Ringo: Not all fans are upset CU might have to join MWC

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

What is really sad is, I don't think CU would be all that competitive in a league with BYU, Utah, TCU, Boise State, etc. in it. I don't think CU is better than ANY of those four teams right now, and CU lost to Colorado State last year...

Certainly it would be nice to land in the PAC 10 and get the money that would come with it. But I seriously doubt CU will be a regular competitor in the PAC 16 or whatever it would be called. CU might beat Texas/OU/USC/Oregon/etc. once every five (5) or six (6) years, but that'd be about the most we could legitimately expect. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a division where we have to play OU and Texas EVERY year.

 

[leftybuff]

In so many words...yes. Colorado in the MWC would make it a Colorado/Denver driven conference. Throw in an annual nationally televised championship game in Denver and a BCS birth and I just don't understand all the outrage.

I can totally understand wanting to play with the "Big Boys", but why do it at the expense of being in a PAC-16 division where everything is again dominated by Texas. If I were a Buff's fan I would be sick an tired of dealing with a Texas program that has no interest in the success or failure of the CU program (or any program for that matter) so long as they get their inequitably payout.

There are five "real" conferences IMO. ACC, Big 10, Pac 10, Big 8 and SEC. The SWC was before it died. The Big 12, while not having the history, at least had traditional powerhouses OU, UT and NU to give it the juice of the SWC and the Big 8. Moving to some new conference made up of the teams that couldn't get into a "real" conference is a let down for a team that was once a "have". Sure, a MWC/B12 KU, KjSU, ISU, CU, UU, BYU, AFA, Boise St. conference looks good on paper, but it's still just the best of the "have nots". JMO.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

If it doesn't work out, and we do have to form a new league, I'd make sure that any team in the league would have to meet some pretty strict guidelines in terms of athletic budgets & stadium capacity. We can't have a bunch of also-rans.

:lol: Your just trying to keep CSU out.

So lets say MU NU join ND in a new 14 team Big 10 while UT A&M OU and OSU join the Pac 10. That leaves CU, ISU, KU, KSU, and Baylor. There are not many teams at that point to chose from. This is the nightmare scenario for us. I'm think ND will not allow NU and MU to join the Big 10 in which case we wouldn't be that bad off.

 

[buffs04]

I can't believe the retards in local media here think it is a good idea for CU athletics to take an ENORMOUS step backwards and join a minor conference. What is wrong with these idiots? Only here...

 

[sackman]

:lol: Your just trying to keep CSU out.

Actually, just the opposite. I would want them to commit to being a player. Either in or out. There is potential at CSU, but their admin makes ours look downright fanatical.

 

[JimmyBuff]

What is really sad is, I don't think CU would be all that competitive in a league with BYU, Utah, TCU, Boise State, etc. in it. I don't think CU is better than ANY of those four teams right now, and CU lost to Colorado State last year...

Certainly it would be nice to land in the PAC 10 and get the money that would come with it. But I seriously doubt CU will be a regular competitor in the PAC 16 or whatever it would be called. CU might beat Texas/OU/USC/Oregon/etc. once every five (5) or six (6) years, but that'd be about the most we could legitimately expect. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a division where we have to play OU and Texas EVERY year.

For a competitive standpoint CU would be best in

1. Big 12 stays intact
2. Pac 12 expansion with Utah and CU
3. Pac 16


And you are right, we would be a middle of the pack Mountain West team as currently constructed.

 

[Unleash Hell]

What is really sad is, I don't think CU would be all that competitive in a league with BYU, Utah, TCU, Boise State, etc. in it. I don't think CU is better than ANY of those four teams right now, and CU lost to Colorado State last year...

Certainly it would be nice to land in the PAC 10 and get the money that would come with it. But I seriously doubt CU will be a regular competitor in the PAC 16 or whatever it would be called. CU might beat Texas/OU/USC/Oregon/etc. once every five (5) or six (6) years, but that'd be about the most we could legitimately expect. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a division where we have to play OU and Texas EVERY year.

CU will be back again regardless of what conference we are in. We have a proud history that has seen pockets of success and failure, that trend will continue. The pocket of failure will continue as long as the current regime is here, however a good coach and more money in the Pac is a good start on catching up again. Don't be a dumb ass.

