1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Recruiting then and now

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by DBT, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    58,578
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Mac was a great recruiter. But things have changed at good old CU. Or at least they had, so I was wondering if they've been changed again and I just hadn't heard.

    CU has fairly strict admissions requirements. Kids have to meet minimum standards called MAPS . However, CU has exceptions under which they will allow certain kids in at their discretion. The way I understand it is that the school limits the number to about 10% of admissions. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Anyway, with Gordon Gee being very pro-athletics, Mac was able to get many academically challenged kids into school under the "exception." So, say Mac had 20 recruits, 6 might have been admitted this way.

    This all changed after "the scandal." The way I remember it, and correct me if I'm wrong, under Hoffman, the athletic department was told that each program could only allow the school percentage of their recruits to get in under the "exception" or whatever they call it. So, lets say Hawkins has 20 scholarships to give. Only 2 of those could be a special admission.

    Listening to Woody Paige on the radio, he said he'd heard that Hawkins is VERY frustrated with CU admission policy and the admissions department. Some of that stemming from the Simmons thing.

    So, for those "in the know." Am I way off base on this? Is there any chance in hell that the policy might change?
     
  2. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,658
    Likes Received:
    303
    CU administration doesn't want a football factory. They think fans should be lucky to have a team.
     
  3. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    9,868
    Likes Received:
    271
    Cal has a 6% of each freshman class "exception" rule...which is how many football players are admitted (Neu was complaining in the off-season about Cal admitting players he couldn't admit at UCLA). don't know anything or ever heard of such a thing at CU. not saying it doesn't exist i've just never heard about the 10%.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,747
    Likes Received:
    16,458
    Hawkins did pull in the #15 recruiting class (Rivals ranking) in 2008 after a 6-7 season. While it would be nice if CU Admissions would allow a couple more exceptions every year, it's not like it's that big of an issue like some (including Hawk) make it out to be.
     
  5. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    58,578
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    OK, nik. Say you are a top notch up and coming coach. CU calls you. And you interview them and find out that you can only sign assistants to a month by month contract. You can't guarantee them even a one year contract. You can't guarantee them even a buyout if you fire their boss. Then you tell the top notch coach that, no, you can only sign one or two "exceptions" a year. Now, remember, you are one of the guys talked about on all the web sites. Do you sign with CU or do you go to "LAIU"? That is, do you go to "Let Anybody In University."
     
  6. wsp4820

    wsp4820 Sally Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,234
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Just curious, but what would the ranking be if you pulled out players that didn't end up getting in to school?
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,742
    Likes Received:
    4,747
    Everyone got into school for that class. Kotoa, Wallace, Davis, and Blackmon have since left, but they all initially made it in.
     
  8. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,747
    Likes Received:
    16,458
    I don't know how big of a deal the assistant coach thing is. It probably keeps us from being able to attract a Orgeron, Tenuta or Chow level guy. But we wouldn't pay the price tag for one of those guys anyway, so it may be that the point is moot and assistant pay scale is the real issue.

    On the exceptions thing, it definitely hurts in some cases. For example, the rumor is that Urban Meyer would have accepted the Notre Dame job if they had given in to his request for 2 academic exceptions per year. They refused and Florida has won big while seeing the academic reputation of its university climb significantly.

    So, yeah, there are drawbacks. But I just don't see them as deal breakers for attracting a hot coaching prospect. Neuheisel, Barnett and Hawkins were all top guys on the market when we pulled them in. It may not be a top 10 job, but it's still a top 30 job and there aren't a lot of those available every year.
     
  9. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    58,578
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    The trick is to bring in good young talent. So, recruiting top young mind to the coaching staff is what you'd have to do. Seems like Hawkins has, instead, gone after old "has beens." But it is a big issue at CU, I think.
     
  10. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    56,967
    Likes Received:
    4,979
    errrr... Keisau and Hagan (and before them, Grimes.. Hell, look what grimes has done at Auburn..) definitely DO NOT fit the "old, has beens.." idea. It's been a mix with Hawk, which I agree with for the most part. However, the Boise St. crew has definitely not been working out... Jury is still out on Denver Johnson, but so far, not so good.
     
