Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Hugegroove, Feb 6, 2014.
Why are there better days ahead?
There isn't. We're going to suck forever.
-Good coaching staff with good evaluation and development skills
-Teams rise and fall all the time in college football
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What demonstrates that the coaching staff is good, or that it has good evaluation skills or good development skills?
Gillam evaluated, coached, developed
Awuzie evaluated, coached, developed
Adkins evaluated, coached, developed
Keeney (evaluated early and fought off late suitors)
Dotson (evaluated early and failed to fight off a rising program with shiny toys)
Rodriguez (evaluated early and fought off FSU, LSU, and almost UT. UT was the one school we could not have offer because of his family history)
i feel a scolding about sample size coming!
Their history of coaching D1 football suggests they are good coaches, then in year one they won all the games they were supposed to and we saw some big strides mentally on the field in that they kept fighting till the end. In this cycle alone they spotted Miller, Keeney, Franke, Dotson, Rodriguez, Lopez and a few others I'm missing who gathered other BCS offers yet they we're discovered at camps by the staff beforehand. You can then add in Gillam and Adkins from last year. SJSU also has a decent amount of kids in the NFL who were lightly recruited.
You could attempt to educate yourself, but I'm guessing you're going to continue to be a negative douchebag.
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He has had 1 year! That is the only sample size!
Let's see. Gillam was a great find. No argument there. Same with the other two. Not sure how much you can talk about development after one year, however. There is also a lot of opportunity for freshman to contribute at CU, so there should be no surprise that some actually do.
Keeney. Hasn't played yet.
Dotson and Rodriguez. I'm sort of mystified by what your point is here by listing two players who didn't enroll at CU? That he's great at finding players a little early who end up going to better football schools by the time signing day rolls around? Maybe this is because he's ahead of the curve, or maybe it's because these players are lower down the boards of other schools who have more options. In either case, if were truly that far ahead of the curve, these guys would be going to CU, and not elsewhere. It looks to me more like that the story with these guys is that they are strong 3* players who were also evaluated as strong 3* players by other schools and ended up going to other schools. I see the value of identifying the diamonds in the rough if you are catching unknown players and getting them on board and they deliver. But if these guys went to other schools, they aren't really diamonds in the rough because other schools knew about them, too.
Awuzie, Adkins, and Gillam were excellent contributors for Freshmen. There's no denying that. I'm not sure if that means that it's time to declare that the staff is great at evaluating players. I'm also not sure how it could possibly make sense to talk about the development of players who have only played one year of college football so far: we actually don't know how they will develop. Sometimes guys step in as freshmen and contribute a little bit and people assume that they are going to keep growing as players along a certain trajectory just because they were good relative to their class early on in their college careers. We heard all of the time with Hawkins that it was a certainty that the team would get better because the team had young starters. Guess what? Most of those guys never really got better. I'm not saying that that will happen here, but we don't actually have much information so far with respect to how good the staff is at developing players.
Respectable campaigns by three freshmen isn't enough to declare that the coaching staff is good yet, sorry, especially when the recruiting class that's coming in next year is as suspicious as it is (ranked last in the conference by three of the four major services).
Actually there are several things to evaluate the staff on so far.
-- composition of assistant coaching staff, particularly given the resources that were available and their previous compensation levels
-- transition class
-- first year performance on the field
-- second recruiting class
The first item I won't discuss because it's already been discussed at great length here.
The transition class appeared to have three good players in it. That's a decent outcome.
First year performance included some ups and some downs. We went 4-8 and 1-8 in conference. That's pretty middle of the road, with respect to expectations, particularly when you factor in the circumstances with the Fresno State game.
Second recruiting class is more disappointing than anything else. Last in conference by most measures.
So yeah, there is more than one avenue through which to evaluate the coaching staff at this point. I'm not arguing that they're bad. But I think it's premature to say that they're good, too. I see bad recruiting and I see arguments from fans about the coaches are doing a really great job at the things that don't come through in the record on the football field or in the rankings of the recruiting class. Does this remind anyone of anything?
Gillam was a AA, pretty sure you can talk about development on that one.
Neither has any of the 2014 class so if we're on that train of thought everyone talking about recruiting should just STFU. Keeney was held onto for dear life by the staff after Keeney, who just started playing TE, destroyed some 4* TE's with offers everywhere at camps. Do 5*'s and 4*'s have a higher success chance? Sure, also depends on what you define success as but if you're going to go with the "hasn't played yet" line then stop bitching.
Dotson and Rodriguez are examples of the coaching staff finding talent. It's unfortunate that we lost both though. We held onto Rodriguez when LSU and Florida State came calling, Texas was a very tough one to win with that being his dream school and since his grandpa went there. What you are ignoring here is players like Franke who picked up five Pac 12 offers or Fields who we beat multiple BCS schools out for or Wiefels where UO tried to get him in on a OV after he committed. You can also look at a guy like Watanabe who also had a lot of BCS school attention following the state title game. You can add in guys like Bennion or Shaver who Utah tried to poach after they committed. OSU and Utah tried to get in on Lee after he committed. OU and ASU tried to get in on Matthewes after he committed. Witherspoon is a potential good find as well, kid who was 5'9" as a senior in HS who grew to 6'3" but kept his fluid hips and speed.
Hawkins was also so full of **** his eyes were brown. MacIntyre, while he uses coach speak and sometimes sounds like Hawkins, goes in depth much more than Hawkins ever did. If you watched the practices from last Spring and compared it to the end of the season the difference is night and day.
The staff signed nine of their own recruits in the 2013 class...
-Connor Center (RS in 2013)
-Jordan Gehrke (Did not see field last year but too early to close the book)
-Tedric Thompson (saw the field more and more as the year went on and improved every week
-Chidobe Awuzie (started every game, did solid as a freshman at nickle)
-Mike Adkins (we know what he did)
-Kenneth Olugbode (pushed for a lot of PT last year, looks like he's going to get a lot next season)
-Ryan Severson (meh on this one, would like to see him at S going forward and not returning kicks)
-Markeis Reed (RS in 2013)
-Addison Gillam ('nuff said)
Three out of nine contributing in big ways as freshman is pretty good number, three of seven since two RS'ed.
Tini is Tiniing really hard today.
Whatever am I thinking looking at the whole situation!
Tini, you'll feel better if you accept that some folks are not going to choose to be as optimistic as you are and you aren't going to change their opinions. Let them have their beliefs and you maintain your beliefs and time will tell who's right and who's wrong.
I fully realize that, I just wish some of the people who bitch a lot would actually take the time to educate themselves
Lol, didn't realize you were the only educated one... Some of us have only been following this game since you were riding your razor around the cul de sac
Who did WSU pick up in their class that made them better than yours? :wow:
I put you hippies at 10th or 11th.
Ive been following this game since Liver was riding Tini's mom around the cul de sac.
If you'd look at the whole situation I'd have no issues with your posts on it. It's aggravating when people are choosing to select Dotson, ER, and Ballage out as guys we lost to BCS schools and people implying those were the only three commits we had that received other BCS offers/interest, all I am saying is that is not true and we lost some and won some this cycle. I'm not saying this class is impressive or anything, it's clearly not but we did get better, we got faster and more athletic at the skill positions and we overall improved our team talent IMO. I don't care if people don't like the class, that's fine and I understand it, I'm just asking for people to look at both sides of it. You have to start somewhere with the foundation, this is that class, MacIntyre stayed true to his philosophy and signed versatile kids who can play multiple positions depending on how their body changes in the next few years. We didn't close the gap with the top teams, or even the middle teams, but the bottom four classes (OSU, CU, UU, WSU) are all pretty similar classes.
Hey, I have been watching the buffs more than two weeks.
I just picked up the game of the college football around 2008 or so. Tini's insights are much appreciate. Apparently hauling in the last placed conference recruiting class is a good thing. Who knew!
I don't think cull de sac means what I think it means.
How many BCS teams are there?
What is the ranking of our class?
I love the development this staff has shown on several players. I love the fact that our training staff is keeping guys on the field and healthy. I like the fact that our guys appear to be getting the academics handeled. Without all of these attributes were headed towards a dark place.
We are already in a dark place :lol:
The way you feel about people focusing on losing Dotson, ER, and Ballage is how I feel every time I hear you point to Addison Gillam as the reason why I shouldn't be concerned about our recruiting results.
I'm glad we held onto guys like Keeney and Franke, but I'm not going to do cartwheels for our coaches hanging on to kids that had been committed to CU for 6+ months when a few other schools started giving them a look at the 11th hour when they had to move on to their plan B or C. That's their job.
I've rarely pointed to Gillam alone as evidence. You're confusing me with someone else. I've been staying away from Gillam because it's been discussed to death.
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This thread alone. Twice in one post in fact.
Separate names with a comma.