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Recruiting sites

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by DBT, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    What should be done about the abuses that these sites bring to the process? I don't subscribe to them out of principil, although I admit I'm a ****ing hypocrite because I do enjoy the star rating stuff and the free info that trickles out.

    Here is the problem I have with them. The local "reporters" are, in a lot of cases as far as I can tell, also fans of the school in their area. But because they are "reporters" they have unlimited access to the athlete. They call and badger the kids. They try to recruit the kid to the school they represent in many cases. They also partake in negative recruiting against schools that are going after the kids they want to commit to their school.

    This is blatantly wrong and if you heard Hawk speak to the matter, way out of control. So what can be done? Can the NCAA restrict them or would this be considered a violation of free speech? I would like to see these "reporters" fall under the same rule as boosters. Or at least something similar. Maybe schools should be penalized if recruiting site reporters are found to be recruiting and not just asking for information. Whatever, something has to be done.

    The other thing I HATE is the signing day press conference on ESPN. This has also gotten out of control. I don't know what can be done about it, but I'm one that would like to see this practice restricted as much as possible.
     
  2. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    I totally agree with you. The harassment of the kids is totally out of control and the signing day press conferences are out of control. And I'm a bigger hypocrite than you, because I actually subscribe to Rivals.

    As for what can be done about it, here's the issue... the signing day press conferences exist because ESPNU covers them. ESPNU covers them because ESPN has approximately 83,000 hours per day of programming time to fill on all their channels and this is apparently a form of programming people watch. If people don't watch, the press conferences go away. That said, I watched Byron Moore's press conference on ESPNU. :huh:

    The recruiting sites exist because they provide information people will pay for. Like I said, I pay for it, so I'm not judging anybody. But as long as people pay for the info the recruiting guys get by making all those calls, they'll make the calls.

    Can the NCAA get all this under control? I'm not sure how. They can't tell independent web sites or people who they are allowed to call. They can't tell recruits who aren't at NCAA schools who they are allowed to talk to. They can't prohibit sites from publishing this news. Hell, they have a hard enough time controlling when coaches and schools are talking to the kids.

    Basically, I don't see this getting anything but worse until either fans lose interest or it gets so bad that recruits start controlling it themselves by not talking to the reporters or making a show of making their decisions. Nothing to do but get used to it, I guess. :sad1:
     
  3. The Monk

    The Monk Club Member Club Member

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    Im sure the NCAA could require some sort of pre-NCAA waiver making them under their jurisdiction before they actually sign with a school. I don't think it's too bad, most recruits seem to enjoy it, otherwise their phones would be off. Relatively some agressive calling is nowhere near as bad as schools paying their athletes directly or indirectly (rule wise) and I think it would all just be wasted effort. Then again the NCAA loves wasted effort.
     
  4. Skidmark

    Skidmark Flagship of the 12-Pac Club Member

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    The NCAA could consider issuing a guideline document to recruits and highschool coaches that outlines fair and proper recruiting standards. Included in this document is a primer on the benefits of voice mail, e-mail, text messaging and caller ID. The VM or disclaimer measage on the e-mail would say something like, "be advised that the person you are contacting is collecting, storing, and possibly forwarding the content of this communication to the NCAA division of fair recruitment as a measure to protect the interests of the student athlete whom you seek to communicate. The content or record of this communication is being recorded for possible public disclosure."

    Then the NCAA provides recruits and their parents a location where they can forward examples of harassment, or otherwise inapproptiate behavior. Then after NLOI day, this bloated buracracy could enlighten the member schools and the media with evidence of the most flagrant abuses and abusers.

    EDSBS or some other bulletin board might jump on the bandwaggon and offer a Fulmer Cup offshoot that gives out stars to the coaches and recruiting services who distinguish themselves.
     
  5. unbiasedtruth

    unbiasedtruth Well-Known Member

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    what about the so called "junior" days many universities have now. I think it was RDB that mention OU having one (i think their 1st) last week and had 10 HS juniors on campus there as possible recruits, one even verbally committed. The Longhorn's is today and they have 18 kids attending and it was mentioned 10-12 of these 18 will verbal to Texas and we are still 6 month from their senior year of HS starting.