 

[sackman]

The idea that CU will suck as bad as it currently does for eternity is absurd. We suck because our head coach is a bumbling moron. Eventually, we'll get a decent coach and we'll be back in the mix of things. That's the way it works in college football. Every team that is at the top now (USC, OSU, UT, OU, Alabama, Florida) did, at one time or another, suck eggs. Historical powerhouses like ND & Michigan are having their troubles now, too. It's cyclical. We'll emerge from this at some point. The question before us now is where do we want to be when we do emerge? To me, the answer is simple - the Pac. It gives us greater exposure and revenues than what we have now, and what we could possibly hope to get in our current conference.
I believe the Big 12 in it's current form is dead. Mizzou and Nebbish are all but gone, and CU is just waiting by the phone for the call to come in. UT is trying it's level best to gum up the works, but in the end, I believe they'll be unsuccessful and will have to make a decision as to whether to go to the Pac or to solidify it's own power in the Big 12 by adding replacing CU, MU, and NU with schools it can control (read: Houston, TCU, Rice, SMU). UT will, I believe, choose to keep the watered down Big 12 with their hand-picked additions, and CU will go with UU to the Pac.

This is what I'm hoping, anyway. That's the best scenario I can think of.

 

[SINKRATZ]

What is really sad is, I don't think CU would be all that competitive in a league with BYU, Utah, TCU, Boise State, etc. in it. I don't think CU is better than ANY of those four teams right now, and CU lost to Colorado State last year...

Certainly it would be nice to land in the PAC 10 and get the money that would come with it. But I seriously doubt CU will be a regular competitor in the PAC 16 or whatever it would be called. CU might beat Texas/OU/USC/Oregon/etc. once every five (5) or six (6) years, but that'd be about the most we could legitimately expect. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a division where we have to play OU and Texas EVERY year.

It amazes me how people look at the past 4 years of Colorado football and assume we are doomed to fail forever. There have been a lot more good years than bad years in the last 25 years of Buff football, so the defeatist attitude surrounding our prospects going forward is really what is sad to me.

If we're willing to forgo $20million a year and join a mid-major because we don't want to play OU and UT every year, then we're a bunch of pu**ies and the Pac SHOULD go after Baylor.

Instead why don't we take the payday, invest in the program, recruit like crazy, and get better. Then maybe one day I can hear UT bitch about having to play OU and CU every year.

 

[Junction]

CU will be back again regardless of what conference we are in. We have a proud history that has seen pockets of success and failure, that trend will continue. The pocket of failure will continue as long as the current regime is here, however a good coach and more money in the Pac is a good start on catching up again. Don't be a dumb ass.

:yeahthat:

Let's not forget, people, that 8 1/2 years ago we were lamenting an interception against Fresno State that kept us out of the national championship game. 8 1/2 years ago. Now we're actually supposed to want to run and hide in the MWC because we can't possibly hope to compete with the "big boys". **** that ****. People give DBT crap, but he's never advocated accepting that we can never be more than a mediocre, second tier program again. If we allow this kind of defeatist thinking to take over this program, we really are ****ed. It will do the kind of long-term damage Hawkins can't even conceive of doing...

 

[SuperiorBuff]

In so many words...yes. Colorado in the MWC would make it a Colorado/Denver driven conference. Throw in an annual nationally televised championship game in Denver and a BCS birth and I just don't understand all the outrage.

I can totally understand wanting to play with the "Big Boys", but why do it at the expense of being in a PAC-16 division where everything is again dominated by Texas. If I were a Buff's fan I would be sick an tired of dealing with a Texas program that has no interest in the success or failure of the CU program (or any program for that matter) so long as they get their inequitably payout.

What is being completely overlooked with this argument is that there is a very real possibility that the BCS dissolves with major realignment. If this happens, the (non- Big 4) mid-major conferences will have absolutely no say or shot at a national title - EVER. They will basically be forced down to D2 or to create their own sub Big 4 division.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

CU will be back again regardless of what conference we are in. We have a proud history that has seen pockets of success and failure, that trend will continue. The pocket of failure will continue as long as the current regime is here, however a good coach and more money in the Pac is a good start on catching up again. Don't be a dumb ass.

