Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by fatbuff, Sep 14, 2009.
The 1-10 season in 1984 was largly due to Eddie Reinhardt. The guy was fighting for his life, and didn't even come home from an Oregon hospital untill the season was almost over. The team was distracted and really didn't care for football mich at the time.
Mac's teams improved every year with the exception of that season.
Hawks teams seem to be regressing each year.
I remember a lot of parallels, and some differences. Mac took over a program that like the one Hawk took over had virtually no speed, no difference makers, was losing virtually every recruiting battle in state and out. We had seen some flashes but at 1-10 the fans who were left were decidedly unhappy. We had lost some games to teams that we thought had no business beating us.
Some of the games were lost on what looked like inexplicable lack of fundamentals, stupid mistakes, etc.
Of course there were no internet message boards at the time but the talk shows, the newspapers, and most of the fans could not wait to get Mac out of town and get a "real coach" in here.
Mac had recruited a lot of young talent but so far it wasn't showing on the field, we had already lost some guys to various reasons. Mac could have held a meeting of his supporters in a small room and still had chairs left over.
A big difference was that even though very few believed him Mac always communicated a confidence that he had a plan and was working towards it. I remember dealing with some of the players who had an attitude that "we are just around the corner, this is going to work" Mac later proved that to be the case.
If you have read some of my postings since this weeks disaster you will see that I am kind of ambiguous about this whole deal. I believe that under all the disapointment and anger that the potential exist for this team to break out this year or next and be very good under Hawk.
Unlike the Mac years, I think to do so Hawk is going to have to look closely at himself and make some changes in how he does things, how he manages his staff, how he uses players. If he is willing to do so then I see the potential for this team to break out. If he can't or won't then our future is one of dissapointment.
By the way even though recruiting was not as closely followed, a lot of consensus was that Mac's classes after the 83 and 84 seasons were a dissapointment. Turns out that they were a lot better than some outside "experts" thought in terms of results.
Eddie Reinhardt was a distraction but not even close to the reason for the 1-10.
I disagree about your last part, I talked to a lot of players on that team who said they weren't even focused on football after the Oregon game.
I don't see this as a difference. Hawkins is getting hammered for saying the same things.
the team was very dispirited as leash notes. expectations at the time were still very low... no one except the die-hards expected CU to do anything at all. but, among the faithful, there was some modest hope that 84 would be an ok year (by those days' standards, that meant a winning record).
when reinhardt got hurt, it was almost like the whole program and the fans went "oh no, here we go again."
it is hard to compare it to now because the program was at such a low point. being ranked, appearing in bowl games (let alone winning them), and all the rest seemed pretty remote back then. expectations were so low. i think a lot of the diehards were upset with the 84 season but there were reassuring tones coming from within the program. and recruiting went really well after that (altho no one followed it and analyzed it like now). some folks close to the program (as i remember it) felt something was building. i haven't heard too many people say that they see signs of progress now after these 2 losses...
I will agree with you for a game or two but I talked with players on a pretty regular basis that whole season. As the season went on I remember them being frustrated and pissed that their hard work wasn't resulting in wins. At the time they seemed pretty focused on the games but it just wasn't resulting in wins. Eddie was a very popular guy on the team and they did keep him in mind but the team just couldn't seem to get over the hump despite their efforts. Some that I talked to wanted to win for him and used it as a motivator. I did sense at the time a feeling among the players I talked with that eventually they were going to get it done. I am not in contact with players now but sense a less of that sentiment.
There was no internet (Al Gore hadn't invented it yet)...so the only thing you could do was listen to radio, read papers and talk to your buddies and guard the keg.
I agree with you completely on this issue. There was some talk outside of the hardcore fans of de-emphasing the program. Joing the WAC, go DII or worse. The so-called scandal under Barnett was a hit to the program but nothing like the total disaray that Fairbanks created. Prior to the scandal Barnett had kept the team pretty respectable, Neu had some high rankings and of course Mac won the MNC and had some top 5 finishes. Coming off of the Fairbanks era I think most fans just wanted us to win some games and be respectable. I don't give the injury as much credit as you guys do for the poor record and if fact seem to remember that we were doing pretty well in that Oregon game up to the injury but I don't think it made more than a 2-3 game difference on the season.
I do sense a significant upgrade in the talent of the program but agree with you that the overall sense of going in the right direction right now isn't there like it was with people in the program under Mac
Was there global warming yet?
Frankly, I cannot remember enough about that year to comment, I must have been pretty ripped. We all know Mac's hallmarks were assembling a great staff and a masterful recruiter. Hawk has yet to prove he can do either.
At least 4 of my high school teammates were in the 83 & 84 recruiting classes and they all expected to start winning now. They told everyone that Mac was the right guy and CU was changing.