  11. TheRoyale90

    TheRoyale90 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    17
    I don't understand these people. Do they not like money? A top football program would bring in a lot of money to buy microscopes and fund womyn's studies.
     
  12. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    58,578
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Well, people here like to compare Hawkins to Mac. The fact is, Mac, and I love the guy, was able to recruit under different rules. So was Neuhiesel and, until the scandal, Barnett. Hawkins doesn't get to recruit under the same standards. Add to that the resurgence of the Texas and Cal schools, who get the best talent from their respective states, and any Colorado coach is at much more of a disadvantage compared to previous regimes. Remember, Mac was HUGE in Cal and Texas. The only good thing is that Colorado high school football has gotten much better in the last 20 years. So, the in state talent is a lot better than in the Mac years.
     
  13. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Somebody back me here, 'cause money only confuses me....

    But doesn't football revenue go back into the athletic department?

    And really, CU football hasn't really bolstered womyn's studies since the Barnett remarks regarding Katie, and even that fell under the category of "unintended consequences."
     
  14. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    58,578
    Likes Received:
    4,717
    Barnett made remarks regarding Katie? Katie who? WTF are you talking about? :wow:
     
  15. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,747
    Likes Received:
    16,458
    Not the 85 scholarships a year (plus all the schollies from non-revenue sports). Those aren't free. The AD has to pay the school.

    And then there's enrollment and donor gifts. When football is doing well, both of those go up.
     
  16. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    198
    P.T. Gates didn't get in.
     
  17. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    39,742
    Likes Received:
    4,747
    He was in the 2007 class. We never signed him to another LOI after he was initially rejected.
     
  18. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    7,411
    Likes Received:
    198
    Gotcha.
     
  19. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    12
    What about other schools with tougher admissions requirements like Texas, Florida, Georgia - how do they get so many great athletes admitted? They’re not all geniuses. And if those schools are out of our league in terms of athletics, what about North Carolina, Stanford, etc...are they just more 'flexible' in working with the HC to get players in?

    I'm proud of my Colorado education, but let's be honest - there are far more schools with tougher academic admission requirements that are still getting great athletes in...is it better recruiting? Is it a higher 'exception' rate? Is it an admissions office that wants to help the AD?

    Something just doesn't seem to fit...
     
  20. aik

    aik Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,868
    Likes Received:
    623
    I can't speak for every school you listed, but Texas public schools are a joke. I am surprised many of these recruits get the minimum SAT/ACT needed, but as far as high school transcripts go you would need a combination of learning disability and apathy not to qualify in that department. 95+ percent of UT's recruits are in state, the majority are from public high schools and the majority of those are football factories. It's not exactly a gauntlet for a player in that respect. Back to my standardized test point, how these schools prepare them to get a worthy score on those I'll never know.
     
  21. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36,156
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    I think Mac got a lot of kids in that would not get in today. I think the standards are higher or the rules are being enforced more clearly. If there is a struggle behind the scenes between academia and athletics then the more the team loses the more we all lose. I believe a good football team is good for enrollment.
     
  22. Highflyer

    Highflyer Moderator Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    11,418
    Likes Received:
    442
    and add in OU as well. this is the number one reason why recruiting is more challenging. Period.
     
  23. fatbuff

    fatbuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,680
    Likes Received:
    674
    Mizzou has been cleaning up in TX as well.
     
  24. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,313
    Likes Received:
    902
    Would it be fair to say that there are also more football recruits from Cali and Tex these days? Football has grown quite a bit in the last 20 years, I'm thinking that there's plenty to go around. It's not like 3* and 4* kids aren't even interested in CU, we just have to beat out the ASUs and Oregons of the world for them. We aren't going to beat out UCLA and USC on a lot of kids, but we can win a few battles and that's all that we need.
     

Share This Page