I can certainly appreciate that CU has a good historical record, and is among the top 20 programs of all times when it comes to wins. But nobody gives a **** about what happened 50+ years ago. (If they did, conferences would be beating down Army and Navy's doors) Don't overstate CU's successes. CU has been a "premier" team only occasionally, and certainly never consistently. Since Colorado joined major conference football in 1947 (63 years ago) - the Buffs have won exactly SIX (6) conference championships. Compare that with Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Texas A&M, etc. Aside from a few terrific years in the McCartney era, one great year in the Barnett era, and a couple other years - Colorado hasn't even been the best team in it's own conference.

I'm not saying Colorado is going to be in the dumps of the Pac ____. I'm just saying I certainly wouldn't expect Colorado to WIN the Pac ___ anymore than I don't expect Colorado to win the Big 12. Colorado just DOESN'T devote the energy, resources, facilities, etc. into creating a big time football program. If Colorado wants to compete / win a conference championship -- they will be better equipped to do so in a conference with the likes of CSU, Air Force, Boise State, etc. than in a conference with Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, etc.

 

[Junction]

**** it. Let's just drop football entirely. Folsom would be a bitching lacrosse stadium...

 

[Unleash Hell]

I can certainly appreciate that CU has a good historical record, and is among the top 20 programs of all times when it comes to wins. But nobody gives a **** about what happened 50+ years ago. (If they did, conferences would be beating down Army and Navy's doors) Don't overstate CU's successes. CU has been a "premier" team only occasionally, and certainly never consistently. Since Colorado joined major conference football in 1947 (63 years ago) - the Buffs have won exactly SIX (6) conference championships. Compare that with Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Texas A&M, etc. Aside from a few terrific years in the McCartney era, one great year in the Barnett era, and a couple other years - Colorado hasn't even been the best team in it's own conference.

I'm not saying Colorado is going to be in the dumps of the Pac ____. I'm just saying I certainly wouldn't expect Colorado to WIN the Pac ___ anymore than I don't expect Colorado to win the Big 12. Colorado just DOESN'T devote the energy, resources, facilities, etc. into creating a big time football program. If Colorado wants to compete / win a conference championship -- they will be better equipped to do so in a conference with the likes of CSU, Air Force, Boise State, etc. than in a conference with Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Oregon, etc.

facepalm!

When did I ever say anything about conf championships? And good for your sooners, good for them! Why don't you go root for them and only them? Your dumbass is not worth talking to. And don't try to educate me about CU football again, you don't know me or where I've been.

 

[BuffaloSoldier76]

CU will be back again regardless of what conference we are in. We have a proud history that has seen pockets of success and failure, that trend will continue. The pocket of failure will continue as long as the current regime is here, however a good coach and more money in the Pac is a good start on catching up again. Don't be a dumb ass.

This.

Some of you guys are being EXTREMELY short sighted about this whole thing. Yes, the program is currently down, but that does not mean that we are going to be down forever. As long as we are in a competitive BCS level conference, we're going to have the potential to rebound and get better (AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST). If however we were to move to a Mountain West or other mid-major conference, we would need to downgrade our expectations on a more permanent basis. Utah have gotten relatively lucky that lower rated recruits have panned out and gelled with good coaching to make them nationally relevant recently, but they aren't exactly pulling in the 5 star guys now that they've sniffed some success, are they? BYU and Air Force are niche schools that have a specific draw, and they continue to attain some success based on that niche draw. Unfortunately, CU as a member of the Mountain West would fit more into the mold of a CSU or Wyoming. CU's biggest current draw for recruiting is being able to compete against some of the best athletes in the country because CU is in the Big XII conference. We automatically lose that recruiting advantage if we join the Mountain West, and if we lose that we really only have our history to rely on as something to brag about when we're competing against the other schools in our region. Also, you think we have a hard time getting California and Texas recruits now, just wait until we are in the MWC. Part of the reason we get any of those kids right now is that they are basically guaranteed at least one game a year that their family can all go and see them play without having to travel 1000 miles.

Moving to the MWC would be catastrophic for the University of Colorado, and should only be weighed as an option if our only other options are the WAC and Sun Belt. As long as the PAC-10, Big 10, and Big XII are viable options we shouldn't even be discussing the possibility of a move to a mid-major.

