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Risk-taking in recruiting

Discussion in 'University of Colorado Recruiting Archive' started by o_robbie, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    This is exactly the type of guy CU should be trying to get to stay. I know he has some character risks but we need athleticism right now to get this program turned around faster than the 10 year plan we are currently on.
     
  2. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '14 NV RB Nathan Starks

    We tried character risks under Hawkins, where'd that get us? Should we recruit Holmes to?


    Sent from a red light
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Beware of shortcuts.

    That said, if HCMM decides to offer Starks I will understand and support the decision. I really don't know any details on what happened.
     
  4. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Did we recruit character risk guys under Hawkins or Academic issue guys. I don't really remember recruiting to many character risk guys accept Katoa. We had a few other guys who became character issues guys. I recall a talented WR. Other than that I can't think of to many over a 4 year span of recruiting.
     
  5. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Both. Taking big risks on recruits since 2006 is what has gotten us into this mess with the massive amount of attrition we've had.
     
  6. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Again,
    I really don't recall any big risks. For the sake of research I'm not looking at anyone under a 3 star.
    2007- Simas a 4 star receiver would be considered a risk and Gates was an Academic Risk
    2008- Katoa
    2009- Nuckols
    2010- P.Richardson....Our best player!
    2011- Asiata? (Maybe)
    2012- K.Jagne
    2013- N/A
     
  7. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    I guess I am the opposite. I would rather bring in 4 or 5 guys per class that are high risk high reward and hope once becomes a P.Rich then bring in 2 star guys who get run off the field. The Alabama's and Oregons do this only they sustain the busts easier because readily replacements are available.
     
  8. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    The amount of attrition from the classes you listed speaks for itself.

    2007 (28, 10.7% )
    -PT Gates
    -Markques Simas
    -Josh Smith

    2008 (21, 14.3%)
    -Darrel Scott
    -Lynn Katoa
    -Bryce Givens

    2009 (20, 10%)
    -Andre Simmons
    -Edward Nuckols

    2010 (24, 4.2%)
    -Paul Richardson

    2011 (23, 17.4%)
    -Paulay Asiata
    -Will Harlos
    -Rashad Hall
    -Jermane Clark

    2012 (28, 10.7%)
    -Kisima Jagne
    -Davien Payne
    -Kory Rasmussen

    That is a lot of risks taken with very, very little returns. And the ones I listed were just the ones that I remember off of the top of my head and those are the guys who were character/academics risks that washed out, not the ones who washed out because they couldn't crack it at this level.
     
  9. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I thought Harlos' only issue was with concussions?
     
  10. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    It was, but that was a big risk to take
     
  11. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    Well, the clarification was good, then, because you painted all those guys with a character/academic brush.
     
  12. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Yeah, I should have included injury in there for Harlos but otherwise the rest were either academic or character risks.
     
  13. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Darrel Scott, Kory Rasumssen, Josh Smith, and Andre Simmons are all debatable as guys who were risks coming in. Every guy who leaves the program because of differences with coaching or not liking in Boulder doesn't mean they were a risk coming in. If that's the case than Shane Dillon should be on the list along with Vincent Hobbs and many others.

    Also, Rashad Hall and Jermane Clark were only 2 star guys with out many offers. Those guys aren't' really risks at all.
     
  14. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Talent wins games in college now. You can't tell me we wouldn't be a better team if we would have taken a chance on Dwyer or Seastrunk after they left their schools. We need to be the home of 2nd and 3rd chances right now and hope coach can utilize those guys to make us competitive. The other option is the 10 year plan to get back to .500 football we are currently on.
     
  15. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '14 NV RB Nathan Starks

    Talent only matters if you can keep them in school


    Sent from a red light
     
  16. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    There are also no guarantees but teams have built stronger cultures that involve winning, competition for spots, and accountability to coaches and to team leaders then some of the character risk kids are less likely to stray.Had Darrell Scott gone to say an Oklahoma he may very well have turned out differently. From day one the message would not have just been "You are special, we are so glad you are here that we will put up with almost anything you do." Instead it would be "You are special, just like everybody else that's here but if you don't perform we have somebody who may be a little less special but who is going to play anyways because that's how we do it here."At this point in time we don't have the culture and the talent level to keep guys in line. I would much rather have a good talent that contributes than a great talent that doesn't until we are at a point where we can bring the talent out of the kids who have some issues.All of this doesn't matter in this individual situation. If M2 can convince Starks that CU is his best option and if M2 is convinced that Starks issues are behind him and he can be a solid part of the team then there should be no hesitation in bringing him in. In the end all the coaching in the world doesn't matter if you don't have the talent on the field to compete.
     
  17. SECOBuffsFan

    SECOBuffsFan Active Member

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    You got to eliminate the real idiots that end up in jail or prison all the time, but you have to take a few chances here or there with guys that are somewhat risky
     
  18. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '14 NV RB Nathan Starks

    You do, I'm in no way advocating that we take no risks, but with a fragile team and a changing culture we need to be careful about what risks we take. We can't afford to have 10-15% of our class being risks that never contribute or even gain entrance to CU.


    Sent from a red light
     
  19. schubeal

    schubeal Club Member Club Member

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    But taking character risks has worked so well in places like Morgantown, Manhattan (KS), and Tallahassee. Surely a progressive, open-minded place such as Boulder would be a great venue for young athletes from rough places to rehabilitate themselves through sports and education!
     
  20. PAHIBuff

    PAHIBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Signed,

    Lynn Katoa !!
     
  21. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Hindsight is 20/20 on a few of those kids. We aren't aware of some of the red flags these kids show or their backgrounds but I still feel you absolutely take 4 or 5 talented risks over the 2 star or unranked guy. You do this every time and if you hit on a guy like Cam Newton you instantly turn your program back around. Taking under recruited guys who are either not fast enough or don't have the measurables isn't going to cut it in the Pac 12. I think you can get away with it in the Big 12 and Big 10 but not here in the Pac 12 where every game is a track meet.
     
  22. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    This is where I disagree. I don't think we can afford to have 80 percent of our class be guys who aren't up to Pac 12 standards or are projected development guys who we hope could be good in 4 years. Unless people are happy with the 7 to 10 year plan to get us back to .500. I have stated in other threads the only way your conservative recruiting plan works is if alot of those guys develop and we are able to march out are RS JR and Sr vs other teams higher rated recruits. Even then we have to worry about the guys who actually developed bolting to the NFL early like Bahktiari and then we are still in a hole.
     
  23. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    Hindsight may be 20/20 on a guy like Givens (although for all the issues he had in Boulder you'd think something would have been seen), but for many you could see it coming. We have one person on that list above that has contributed in any significant manner, one.


    The developmental guys (with minimum academic/character risks) would be a whole lot better (from the 2007 and 2008 classes) if they were still here rather than the talented, but riskier guys we signed who washed out early on.
     
  24. 4DemBuffs

    4DemBuffs Most admired poster Club Member

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    I don't wanna be a jerk here but, should the discussion really be taking place in this kids thread? Some of the things posted here are not all that flattering to the kid and its more of a general discussion anyway. Does not have to go to the island. Perhaps just its own thread in the recruiting forum?
     
  25. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

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    '14 NV RB Nathan Starks

    Probably not, I was anticipating this being moved a while ago.


    Sent from a red light
     
  26. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    Disagree that you could see it coming on many. Disagree that we took to many risks. Disagree that we would be in better shape taking the squeaky clean 100 ranked WR than taking a 2nd chance on P.Rich who is clearly our most talented player.

    I will stick by this until my face turns blue. If we can't mix in some second chance type atheltes via transfer or recruiting we are 3-4 years away from being a .500 football team and probably 7 away from being a consistent .500 football team. And that is based on 2 assumptions that may never happen. 1. Our raw/athlete types that coach is recruiting work out and develop and 2. That the ones who turn out really good don't bolt for the NFL before they can see things through to the end.

    The other item I have said is if you find an absolute elite QB somehow you can turn the program around quicker. KSU was able to do that with Klein, Texas Tech looks like the found one with a walkon this year. A&M has Manziel. If we somehow hit on a guy like that then everything else changes because kids want to play with stud QB's.
     
  27. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Having gone through the "take any character risks available" with Auburn over the past several years, it seems to end badly in spectacular fashion.
     
  28. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    The guys from 07 and 08 would be gone regardless but lets look at 09's lesser signed recruits to see how much of an impact they are making.
    Will Jefferson...gone
    J.Forrest West...gone
    Gus Handler...starter (by default?)
    DeVaughn Thornton....gone
    Shaun Simon....appears to have gone to KSU after becoming a JUCO
    David Bahktiari...devloped into a good player...leaves early
    Deji Olatoye...gone

    Not very good use of devlopment type guys. Would it have been better to swing for the fences on higher 3 star and 4 star guys with character risks?
     
  29. o_robbie

    o_robbie I don't think before I post

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    You could include Josh Moten in that list as well from 2009 since he was really a guy we took on measurables. But I am only looking at 2 star or less as development guys.

    2010 Class
    Dakota Poole...gone
    Justin Torres...gone
    Terrell Smith...contributor
    Cordaray Clark...gone
    Justin Favors...gone
    Henley Griffon...gone
    Keenan Canty..on the roster
     
  30. J.R. Ewing

    J.R. Ewing Club Member Club Member

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    It would have ended worse at CU. That's a significantly more forgiving environment.
     

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