Showing a little solidarity with our Pac-10 Trojans

[SuperiorBuff]

NFL (scouts) access and Agent access are two different things. I don't think the scouts and pro evaluators gain much by personal contact with players, at least until they're eligible to be drafted. And I'm pretty sure the scouts, et al, have no interest in an agents opinion of a players abilities, for obvious reasons.

I think Saban is off base on this one (regarding NFL access). However, someone needs to do something about the agents and their merry bunch of leeches.

Scouts and pro evaluators gain a ton by being able to go on campus prior to the combine for timing days and interviews. I've been told as much by the head of scouting for an NFL team since they want to see the kids prior to the "training" they get for the combine. Eliminating their access would be a big issue with the NFL, and I believe a serious incentive for the league to help the NCAA control improper agent contact.

I never mentioned anything about scouts, et al, getting opinions from agents.

 

[buffsyko]

Sorry, no sympathy. CU got screwed over training table BS.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Scouts and pro evaluators gain a ton by being able to go on campus prior to the combine for timing days and interviews. I've been told as much by the head of scouting for an NFL team since they want to see the kids prior to the "training" they get for the combine. Eliminating their access would be a big issue with the NFL, and I believe a serious incentive for the league to help the NCAA control improper agent contact.

I never mentioned anything about scouts, et al, getting opinions from agents.

We're really not far off on our opinions, SB. For the most part, the scouts and evaluators are seeing the young (draftable) players after the season and bowl games. I don't see much of an issue there, and since college f/b players are essentially the nfl's farm system, I'm not convinced that it will change.

The agents, et al, on the other hand..... I heard on the radio that something like 32 or 38 of the 50 states have laws that pertain to violations by agents. If a few get caught and persecuted, maybe this will all begin to change.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

We're really not far off on our opinions, SB. For the most part, the scouts and evaluators are seeing the young (draftable) players after the season and bowl games. I don't see much of an issue there, and since college f/b players are essentially the nfl's farm system, I'm not convinced that it will change.

The agents, et al, on the other hand..... I heard on the radio that something like 32 or 38 of the 50 states have laws that pertain to violations by agents. If a few get caught and persecuted, maybe this will all begin to change.

The problem is that the laws only target the agents. They need a punishment that removes or radically increases the risk of the incentive, such as the NFL fining/suspending the agent and player. In my opinion, nothing will happen until the NFL & NFLPA get involved and they won't budge until it affects their pocket books.

 

[Denver_sc]

Even though every USC alumn I have ever met acts like an entitled and arrogant a****** and the schadenfreude is delicious, I objectively have no sympathy for those guys because the program acted similarly to their fans for the past 10 years or so. They, like every other college program, knew what they were getting when they got OJ Mayo on campus. I could probably pull up a dozen archived articles from right before or after OJ Mayo committed where people said he was a NCAA violation waiting to happen.

In addition, they turned a blind eye to everything that was going on with Reggie Bush because they thought they could get away with it. Honestly, I thought they'd get away with it, too. I'm glad that the NCAA finally did what they are supposed to do and objectively sanctioned an out of control programs, although I do agree with the posters who say that they got off too lightly in a financial sense. They made TONS of money off of their success with Bush, and to a lesser extent, Mayo, and I beleive they'll lose hardly any with the scholly reductions and bowl bans (although, as a brief tangent, I could see their football attendance take a serious nose-dive this year due to the fickle nature of the LA market and a "meaningless" season).

Even up until the sanctions were announced, their AD said that they hadn't done anything wrong and were "confident" that the NCAA would "do the right thing and act fairly." Even now, they have the audacity to appeal the ruling. If they were to man up, admit what they did was improper and take the ruling standing up I'd maybe have a little sympathy for them.

If there IS one program that I do have some sympathy for in this entire mess, it's Auburn.

 

[CUBUFF80]

Carroll didn't know anything? Gimme a break, as long as coaches can move on to another job with no penalty, they'll never give a damn about the mess they leave behind.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

The problem is that the laws only target the agents. They need a punishment that removes or radically increases the risk of the incentive, such as the NFL fining/suspending the agent and player. In my opinion, nothing will happen until the NFL & NFLPA get involved and they won't budge until it affects their pocket books.

IMO, both would be good moves. Let the nfl take money/access from the agents and money from offending players, AND let the states enforce their laws. Sounds like something that could get done and have an affect. Will we see it? dunno

Carroll didn't know anything? Gimme a break, as long as coaches can move on to another job with no penalty, they'll never give a damn about the mess they leave behind.

Said the neu-kid as he merrily skipped out of Boulder......

 

[Mick Ronson]

conference fealty uber alles is all post-SEC network created. it's stupid. and a way that marketers united the population rich, intelligence poor south into a marketable single demographic. i feel no reason to rah rah for USC....anymore than i rah rah'ed for Texas or OU.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I could be wrong but I highly doubt Bush was the only one doing those kind of things. However, he was Mr. Heisman and all they really needed to prove stuff was going on. Hell, it wasnt like it was a big secret.

 

[77buff]

I just wanted to say that I think it's complete bull**** that USC got the hammer dropped on them like they did. The problem is with sports agents, not with the USC program. It's almost impossible to police this stuff.

Should USC have noticed the new house and other goodies such as the family having the resources to travel to away games? Of course. And they should have looked into it.

But the punishment is too harsh. The NCAA better drop similar punishments on Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina if it uncovers extra benefits from agents in those cases too.

And then some new rules need to be drafted whereby the NCAA accredits sports agents who play by the rules and possibly gives them a forum to meet and present to the athletes in a program within a structured environment. The NCAA needs to get out in front of this, use the opportunity to educate the kids, and give an advantage to the agents that play by the rules.

Get serious, when Reggie Bush's family moved into housing that they could only dream of before Reggie signed, don't you think it was flat obvious that alot of money was comming from somebody? I hate Lane Kiffin, USC is getting just what it deserves. You ain't seen nothing yet - just wait until Kiffin starts losing. The pressure on him will be tremendous, and he will try to get around the recruiting sanctions and get USC in deeper ***t. He's the worst character coach that you would want in this situation. He's a rat. In defense of Reggie, he was just a 17 year old kid, whose prick wound up in an agent's back pocket.

 

[sackman]

I'm still surprised at the severity of the punishment, given USC's place as rainmaker and top dog in college football. I figured they would be given some kind of slap on the wrist. What they got was inches away from the death penalty.

 

[MtnBuff]

I'm still surprised at the severity of the punishment, given USC's place as rainmaker and top dog in college football. I figured they would be given some kind of slap on the wrist. What they got was inches away from the death penalty.

You are correct in terms of the surprising severity of the punishment. Usually the NCAA makes examples out of the lower end teams in big conferences or the better teams in non-BCS conferences so they can say they are doing something while the big money producers get off light meaning they are still around to produce TV ratings and bowl attendance.

I wonder, completely without any evidence to suggest it, if the NCAA didn't try to work something out with SC a while back telling them "Look, you guys take responsibility for your actions, fire some people, look humble, and we will give you a penalty that will make you look bad but keep you in a good position to be a prominent team when this is all over." It then wouldn't surprise me if in their arrogance the SC administration refused to work with them or give the NCAA something substantial to work with essentially placing themselves above the rules. Doing this gave the NCAA no choice but to come down hard, especially since certain elements of the media where making it clear that they were not going to let the story go away.

In the end the NCAA is forced to take strong action even if they really don't want to.

 

[DesertDawg526]

What USC got was no worse than what UW got when you consider they planted Barbara Hedges at UW and that led to the hiring of Rick followed by Ty...

USC will be fine. They will always recruit the best in the Pac. They just won't always have the best team or coaches. I have no sympathy for them, however...

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I'm still surprised at the severity of the punishment, given USC's place as rainmaker and top dog in college football. I figured they would be given some kind of slap on the wrist. What they got was inches away from the death penalty.