 

[CUBuff98]

**** the MWC.

 

[BuffaloWing]

It amazes me how people look at the past 4 years of Colorado football and assume we are doomed to fail forever. There have been a lot more good years than bad years in the last 25 years of Buff football, so the defeatist attitude surrounding our prospects going forward is really what is sad to me.

If we're willing to forgo $20million a year and join a mid-major because we don't want to play OU and UT every year, then we're a bunch of pu**ies and the Pac SHOULD go after Baylor.

Instead why don't we take the payday, invest in the program, recruit like crazy, and get better. Then maybe one day I can hear UT bitch about having to play OU and CU every year.

Thank you, this is the way I feel too. No matter what conference we end up in, we're going to have to invest some cash and effort to make a change and get things to fall in our favor again. You really need 3 things to happen for your school to be successful: $$$$$, coaching, and an element of luck. This has always been the case. Why not go to the conference that will provide us the cash. We then get ourselves a coach that doesn't require a map, a flashlight, a samuri warrior book and a half empty stadium to find his....quarterback and then all we'd need is a bit of luck. This seems like the easiest way to return to success, even if it does include going through Texas and Oklahoma. I think it will take us LONGER to break this cycle if we go to the MWC because we'd be lacking in the first element to have a successful athletic program. This essentially means we'd be stuck with crappy coaching, which means we'd need a LOT of luck....


Speaking of maps, I too am upset that we don't have a bit of backing from the City of Denver for this expansion. Wouldn't they want the conference basketball tournament here for a week, drawing non-skiers into Denver for their schools for a weekend? Even if it's only once every 4 years or so, that would be quite a revenue generator. I do agree that we could be in a worse position (Iowa State) because we have a pretty good fallback plan, but it really angers me that people prefer to go the MWC.


We need to be crystal clear. Pac 10 needs to be the goal. MWC should be a DISTANT DISTANT DISTANT plan z.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

facepalm!

When did I ever say anything about conf championships? And good for your sooners, good for them! Why don't you go root for them and only them? Your dumbass is not worth talking to. And don't try to educate me about CU football again, you don't know me or where I've been.

No problem. Let me know when you get your ****ing head out of the ground.

 

[BlackNGold]

Sorry, I have not been on the board earlier. I became violently ill when someone suggested that we embrace joining the MWC. That idea makes me want to puke. Any fan that embraces that idea is a scumbag....

This type of attitude shows the depths the current regime has pushed CU athletics down to - and yes I place a lot of the blame at the feet of Mike Bohn.

If something like that would happen - it would end it for me. I would still be a CU fan. I would open the paper on Sunday morning to see how they fared against New Mexico or UNLV but I would not be donating nor spending my time on Saturdays going to games. This would start a downward spiral for CU...the $ would be cut in more than half. That crackerjack coach you are trying to hire would be on half the salary we pay now and we would be in a lower prestige conference. CU had 45,000 in the stands for Missouri last year and did not sell out the Nebraska game. How do you think attendance would fare with MWC? Consistently drawing 32,000 at cut rates.

 

[leftybuff]

Sorry, I have not been on the board earlier. I became violently ill when someone suggested that we embrace joining the MWC. That idea makes me want to puke. Any fan that embraces that idea is a scumbag....

This type of attitude shows the depths the current regime has pushed CU athletics down to - and yes I place a lot of the blame at the feet of Mike Bohn.

If something like that would happen - it would end it for me. I would still be a CU fan. I would open the paper on Sunday morning to see how they fared against New Mexico or UNLV but I would not be donating nor spending my time on Saturdays going to games. This would start a downward spiral for CU...the $ would be cut in more than half. That crackerjack coach you are trying to hire would be on half the salary we pay now and we would be in a lower prestige conference. CU had 45,000 in the stands for Missouri last year and did not sell out the Nebraska game. How do you think attendance would fare with MWC? Consistently drawing 32,000 at cut rates.

Sadly, I have to agree...

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Sorry, I have not been on the board earlier. I became violently ill when someone suggested that we embrace joining the MWC. That idea makes me want to puke. Any fan that embraces that idea is a scumbag....