I don't think it's just that we are losing but the way we are losing. My freshman year was 86. Mac's team went 0-4 in non-conference play and lost at home to CSU (sound familiar?). But even in those losses, I remember feeling like it was close. In Hawk's words, a little thing here or a little thing there. I remember blowing a couple of games late.
These two losses are completely different from what I felt and saw back then. I've been making parallels with the early Mac years up until now but they are finished.
Making bold predictions and saying all the right things... fine. I need to see something on the field, however, that gives me the feeling we're on the right path. I simply don't have that right now.
Has Mac commented on the current state of affairs? I haven't heard anything...
I also remember Mac and a lot of the players being seriously bothered by the losses, even some games that they had no business being bothered by. I look at Hawk and I may be completely wrong because now it is from a distance and he doesn't seem to be truly bothered by losing. Mac took each loss inside, Hawk just takes them in-stride, huge difference.
The 84 team wasn't that bad, they lost a lot of games close. They were ahead of a monster Nebraska team in the fourth quarter 7-3 before they cracked.
One parallel with now, for what its worth: Mac used three different offenses in his first three years, before he went to the wishbone for the 85 season. He used the multiple I (that Michigan and almost everybody else used) in 82, the one-back in 83, and the pro set in 84. Jon Embree caught 60 some balls that year, if I remeember correctly.
The 1980 season was far worse than 84.
I was asking myself the same question today. I have not heard anything, and the silence is deafening.
Nice try, but there's a reason you haven't gotten more responses. When you ask a question of the board's old timers, you need to do it like this:
Thread Title should be something that will get their attention like, "FREE BREAKFAST COUPON FOR COUNTRY KITCHEN BUFFET INSIDE"
Then, say what you've got say, but make sure they can read it like so:
What was the 1984 season like when Mac seemingly was going backwards with a 1-10 season? We all know now that Mac was bringing in talent, but it wasnt yet paying dividends.
***KEEP READING TO FIND YOUR COUPON***
How did the '84 team look? Are there any parallels to what is going on right now with how the team is playing?
Then, do not post the coupon, do not apologize for the coupon. Just let it go. They will read and re-read your entire post to make sure they understood correctly about the Country Kitchen Buffet coupon and to see if it was maybe buried somewhere in there. These re-reads will dramatically increase their reading comprehension of your post. They may be a bit cantankerous when they respond (since there was not, in fact, a Country Kitchen Buffet free breakfast coupon), but respond they will.
That's some quality ****ing work right there. Good job, Nik.
What hurts Hawk is that we live in an age of 24/7 news coverage and numerous websites devoted to covering college athletics which can really enrage the fan base when everything goes to hell (like it has).. Patience isn't something that's accepted in the Div 1 football.
Hawk also has to deal with bigger expectations than what Mac did. The program is much different after Mac in terms of expectations than it was before Mac. We had nowhere near the amount of success that we did under Mac and 2 years of Slick Rick then we did before Mac. We had a few good seasons, couple of great ones but nowhere near the 8 stretch we had in the late 80's to 96. Many of the fans of today grew up with those teams which further raises expectations of what Hawk should be doing. If it was done before, why can't it be done again?
2 - 14 on the road, anybody know Fairbanks road record?
Have you ever had a personal conversation with Mac? He was the most personal and inspiring man I've ever talked to. He has a presence about him that made you feel like you could climb Everest and not be tired. The reason why Hawk is having problems saying the same things as Mac is that he's not saying them the way Mac does.
So if I print out this post can I take it to Country Kitchen for a free breakfast?? Because that would be nice... :smile:
Two things make up BIG DIFFERENCES between 1984 and 2009 teams and their situations.
1) The 1984 team played BEFORE the 1989-2002 time period, and the 2009 team is playing AFTER that time period. CU had a little taste of glory in the 1960s and '70s, but mostly the CU program was fighting disinterest in 1984. There wasn't a groundswell of dissatisfaction with the Buffs from fans. There was, ummm, what's new? Let's go skiing.
2) There was no Internet, and the ADs didn't have astronomical budgets -- and the pressures that come with them -- because of TV money back then. The Internet gives fans a lot more of a voice. (Think people in the AD doesn't read the web? Think again). And our culture is a lot less patient with losing. We want to win now.
pS: Buffnik, that was dang funny about the Country Buffet!
Not to be augmentative but I have felt the same way after brief conversations with Hawkins.
That's a fair point. I've never talked with coach Hawk personally so I guess I can't really make a true comparison so you could be correct.
I just know I've never met a man like Mac before or since. He was truly gifted in his ability to inspire.
NO doubt and you are not the first person to say that. Trying to compare the 2 is not fair to either man. The only point I was orginally trying to make is that Hawkins is send the same message Mac was in 84, that good things were close to happening if we stayed the course.
It's just nobody is buying it from Hawkins.
This is a disturbing sentence..... What did you augment?
chuck won two road games in the three years he was with the buffs...he won seven games overall...
I hate it when my fingers don't connect to my brain.
Separate names with a comma.