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Sipili is suspended (unbelievable)
- Thread starter Leon Sandcastle
- Start date
Just kind of reading tween the lines in the paper, Hawk/Bohn are really pissed that the tribunal waited until the last second to do this. Sip has not asked to transfer.
Swish
Half a bubble off
The problem is we are not in magic huckster land.
Not that I would normally advocate anything huckster, but if we were he would have gotten a one gamer against a nobody like purifool did.
Ironically during the SC/Wazoo game last night Cally was quoted as saying the strong discipline in the NFL by Goodall this year is helping him discipline his kids :wow:
Not that I would normally advocate anything huckster, but if we were he would have gotten a one gamer against a nobody like purifool did.
Ironically during the SC/Wazoo game last night Cally was quoted as saying the strong discipline in the NFL by Goodall this year is helping him discipline his kids :wow:
I love it Swish! "The Magical Land of Husker." Very appropriate. :thumbsup:
I have to disagree with you here, Wispy. Yes, the football players, and athletes in any other sport that gets media attention, are going to be more publicly visible than other students. They have to expect that. What they do NOT have to expect is to have University rules enforced differently for them than other students. They should NOT have to expect to be suspended from school for reasons no other student would be. They do not forfeit the right to just treatment just by signing a letter of intent.
What you are saying is that the school can apply one standard of discipline for the student body, but if they don't believe that standard would prevent bad publicity, they can apply a different standard in cases that are going to be publicized. That is hypocritical, and in a court of law would clearly not meet the standard of equal protection under the law. CU is a state funded institution, and should not have carte blanche to make blatantly hypocritical decisions to the detriment of any of its students. The suspension of Sipili is bull****, unless the same standard is being applied to every student involved in a similar situation.
Mary KKKeenan may not have been able to get the convictions she really wanted, but it sure as hell looks like, in the big picture, she has won the war... :sad2:
But he's NOT being held to a different standard. He pled to an ASSAULT charge and the code of conduct clearly stipulates suspension for that. The other students involved, to my knowledge, have not been charged and/or convicted, so the Judiciary Committee has nothing to go on. If they are ultimately convicted, then I'm sure you'll see a similar suspension.
This wouldn't be applied to random fights that simply get broken up; it's meant to handle cases that actually are charged and run through the legal process, which Sipili's was.
There is no double standard here, people.
This wouldn't be applied to random fights that simply get broken up; it's meant to handle cases that actually are charged and run through the legal process, which Sipili's was.
There is no double standard here, people.
92Buff
Well-Known Member
I really hope he doesn't transfer. At this point, I really don't think it would make sense due to having to sit out at another Division 1 school. I really hope he comes back more charged than ever....but it probably comes down to the relationships he has built on the team and with the coaches.
I am disappointed since I really wanted to see what he and Dizon could do together, but who knows - maybe he and Major will have a chance to play together (fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!).
Does every student convicted of assault get the boot for the semester? If the answer is yes, then I'll agree with you. But I seriously doubt that is the case.
:yeahthat:
Jesus, 'Rino. Is every rule in the world applied EXACTLY the same to everyone? Of course not, because every situation is different, and we do not - and will not - ever know what the proceedings were for the Judiciary Committee. I'm am, though, willing to bet that every CU student who gets in a fight, does as much damage as Sipili did and then gets convicted of assault will be expelled from CU this year.
My only beef with this whole thing is the timing.
Kameltosis
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's way to excessive. He's done his time let him go.
I'm with 96 here. Lots of people are throwing around accusations about how football players are held to a different standard, etc. Whether it is Sipili or B-Jax or whoever. Nobody has presented any evidence of this here. The fact is the Sipili got into a fight and plead guilty to assault. The JC is within its bounds to hand down discipline. The timing is crap but that's a minor point.
Sipili has done a very good job so far of saying the right things and I believe that he has matured through all of this. I hope that continues.
Sipili has done a very good job so far of saying the right things and I believe that he has matured through all of this. I hope that continues.
I can't necessarily prove that Sipili was treated differently than any other student that pled guilty to assault. To be clear, my issue probably goes beyond the suspension to the assault charges themselves. This was a brawl involving several people. Sipili appears to be the only one facing charges. Fights happen around campus all the time, I'm sure. How many assault charges are filed? Yes, Sipili inflicted the most damage in this fight. Maybe he deserved assault charges, based on the damage inflicted. But he didn't start the fight, by all accounts. He came to the defense of somebody else. The instigators were not charged, and therefore are still in school. That is my problem - does this whole action make the campus safer? By letting the instigators of the fight stay and suspending somebody who got involved later? Would the assault charges have been filed if all these people had been poli sci majors who played in the marching band, instead of some being football players? Let's just say there has been plenty of reason to wonder about that, given the events of the last few years in Boulder.