This type of attitude shows the depths the current regime has pushed CU athletics down to - and yes I place a lot of the blame at the feet of Mike Bohn.

If something like that would happen - it would end it for me. I would still be a CU fan. I would open the paper on Sunday morning to see how they fared against New Mexico or UNLV but I would not be donating nor spending my time on Saturdays going to games. This would start a downward spiral for CU...the $ would be cut in more than half. That crackerjack coach you are trying to hire would be on half the salary we pay now and we would be in a lower prestige conference. CU had 45,000 in the stands for Missouri last year and did not sell out the Nebraska game. How do you think attendance would fare with MWC? Consistently drawing 32,000 at cut rates.

So, really pretty much the same as what CU currently has, right?

CU doesn't have any donations, now.
CU doesn't have that many season ticket holders, now.
CU doesn't invest in their coaching staff, now.
CU doesn't invest in their facilities, now.

CU couldn't / wouldn't invest the money to show that they were committed to big time college football six months ago -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that? The State of Colorado has historically shown that they aren't going to commit anything to the University -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that?

I don't think anyone WANTS Colorado to join the ranks of the MWC. Certainly everyone would like it for Colorado to step up to the plate and act like one of the elite of college football. But they've spent the past sixty years wanting to eat at that table, and when they've been at that table they've never really done anything with it.

I would certainly like to believe that the extra cash generated by a move to the Pac-____ would lead to some better coaching hires, better facilities, etc. but I'm not convinced CU has any REAL interest in becoming a premier, elite, football / athletic department. Their actions over the past few years (and I mean a lot more than just the Hawkins era) make me wonder just how committed to success the athletic department / school really are.

 

[BlackNGold]

Speaking of maps, I too am upset that we don't have a bit of backing from the City of Denver for this expansion. Wouldn't they want the conference basketball tournament here for a week, drawing non-skiers into Denver for their schools for a weekend? Even if it's only once every 4 years or so, that would be quite a revenue generator. I do agree that we could be in a worse position (Iowa State) because we have a pretty good fallback plan, but it really angers me that people prefer to go the MWC.

The City of Denver has no where to have a Basketball Tournament. The Pepsi Center is privately owned - Kroenke Sports - scheduling is tough with both the Nuggets and the Avalanche using the facility. Plus the MWC tourney was in Denver for a couple of years and it was moved for lack of Interest.

Agree with your MWC comment.

 

[JimmyBuff]

...

This type of attitude shows the depths the current regime has pushed CU athletics down to - and yes I place a lot of the blame at the feet of Mike Bohn.

\.

To stick up for Bonehead, it started years before he got here. What Slick Rick said out the door to Washington had a lot of truth to it.

 

[BlackNGold]

So, really pretty much the same as what CU currently has, right?

CU doesn't have any donations, now.
CU doesn't have that many season ticket holders, now.
CU doesn't invest in their coaching staff, now.
CU doesn't invest in their facilities, now.

CU couldn't / wouldn't invest the money to show that they were committed to big time college football six months ago -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that? The State of Colorado has historically shown that they aren't going to commit anything to the University -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that?

I don't think anyone WANTS Colorado to join the ranks of the MWC. Certainly everyone would like it for Colorado to step up to the plate and act like one of the elite of college football. But they've spent the past sixty years wanting to eat at that table, and when they've been at that table they've never really done anything with it.

I would certainly like to believe that the extra cash generated by a move to the Pac-____ would lead to some better coaching hires, better facilities, etc. but I'm not convinced CU has any REAL interest in becoming a premier, elite, football / athletic department. Their actions over the past few years (and I mean a lot more than just the Hawkins era) make me wonder just how committed to success the athletic department / school really are.

You obviously mistaken me for someone else. I have never been in favor of the Pac-10. The Big 12 was much more upside than the PAC 10. CU right now runs about 5th or 6th in revenues in the Conference from Football....to say they don't have any donations is incorrect - but donations will drop in half in the MWC.

 

[Junction]

I would certainly like to believe that the extra cash generated by a move to the Pac-____ would lead to some better coaching hires, better facilities, etc. but I'm not convinced CU has any REAL interest in becoming a premier, elite, football / athletic department. Their actions over the past few years (and I mean a lot more than just the Hawkins era) make me wonder just how committed to success the athletic department / school really are.

