Shaking Things Up....

[TheRoyale90]

No arguement. But how many examples outside of Tom Brady can you think of that fit this mold? There may be a few others, but I personally am having a hard time coming up with any right at this moment.

There are always exceptions to the rules and maybe we have that diamond in the rough sitting on the bench. I really don't know. But the percentages are against you more than they are for you.

Sure Brady is an extreme example but I think this happens a lot more than you'd think. Willy Parker, Michael Turner, and Maurice Jones-Drew made their names after subbing in for injury. Joe Ganz got his job that way. John Hessler wasn't on anyone's radar and led us to 10-2 and a smiting of Oregon in the Cotton Bowl. It does happen but my point is just that guys don't always "earn it" in practice. Sometimes they need to get a shot on the field.

 

[Chilly]

Sure Brady is an extreme example but I think this happens a lot more than you'd think. Willy Parker, Michael Turner, and Maurice Jones-Drew made their names after subbing in for injury. Joe Ganz got his job that way. John Hessler wasn't on anyone's radar and led us to 10-2 and a smiting of Oregon in the Cotton Bowl. It does happen but my point is just that guys don't always "earn it" in practice. Sometimes they need to get a shot on the field.

I just don't think this is apples to apples. Yes these are all talented players, but they were also sitting behind talented players. I don't like NFL comparisons as much either, but considering these are NFL players don't you think they were showing something in practice that indicated they had the capability to do this on the field when given a chance. If they weren't my guess is they would have been cut, which is something you can't do in college ball.

I want to make it clear that I am not bashing the kids either who are not playing as if they are not incapable of practicing hard either. I think all of our kids are doing the best they can to practice hard and learn what is being taught to them. I also think there is a learning curve for the younger players, especially at WR. I think our WR corp is going to be very very good given the physical talent that has been recruited. The question is how soon can the put all that together.

Clearly this staff doesn't have problem starting kids that they think are ready to play. Speedy started as a freshman, Miller was earning playing time as a freshman, and there are several other examples that can be pointed to. I think the biggest issue is that people have lost faith in the coaching staff that they no when to make the decision on who is ready to play. Given our record, it is clear to see why they have lost that faith. But, in fairness to myself, I am also willing to admit that I am even less informed than the coaching staff about who is ready and not ready to start, so I don't feel like I can bring anything to the table that is productive. I can tell you from what I see on the game day that RB is not a position I am at all concerned about, and I can also see how it is going to be very difficult for DS to get on the field. I hate to say this, but maybe he is going to have to go the Tom Brady route and wait for that type of opportunity to seize the day. Because I would find it very hard right now to not want to give Speedy even more carries.

 

[Junction]

I am not calling out Rae Carruth. My point is that I find it over the top for people to be outraged that Cody is climbing the record books. What has Cody done as a buff that says he doesn't deserve to be there? Why is his place in the record books BS? I don't care how he got his passing yards, he did it while wearing a Buff uniform and representing this University with Class. I am PROUD that we have a guy like Cody in our record books.

I made the reference to make a point, and I think it is a valid point. Why are people upset that a fine young man such as Cody is in a position to breaks some CU passing records? What has he done that makes anyone believe he doesn't deserve that recognition? If I was going to get upset about having players in our records books, Cody would NOT be on of them.

Fair enough. I made what I thought was obvious association, but I'm glad to know you didn't intend a specific reference there. Knowing that, I can accept your point, although I think it's a bit of an overreaction to jump from Cody to "convicted murderer" - I think there are a few more points on that spectrum.

To me, if it's "sad" that Cody is going to be the all-time passing record holder at CU, it isn't because Cody isn't worthy as a person. He absolutely is. It's because of what it says about CU's history at QB, in particular since we went to a primarily pass-oriented offense. To say that Cody, bless him, is the best we've ever had in that role is, for lack of a better word, sad.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Chilly, I know what u are saying and where your heart is but it might be a foregone conclusion. I only brought up Texas for one reason, it is about results. You dont win there, u pack your bags. CU is one of the top 30 programs of all time, history wise. Who the hell is Dan Hawkins to compromise that? You dont win here, you pack your bags as well. Im sure the guy is doing his best but is he really who we want? U actually go to a student section and tell them not to boo? Did that happen? If it did, the guy is worried as hell. If he knew his guys would perform, he wouldnt say **** to the student body in that regard.

 

[BuffLuke80]

CU was a power running team for many, many years. That is basically what we have done in our history. Honestly, I dont see why we should change it. People that say u cant win doing that anymore are full of ****. If u know football, u know what im talking about.

 

[buffsyko]

And what do you base this on? Or is this just another echo chamber post.

What do you base your feelings that he is? Or is this just another,I'll defend hawk no matter the circumstances post?

 

[Duff Man]

To me, if it's "sad" that Cody is going to be the all-time passing record holder at CU, it isn't because Cody isn't worthy as a person. He absolutely is. It's because of what it says about CU's history at QB, in particular since we went to a primarily pass-oriented offense. To say that Cody, bless him, is the best we've ever had in that role is, for lack of a better word, sad.

Or completely misleading. Just as Joel Klatt holding several CU records is misleading. The problem with a misleading record that Cody will have is that someone, whether it be the coaching staff or a newspaper columnist or even a regular fan, is inevitably going to use it as justification for why Cody has received the bulk of practice reps and starts over the last few years.

 

[buffsyko]

Absolutely non of the BS you posted has any bearing on whether or not Hawkins has given someone a "fair" shot.

DS averaged 1.3 carries last game and has not looked as explosive as Rodney Stewart EVER. DS sits on the bench because Speedy is a better back.

Espy has caught every single punt he has been back for. Every SINGLE one! Unless one of you clowns can tell me you have sat through practices an watched the other players fielding punts as well as Espy has, the BS about not getting a fair shake is just that BS.

The bottom line is this board is full of con artist who think they know something, but guess what you guys don't know ****. You only have opinions, and you opinions are based on nothing more than parroting what other people say. This board has become officially devoid of any kind of independent thought and observations. Instead we just through a bunch of **** out there as fact and expect everyone to buy into it.

Well guess what I don't. Is Hawkins the right buy for our program. Crap I don't know, but this BS about favoritism or not playing the guys he thinks can win us game is just that.

We sit and watch 3 1/2 hours of football and we make statements like DS is a bruiser has needs to run out of the I. Really? Based on what fact. I have yet to see Darrell Scott run out of the I and become a dominating bruiser as the game has worn on.

Oh yeah this is where Allbuffs will jump in and say, that is the point, he hasn't gotten the chance. It's a big circle jerk. Please just once I want on of you clown to tell me just what EVIDENCE you post is based on. Not some jackass assertion based on watching this team for 3 1/2 hours on TV. If DS is a bruiser, please point me towards some game film where he has shown that. If he runs better out of the I-formation, which practice did you attend where he showed this.

I Lockridge is better at punt returns, please explain to me what you have seen, other than his kick returns on Saturday.

Quit being parrots of the same 'ol crap. Give something concrete other than typical fan hindsight talk.

Bottom line on why I support Hawkins. He runs a clean program and he sets the bar high for his kids. I am sick of what College Football has become with the win at all costs, and forget what is really important and that is being a student athelete. I am tired of Universities being defined by their Football programs, instead of enhanced by their programs. I am tired of sports fans who think they know so much about he sports they watch, yet couldn't tell you which side of the jock strap goes in front. I am tired of sports fans who think that it's ok to have players like Mike Vick on your team as long as you are winning. Do I support Hawkins? Damn Straight. It is about time a coach with moral character demands that his kids hold themselves accountable for their actions, gets a chance build a long term winning program. Someone like Hawkins deserves the chance to put HIS senior laden team on the field and show if he can win or not with his kids. Yes it's year 4. Next year is year 5 and that is when he will have had one full recruiting cycle with redshirts, and he has earned the chance to show us what he can do as a coach with those kids.

He has not earned all the BS disrespect that gets thrown around here, by a bunch of second rate, backward jack strap, wannabes. He HAS built this program the right way. He has done right by the University of Colorado, and he has not waiver from his convictions. He should be applauded for this, not tared and feathered. I know losing sucks and the University may chose to get rid of him at the end of this year. But he deserves better that what many of the posters on this board are giving him.

He has not SOLD out this University in the name of wins like Slick Rick did, he did not allow a culture of boys will be boys to run rampant within his program like Barnett did. He has held his players to a high standard. If anything he is guilty of setting the bar to high. For that I applaud him.

As for the rest of the posters on this board who don't have the ability to define themselves by anything other than wins or loses by a football program, I really feel for you guys.

Maybe if you have the time Saturday we can sit and have a beer sometime before the game and talk football.

This isn't the ivy league, if you don't care about wins then why are you discussing anything? Because you like hawk that makes you some ****ing know-it-all jockstrap? I've always stated that hawk and bohn outside of the football arena have done many good things. But who are you kidding, the bottom line is wins and losses and it's that way all around the country. Many schools do it clean and win, no reason cu can't accomplish this also.

 

[Duff Man]

Espy has caught every single punt he has been back for. Every SINGLE one! Unless one of you clowns can tell me you have sat through practices an watched the other players fielding punts as well as Espy has, the BS about not getting a fair shake is just that BS.

I Lockridge is better at punt returns, please explain to me what you have seen, other than his kick returns on Saturday.

I think you brought up some decent points in the rest of your post (don't necessarily agree with them, but still), but I want to talk about Espinoza and the punt return game for a minute.

I know you're the first guy to criticize "change for the sake of change" policy, but something has to happen with the punt return game, Chilly. We are dead last in the Big 12 in punt return yardage. Dead last, at less than 4 yards a return with a long of 15. Do you think that helps an offense that struggles to consistently move the ball if they are always playing from behind in field position? Catching the ball is obviously the #1 priority of a punt returner, but it is not the only requirement. If the coaches cannot find someone out of 70 some odd scholarship players that can catch the ball and is a threat to break open long returns, there is a coaching issue.

 

[buffsyko]

I think you brought up some decent points in the rest of your post (don't necessarily agree with them, but still), but I want to talk about Espinoza and the punt return game for a minute.

I know you're the first guy to criticize "change for the sake of change" policy, but something has to happen with the punt return game, Chilly. We are dead last in the Big 12 in punt return yardage. Dead last, at less than 4 yards a return with a long of 15. Do you think that helps an offense that struggles to consistently move the ball if they are always playing from behind in field position? Catching the ball is obviously the #1 priority of a punt returner, but it is not the only requirement. If the coaches cannot find someone out of 70 some odd scholarship players that can catch the ball and is a threat to break open long returns, there is a coaching issue.

:thumbsup:

 

[Chilly]

I think you brought up some decent points in the rest of your post (don't necessarily agree with them, but still), but I want to talk about Espinoza and the punt return game for a minute.

I know you're the first guy to criticize "change for the sake of change" policy, but something has to happen with the punt return game, Chilly. We are dead last in the Big 12 in punt return yardage. Dead last, at less than 4 yards a return with a long of 15. Do you think that helps an offense that struggles to consistently move the ball if they are always playing from behind in field position? Catching the ball is obviously the #1 priority of a punt returner, but it is not the only requirement. If the coaches cannot find someone out of 70 some odd scholarship players that can catch the ball and is a threat to break open long returns, there is a coaching issue.

I agree that we have to get better on the punt return team. While Espy is excellent at fielding punts he has not shown an ability to make that first guy miss and make something happen. But I would be just as disappointed in our punt return game if I felt like we were going to have 1 turn over a game due to a poorly fielded punt. To be honest I don't like either scenario, but if I had to chose the worse of two evils it would the one that doesn't include a turnover in my side of the 50. I agree that in all likelyhood there is someone on this roster who has a better chance of making that first defender miss, what I don't know, is does that player have the ability to field the punts as well as Espy?

 

[Duff Man]

I agree that we have to get better on the punt return team. While Espy is excellent at fielding punts he has not shown an ability to make that first guy miss and make something happen. But I would be just as disappointed in our punt return game if I felt like we were going to have 1 turn over a game due to a poorly fielded punt. To be honest I don't like either scenario, but if I had to chose the worse of two evils it would the one that doesn't include a turnover in my side of the 50. I agree that in all likelyhood there is someone on this roster who has a better chance of making that first defender miss, what I don't know, is does that player have the ability to field the punts as well as Espy?

And that's an issue if you cannot find both. Plenty of teams seem to be able to find both... some teams even actually recruit guys that can return the ball with the intention of them doing that at the college level. I guess, just like at other positions, if Espy is really the best option we have, where do we go from here? I want to believe that this coaching staff is building something for the future, but is it realistic to expect Espy to suddenly gain a quick first step? Probably not.

 

[Chilly]

And that's an issue if you cannot find both. Plenty of teams seem to be able to find both... some teams even actually recruit guys that can return the ball with the intention of them doing that at the college level. I guess, just like at other positions, if Espy is really the best option we have, where do we go from here? I want to believe that this coaching staff is building something for the future, but is it realistic to expect Espy to suddenly gain a quick first step? Probably not.

I think Espy was always the second option. The staff was counting on J-fly being back there again this year, which might be why we have not developed a better option yet. I would hope that it is being addressed during the week and at some point we will see one of the quicker players take over in the this role. Does anyone recall who was the back-up last year at this position when J-fly was hurt? I recall him missing some time. I am pretty sure it wasn't Espy, but like I said my memory sucks at times.