 

[sackman]

They lost 30 scholarships. You only get 85 to begin with. I understand there's some maneuvering they can do here, but that's huge. Honestly, this is a very, very big deal. Anybody who thinks USC will just keep on truckin is delusional. This is going to hurt - a lot. It will take them years to recover. Kiffin will be long gone. They have some inherent advantages being in SoCal and a really strong tradition, but they have a monsterous hill to climb. So yeah, I'm serious. What they got was inches away from the death penalty. There isn't much more the NCAA could do to USC beyond what they did.

 

[dio]

They lost 30 scholarships. You only get 85 to begin with. I understand there's some maneuvering they can do here, but that's huge. Honestly, this is a very, very big deal. Anybody who thinks USC will just keep on truckin is delusional. This is going to hurt - a lot. It will take them years to recover. Kiffin will be long gone. They have some inherent advantages being in SoCal and a really strong tradition, but they have a monsterous hill to climb. So yeah, I'm serious. What they got was inches away from the death penalty. There isn't much more the NCAA could do to USC beyond what they did.

I agree... they've lost 1/3 of their schollies... Can they survive? Yeah, but this is a big deal and will be a major blow to the program that is timed with the departure of their legenrady HC. Kiffin + penalty = big problems for USC. It is going to take a long, long time for USC to recover from this, if they ever do.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I still feel they deserved more. I don't think they'll have any issues with the loss of scholarships. They will appeal or the NCAA will reduce the number next year. I also wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA shaved a year off of their postseason ban.

The Trojans will recover quickly.

 

[sackman]

I still feel they deserved more. I don't think they'll have any issues with the loss of scholarships. They will appeal or the NCAA will reduce the number next year. I also wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA shaved a year off of their postseason ban.

The Trojans will recover quickly.

The only thing the NCAA could have done in addition to what they did would be a television ban. Otherwise, they bent USC over and gave it to them hard. And deservedly so.

And I don't see any way they can recover quickly. What is likely to happen is that they'll lose a ton of upperclassmen - the guys they were probably depending on to perform this and next year, and then will be staring down the barrel of an incredibly depleted roster. What is likely to happen is that Kiffen will bear the brunt of the sanctions and will be fired in 2-3 years. Whoever the next coach is will have another 2-3 years to try to get things going again. In the meantime, I forsee 5-6 years of mediocre football from the Trojans. If by "recover quickly", you mean in another 6 years, then we agree. That's the earliest that they'll be able to dig themselves out of this hole, though, IMO.

 

[Darth Snow]

The only thing the NCAA could have done in addition to what they did would be a television ban. Otherwise, they bent USC over and gave it to them hard. And deservedly so.

And I don't see any way they can recover quickly. What is likely to happen is that they'll lose a ton of upperclassmen - the guys they were probably depending on to perform this and next year, and then will be staring down the barrel of an incredibly depleted roster. What is likely to happen is that Kiffen will bear the brunt of the sanctions and will be fired in 2-3 years. Whoever the next coach is will have another 2-3 years to try to get things going again. In the meantime, I forsee 5-6 years of mediocre football from the Trojans. If by "recover quickly", you mean in another 6 years, then we agree. That's the earliest that they'll be able to dig themselves out of this hole, though, IMO.

in three years, they will have 40 scholarship players during spring ball. At best. Good luck winning with that. And then they will need several years to build it back up. Good luck winning with that. If the next hire isn't badass, they could have a lost decade rivaling ours, easy.

 

[sackman]

in three years, they will have 40 scholarship players during spring ball. At best. Good luck winning with that. And then they will need several years to build it back up. Good luck winning with that. If the next hire isn't badass, they could have a lost decade rivaling ours, easy.

They'll have more than 40. I'd guess somewhere in the 60 range, but that's still a huge hit. Not enough depth to effectively run Spring practices. They could start to suck as early as this year. New coach, lots of player defections, tons of inexperience. But let's not get too giddy. They've been recruiting the best of the best for the last 10 years. They will still have talent there. What Kiffen can do with that talent remains to be seen. I suspect he'll have some problems.

 

[DesertDawg526]

USC won't have depth with the loss of their schollies.