So what you're hoping is that they'll prove their lack of commitment by jumping to a second rate conference???

The MWC doesn't fix anything. It just settles for the state of affairs we have now. The only person in this thread that should favor that option is CSquaredCC.....

 

[CsquaredCC]

Sorry, I have not been on the board earlier. I became violently ill when someone suggested that we embrace joining the MWC. That idea makes me want to puke. Any fan that embraces that idea is a scumbag....

This type of attitude shows the depths the current regime has pushed CU athletics down to - and yes I place a lot of the blame at the feet of Mike Bohn.

If something like that would happen - it would end it for me. I would still be a CU fan. I would open the paper on Sunday morning to see how they fared against New Mexico or UNLV but I would not be donating nor spending my time on Saturdays going to games. This would start a downward spiral for CU...the $ would be cut in more than half. That crackerjack coach you are trying to hire would be on half the salary we pay now and we would be in a lower prestige conference. CU had 45,000 in the stands for Missouri last year and did not sell out the Nebraska game. How do you think attendance would fare with MWC? Consistently drawing 32,000 at cut rates.

Wasn't CSU the most highly attended game in the entire 2009 season? You don't think Air Force would be a sell out? Hell Wyoming brought in 50,000 plus last season...more than Mizzou and Texas A&M.

 

[JimmyBuff]

So, really pretty much the same as what CU currently has, right?

CU doesn't have any donations, now.
CU doesn't have that many season ticket holders, now.
CU doesn't invest in their coaching staff, now.
CU doesn't invest in their facilities, now.

CU couldn't / wouldn't invest the money to show that they were committed to big time college football six months ago -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that? The State of Colorado has historically shown that they aren't going to commit anything to the University -- yet joining the Pac-____ is somehow going to change all that?

I don't think anyone WANTS Colorado to join the ranks of the MWC. Certainly everyone would like it for Colorado to step up to the plate and act like one of the elite of college football. But they've spent the past sixty years wanting to eat at that table, and when they've been at that table they've never really done anything with it.

I would certainly like to believe that the extra cash generated by a move to the Pac-____ would lead to some better coaching hires, better facilities, etc. but I'm not convinced CU has any REAL interest in becoming a premier, elite, football / athletic department. Their actions over the past few years (and I mean a lot more than just the Hawkins era) make me wonder just how committed to success the athletic department / school really are.

there's a lot of truth in what you are saying but if we ever wanted in the future to rise our athletic program we have a better chance doing it in the Pac 16 than the MWC.

University of California took a 10 to 12 year period off in between Snyder and the hiring of Tedford and did nothing to build their program. They struggled to and they have just as many fractions that were against athletics on campus (including admissions) than CU has. But the losing finally pissed them off and they hired the right athletic director who really improved their program. If it can be done at UC it can be done at CU. Settling for the MWC with what Kiszla wants to do is just stupid.

 

[Junction]

Wasn't CSU the most highly attended game in the entire 2009 season?

Not coincidentally, it was also the one game where we all had hope we were actually going to be good. Taking the steps needed to make CU good again will do a lot more for attendance than scheduling teams just so their fans can drive in and buy tickets.

 

[CsquaredCC]

So what you're hoping is that they'll prove their lack of commitment by jumping to a second rate conference???

The MWC doesn't fix anything. It just settles for the state of affairs we have now. The only person in this thread that should favor that option is CSquaredCC.....

That is true. Don't get me wrong...I am on record as saying that if the Buffs can get an invite they have to go to the Pac-16 or whatever it turns out to be. Period end of story.

However, CU has no control right now. Nebraska, Texas, and ND seem to control how everything shakes out. The MWC is not a bad option.

 

[Junction]

That is true. Don't get me wrong...I am on record as saying that if the Buffs can get an invite they have to go to the Pac-16 or whatever it turns out to be. Period end of story.

However, CU has no control right now. Nebraska, Texas, and ND seem to control how everything shakes out. The MWC is not a bad option.

You are far too rational to be a Lammie... :smile2:

I find it entertaining that you seem to favor CU going to the Pac-16 more than some CU fans do... :lol: