Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by dply, Sep 28, 2010.
Shooting was a lone gunman with an AK-47 who eventually killed himself in the main library after Austin and UT police quickly contained him.
Campus is locked down and all classes cancelled for the day as police search the campus for a possible second suspect.
It sounds like no-one else was injured. Let's hope that remains true.
Yep - that's the report so far. Gunman is the only casualty/fatality. Some reports coming out that some parts of campus have been given the "all clear" but official word is that whole campus is still shut down.
Terrible, it reminds me of that lunatic that was on top of that tower with a rifle at UT back in the 60's.
I'm just shocked that the guy brought a gun on campus. I'm pretty sure that isn't allowed there. How did he do it?
Yeah - but that guy (Charles Whitman) killed 13 people from the clocktower using a high-powered sniper rifle after killing his wife and mother. Thank GOD that didn't happen here. Police response (campus and city) has been excellent so far and it appears as if the university had its $**t together in getting the word out for students to stay home and locking down the campus in a timely manner so SWAT can/could search for the possible second suspect w/o innocents walking around.
Oh - latest update - lockdown has been lifted. Movement about campus now.
No word on how yet - that'll probably come out later. I know they were trying to get the gun ban worked into the campus laws, but as this Texas, there was quite the to-do about it. Don't remember if they got the law passed or not. Pretty sure they did considering how fast metal detectors went up at the capitol after some nutjob went into and came out of the capitol with a shotgun, and fired 4 shots in the air from the main entrance steps after he exited.
this will fire up the carry on campus debate. which is interesting, except it leaves most frosh and sophs (age-wise, in most states) unable to defend themselves and, as the logic goes, that the prof/teacher will carry and act as deterrent....which as one (prof), i don't think is a good idea. all that does is paint a target on you in front of the class. first thing a crazy is gonna do is shoot the teacher. it's my job to teach, not take a bullet for the other 35 people in the room.
and if so, my health insurance better be a helluva lot better and i better make a lot more cheese.
Just allowing CC on campus doesn't mean the teachers are responsible for doing it. No one has to, but CCW holders who want to, can. It isn't a measure so that everyone on campus in every classroom is safe because at least someone is carrying. It would make a potential shooter second guess whether they want to do it or not, knowing that anyone they come across could be carrying as well.
It was really cool to see how well the Austin PD and UT police worked together/cooperated on this. Stood right there together during the press conferences and had the same messages - a united effort...something you'd never see (or at least I never saw 91-96) between the CU police and the Boulder PD.
Whitman missed my neighbor, a UT student, by 3 ft.
Not to turn this into a political thread, but this post is correct.
Wow, someone was smiling on him that day. Bet that's permanently etched in his memory (understatement, I know)
i understand the logic. my point is that a class full frosh and sophs who are not old enough to carry....it is both assumed and argued by supporters that the teacher carries. this is not a responsibility anyone should be forced to assume (especially when it's the completion of a larger political perspective looking for fulfillment in these kind of situations). it's an incomplete policy. again, my job is to teach....not to be the "point man" in a deterrent policy. whether i carry or not, is a choice i should be allowed to make....not a social or political compulsion.
I've never heard anyone say that any person should be forced to carry.
OK, compulsion is a better phrase....but, it remains a crucial part of the argument that *at least* the teacher "might" be carrying. if i'm the only person in a class who is old enough to carry:
1. i am the target. what used to be a random shooting, is now a motivated shooting with the teacher as the first target.
2. if i'm not carrying, and there is a shooting, it's post facto my fault in the eyes of John Q. Public. from a career standpoint, i'd wager one's career would end....based entirely in factors unrelated to professional qualification. and personally, if i'm the only one who can carry, this is a social compulsion to "protect" when that in no way is part of one's training or responsibility as a college teacher--and is certainly not a responsibility for which one would receive remuneration. one would feel "obligated" by forces beyond one's individual choice to assume an armed posture in a classroom. i consider that a fairly strong compulsion.....but, there's nothing in it for me except an exponentially heightened risk of being shot and killed, right out the crazy box.
frankly, i'd rather take my chances with no guns on campus and the occasional incident than a bunch of 21 year olds carrying for kicks. because, there would be a lot of those.
Mick, no offense, but that sounds like a big ole scarecrow you're erecting in here. I have never heard such an argument that anyone would be forced or compelled (or any other synonym you'd like to toss in there) to carry. And I'm a pretty damn big supporter of gun rights and rights to carry. But that doesn't mean anyone is forced to do so. If you don't want to carry, then don't. But don't try to restrict the rights of those who want to be able to defend themselves if a whacko comes looking for trouble.
Students are allowed to carry at CSU. Are there all kinds of problems with 'a bunch of 21 year olds carrying for kicks' in Ft. Collins? If there are, they certainly don't make the news because I've never heard of it. It's not like you can just go buy a gun and carry it. You must attend (and pay for) an all day training class. You must apply for (and pay for) the CCW license. And you must pass a background check.
Are teachers in Ft. Collins being forced to carry in their classrooms? Again, if they are I sure haven't heard of it.
EDIT: It sounds like CU's ban is being challenged as well. It was ruled unconstitutional in April by the Colorado Court of Appeals.
I believe in most cases the potential shooter expects his own life will end that day anyhow.
In that case, an armed student or faculty member could help them accomplish that in a more expedient fashion.
um, the CCW point is moot in this circumstance...he was carrying a **** ing AK people. an AK!
Buffario: you aren't reading very carefully. i get you are a guns rights guy. as i said before, to you, this is the completion of a larger political perspective. my points are you are creating a policy that dramatically *increases* the likelihood of two populations to be the targets. students under 21, teachers. what you propose is an incomplete solution. it may seem elegant as a completion of current 2nd Amendment concerns of yours, but it's not adequate as a solution to *this* issue to simply arm (half of) the campus.
i'm not "against guns" and even if i were i am utterly and 100% a civil libertarian--which is to say, all of the Bill of Rights, not just the ones that are convenient or politically relevant to whatever media cycle or partisan squabbling is current (not saying this is you, B, just that such things do exist). i spent a big part of my youth hunting pheasant and quail with my dad. i own a shotgun.
I never said it was a complete solution, but it's a hell of a lot better than guaranteeing a gunman will walk into a class full of unarmed targets. If you can't agree with that, this conversation will never go anywhere.
I never called it elegant, either. Kindly quit putting words in my mouth, thanks.
Who cares what he was carrying? If there were CCW holding people on campus and saw this guy carrying an AK or a pistol or a crossbow or a knife and threatening people, then that CCW holder can decide if they are in a position to neutralize the threat instead of waiting the 5 minutes it may take to call the police and have them show up, by which time the shooter could have already shot numerous people and moved to a different location to shoot more people. An AK isn't a shield...he can still be shot.
I am just saying that no gun control / campus ban will stop a psycho who wants to come on to campus and start shooting up the place.
Nobody said it would. And nobody said allowing CCW on campus is guaranteed to stop it. All it does is give those who carry the opportunity to defend themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
True. Crazy people happen. Some people want to be prepared for those instances. Let's not stop those people.
My internet has been out all day at work until now, just now seeing all of this (I had heard something about it earlier today though). I'm glad that no one else was hurt, it sounds like he was just kind of shooting at buildings and into the ground, not really aiming at anyone directly, even those close by him. I heard sirens for half an hour this morning, now I know why.
He'd have to say it was a good day.....
which it was, as he got offed and nobody else got hurt, right?
No barking from the dog, a breakfast with no hog, classes cancelled... Yeah, turned out a lot better than it could have.
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