Having said that, there is no reason to think their "average" recruit won't be a 4*. They will always have top tier talent. They always have, even when they weren't top of the Pac.

They will be hurting, to be sure. But they will be back in 5-6 years too. Is a decade of college football dominance worth that? Probably is. The punishment is in no way too harsh.

 

[dio]

The only thing the NCAA could have done in addition to what they did would be a television ban. Otherwise, they bent USC over and gave it to them hard. And deservedly so.

And I don't see any way they can recover quickly. What is likely to happen is that they'll lose a ton of upperclassmen - the guys they were probably depending on to perform this and next year, and then will be staring down the barrel of an incredibly depleted roster. What is likely to happen is that Kiffen will bear the brunt of the sanctions and will be fired in 2-3 years. Whoever the next coach is will have another 2-3 years to try to get things going again. In the meantime, I forsee 5-6 years of mediocre football from the Trojans. If by "recover quickly", you mean in another 6 years, then we agree. That's the earliest that they'll be able to dig themselves out of this hole, though, IMO.

6 years at the earliest, more likely 8 - 10 years assuming they get a coach who can get them winning games. If they don't find a coach who wins, then recruiting will start hurting and they could be in a long down period.

 

[DesertDawg526]

If they don't find a coach who wins, then recruiting will start hurting and they could be in a long down period.

I disagree. I don't think USC will ever be hurting in recruiting. Even when the Huskies ruled the Pac-10, USC recruited better. UW just had better coaches. USC will always pull 4* and 5* guys without difficulty. They will pull in fewer with schollie reductions, but the quality will still be there. USC will never fail to have highly rated recruits on their roster, it just won't happen. Never has, never will.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Considering everything that USC did in both football, and Basketball, they deserved everything they got. I also believe a big part of all this was the former AD. He pretty much laughed in the NCAA's faces during the whole process. Only after the NCAA brought down these sanctions did they actually do anything.

If you want to sit here and tell me USC didn't deserve these sanctions I say bull****. It was in no way close to the "Death Penalty". I also fully expect the NCAA to ease up on this as well. After the appeal, the NCAA will give them back half of their schollies and may possibly shave a year off their postseason ban.

I also disagree that they'll fire Kiffen after two years. USC hired Kiffen knowing full well what was coming down at them. I'm sure Lane will have plenty of support during these two years from the university.

 

[sackman]

It was in no way close to the "Death Penalty".

Name me one other school not named "SMU" that got a worse penalty.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Do you realize how many times USC has been on probation? This isn't the first time they've received a post season ban either.

This was the sixth time Southern Cal's football program received probation (the others were 1957, 1959, 1982, 1986 and 2001), and the fourth time the Trojans received a bowl game ban (the others were 1957, 1959 and 1982) -- more than any other collegiate football program except Southern Methodist University

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Name me one other school not named "SMU" that got a worse penalty.

just because this is the worse punishment handed out since the SMU incident, doesn't make it "Inches" away from the death penalty. JMHO.

.......If the NCAA took SC off of TV, then I'd agree with you.

 

[BuffLuke80]

If it was CU, we would have got worse period. Whole damn thing is about money.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Probation is an acceptable risk for most schools that want to win at the highest level. True USC got nailed...bad, but if Pete Carroll decided tomorrow to leave Seattle to go back to coaching college ball, there would be a line around the block to hire him. The good still outweighs the bad, so that's why I think the penalty should be tougher.

 

[unbiasedtruth]

Name me one other school not named "SMU" that got a worse penalty.

Okie Lite..... from the 5 years Jimmy Johnson was there. Both penalties/sanctions handed down by the NCAA are very similiar in nature, 4 years probabtion, 2 years no bowls, about the same number of schollies cut.... cant remeber if okie lite was cut off from TV though. It didnt hurt Oie Lte right away because of the players already there when Jimmy skipped town to be the Canes coach and he knew the NCAA hammer was coming down. By year 3 of the penalties Okie Lite was in really bad shape and stayed there for years....

big reason a coach by the name of Bob Simmons wasnt more successful there....