    On part with the coaches... it happens big time here in Texas. Texas, Texas A&M, TTech and other schools try to develop "working" releationships with the Texas HS coaches to gain an inside track.

    The press, or any "news" service is going to be very difficult to control because of the 1st admendment of the Bill of Rights.
     
  6. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    From the recruits I've known and spoken with, this experience mentioned is not true for everyone. What's your source for believing recruiting sites badger kids or try to recruit or negatively recruit kids?

    As with every group (players, coaches, reporters, bloggers, for example), it's hard to say you can characterize an entire group as doing something. There's a lot of variety in ethics and approach.
     
  7. Buffsfan09

    Buffsfan09 Member

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    As long as there are consumers (and hypocrites) demanding the info, someone will try to create a market for it....I love me some capitalism.
     
  8. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I think that what we'll see is more information TO RECRUITS about how to handle and manage their recruitment in the future. A few years back, anyone trying to reach a recruit would have called the home land line, and had to get through the gauntlet of mom and dad before talking to junior. Now, most kids have their own private cell, and have to determine who to talk to and who to ignore.

    They have their own email accounts, and generally are more accessible to coaches and reporters.

    Fewer gatekeepers.

    The only way this will change is if the recruits get more in charge of the process - if their high school coaches or the ncaa or someone is able to educate them on what the boundaries are. Otherwise, the free-for-all continues. Some kids love it, some get overwhelmed, some like it at first, then get fed up. What they need to learn is that they are the only ones who can control it.
     
  9. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

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    Here's a really off-the-wall idea:

    The school could purchase a number of cell phones (with chargers, etc.), say 15-20. When visiting recruits arrive, issue them a phone and have them contact any important family members, girlfriends, etc, back home. Then ask them to turn off their our deivces. This way, those who might really need to contact the recruit (emergency, etc.) could by calling the school issued phone number, and the sites, other coaches, etc., would be left without a way to interrupt the visit.

    Pretty far out in left field, but..........
     
  10. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's just when they are on visits that it's a problem.

    The recruiting sites can hammer a kid at home, school, middle of the night.
    Every school that is recruiting a kid may have a beat site reporter, if there are five schools who have offered, or interested, there may be 10 or more recruiting site writers contacting.

    Some are just looking for a scoop or an update, some really want to sway a kid. Either way, it's a lot of time and attention for the recruit to deal with.
     
  11. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    So, you have not heard Hawk talk about this? About having recruits in for visits who, all the while, are recieving calls and texts from recruiting site "reporters" advising them not to commit to CU? You did not hear the story last year of how the Univ. of Texas Rivals site was actually PAYING a high school coach of Darrell Scott for information on his recruiting?

    Listen, I, as a CU grad (CU-Denver, actually) cannot discuss CU football with a perspective recruit. But a grad working for Rivals as a "reporter" can call them every five minutes and discuss their school.

    "Hey, Billy Bob, this is Herbie Fusker from Rivals. So, how's the recruiting going? Colorado? Really? Man, I heard Hawkins wants to go to the pros next year, why would you consider Colorado? Especially when 'Braska doesn't have much depth at your position and you would have a shot at starting right away?"

    The only thing the NCAA could do would be to penalize the school if such practices are taking place. They would have to treat these "reporters" as boosters. If they get wind of the "reporter" actually recruiting a kid, they penalize the school. Take a scholly or something.
     
  12. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    There is no legal sanction to prevent you from speaking with a recruit. As a donor/booster, you can't buy him lunch, or a car, :smile2:, but you can talk to a recruit.

    I do.

    I don't go out of my way, but I've met several from this year's class.
     
  13. buffwoman526

    buffwoman526 Club Member Club Member

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    Is the NCAA considered state action?
     
  14. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I understand the question, but the NCAA can only hand down sanctions against schools, or against recruits/players that play for NCAA schools.

    Sometimes, if there is a recruiting violation, the recruit is no longer allowed to be recruited by the offending school, so the violation is against the specific school, not the player, even though it limits the player's options.

    Since reporters and recruiting sites aren't part of the NCAA, they can't be punished by the NCAA, either.

    If I didn't understand what you were asking, ask again.
     
  15. buffwoman526

    buffwoman526 Club Member Club Member

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    For first amendment purposes, would the NCAA be considered a governmental entity? My first reaction is no, but I admittedly do not know enough about them and how entwined they are with the government to know if they could restrict the media.

    I also don't know enough about how they limit boosters speech to know if they are allowed, as a non-governmental entity, to limit private speech with those recruits.
     
  16. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Well, yeah, you can talk to them. But, I thought, you cannot actively recruit them. Am I wrong on that?
     
  17. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    As far as the media, so far the NCAA can't do much to restrict their right to do their job of covering college sports. And media (press) has been expanded to include internet writers, bloggers, recruiting sites, and so on. First Amendment rules.

    Boosters can have contact with recruits. I was at a tailgate last season when an acquaintance walked up with a recruit and his family and introduced us.

    (Disclaimer: Recruit was attending the game as guest of CU, but hadn't met up with that group yet. The mutual acquaintance he was with was a family friend of the recruit for years, not someone who was hanging with him for the sole purpose of getting him to CU.)

    The recruit didn't eat or drink anything from our party, but visited with us for a good 20 minutes or so. He seemed fairly aware of what he could and couldn't do, and was careful about what he said. However there was no doubt that the crowd which gathered around was pro-CU, but we did not make a point of saying "come be a buff!" even though our general friendliness made that obvious.

    CU (and most universities) put out compliance information for boosters.
    Here's ours:
    http://www.cubuffs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=4266&SPID=274&DB_OEM_ID=600&ATCLID=264379


    There's a whole section here on boosters having contact with recruits.
    https://admin.xosn.com/pdf4/80773.pdf?SPSID=4266&SPID=274&DB_OEM_ID=600

    You aren't supposed to initiate contact with any recruit for the purpose of getting them to attend a certain school. But if you run into one, you don't have to run the other direction, either.

    Two key points:
    and this is what IS allowed:
     
  18. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    That's what I understand.
     
  19. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    This got me to thinking, how do Rivals/Scout/etc "reporters" get cell phone numbers of the recruits? If they are calling/texting all the time, and the recruit hates it, why did he give them his number in the first place? Or are they getting them some other way?
     
  20. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Can only speak for the handful of kids I know, but the original call is usually just a nice friendly visit, asking for stats, your favorite schools. Nobody knows that first call may turn into a constant relationship.

    When you fill out a player questionnaire for Scout or Rivals, I think there is a place to put in contact email, maybe cell phone too. But email certainly. Anyway, the initial contact from a recruiting site was often an email, saying "hey, would like to do an update on you" with a few questions. Sometimes they said "hey, can you give me a call so I can interview?" and if the recruit does that, 50/50 chance the reporter now has captured his number.

    High school coaches who are looking for attention for their players can also give out private phone numbers (sometimes without thinking.) That happened more than once to a kid I know.

    Have to say that while Hawkins makes the comments about these guys being persistent and calling during visits, negative recruiting, etc. that was not the experience of the few guys I know. AM from Rivals, Kyle Ringo of BDC and Scout and a few others were not those kind of guys. In fact, one kid said that Kyle asked him to call after his visit because he didn't want to interupt the weekend. So they were the opposite of what DH described.

    Of course, I don't know many ***** recruits, these are middle of the road players, and I'm sure it's way different for the top of the top of the top recruits. But I was curious to know about the process and asked the recruits about it. They had a lot more problems with persistent COACHES who wouldn't take no for an answer, not with recruiting site writers.
     
  21. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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  22. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Club Member Club Member

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    Interesting. I guess it's kind of hard to be upset with all the calls, if you are the one giving them the number.
     
  23. Jens1893

    Jens1893 Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Some guys may not even know what they´re getting themselves into when they hand out their cell #.

    I obviously do not know how and if the kids care about their rankings etc. but when someone is nice to me, I am usually inclined to be nice to them. So I guess "one hand washes the other" might be at play here also.
     
  24. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    true that.
     

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