You might be onto something here.
As 96 pointed out. Sipili is the only one charged, therefor he is the only one who can face discipline from the University.
You will never know the answer to this, so it is not worth fretting over. Face it, you are a Buff fan and want to see this kid on the field. Had it been a poli sci major who played in the marching band that got into a fight, plead guilty to assault and got suspended from the university you would never had heard about it. Further more if you had heard about it you would not question whether or not it was the right thing to do.
I do not have a problem with what happened as long as all of the rules and procedures were followed. As a buff fan, I am disappointed that Sipili will not get to play this year but I can live with it. If I wanted to go to a school where football players got off no matter what they did, I'd have gone to a SEC school or Nebraska.
Yes, I want to see this kid on the field. But MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, I want to see this kid treated fairly. To me that is worth "fretting over", but maybe I'm just funny that way. Maybe you are able to sit back and say that all is well in Boulder, and that because Sipili is the only one charged, he is the only guilty party. Sorry, but I lost that kind of innocence when it comes to the situation there a long time ago. So did anybody else who was paying attention.
Maybe it's ok with you that starting a fight is not considered assault in Boulder, but putting an end to one is, if the person who puts an end to it happens to be stronger and thus able to hit harder. I can't say that I am. I am not saying what Sipili did is right. It is very possible he deserves the assault charges. But from every account of the fight I have read, he is not the only one. There were other people involved - maybe not poli sci majors, maybe not in the marching band. But I did hear about them. And what I heard is that they participated in the same brawl, and most likely instigated it, and they are not being charged with any crime. And therefore they are not being suspended from the University. He is the only one charged, and that is a problem to me. That is my opinion, based on my concern about the treatment of football players in the past. Go ahead and continue to dismiss it as the delusions of a rabid fan, but I'm really curious how you can do so when I am willing to admit that Sipili's punishment might be appropriate, if it weren't confined solely to him. If you really can't understand that this point is about more than a middle linebacker, you may as well have gone to an SEC school or Nebraska...
Yes, I want to see this kid on the field. But MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, I want to see this kid treated fairly. To me that is worth "fretting over", but maybe I'm just funny that way. Maybe you are able to sit back and say that all is well in Boulder, and that because Sipili is the only one charged, he is the only guilty party. Sorry, but I lost that kind of innocence when it comes to the situation there a long time ago. So did anybody else who was paying attention.
Maybe it's ok with you that starting a fight is not considered assault in Boulder, but putting an end to one is, if the person who puts an end to it happens to be stronger and thus able to hit harder. I can't say that I am. I am not saying what Sipili did is right. It is very possible he deserves the assault charges. But from every account of the fight I have read, he is not the only one. There were other people involved - maybe not poli sci majors, maybe not in the marching band. But I did hear about them. And what I heard is that they participated in the same brawl, and most likely instigated it, and they are not being charged with any crime. And therefore they are not being suspended from the University. He is the only one charged, and that is a problem to me. That is my opinion, based on my concern about the treatment of football players in the past. Go ahead and continue to dismiss it as the delusions of a rabid fan, but I'm really curious how you can do so when I am willing to admit that Sipili's punishment might be appropriate, if it weren't confined solely to him. If you really can't understand that this point is about more than a middle linebacker, you may as well have gone to an SEC school or Nebraska...
No offense, but do you know the definition of assault? You do not get charged with assault for hitting somebody, you get charged with assault for actually hurting them. If you do not believe me, then please look it up in the Colorado statutes. Unfortunately Sipili was the guy that was the big guy who landed the punch that did all the damage. The reason the others were not charged with assault is because they did not commit assault. Now, did they commit something else? Menacing maybe.
For the record, I believe kicking him out of school for a semester is extreme but it is all within the law and the rules of the University.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
I only took 1 business law class so I may be wrong but I recall assault as a crime against a person with no physical contact. Physical contact constituted battery. If he plead guilty to a crime with no physical contact then I have a huge problem with the punishment. Can one of you legal beagles clarify?
First off, the definition of a particular crime can differ from state to state. From the current Colorado statutes:
Third Degree Assault:
A person commits the crime of assault in the third degree if the person knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another person or with criminal negligence the person causes bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon.
Second and First Degree add things like intent onto it.
Third Degree Assault:
A person commits the crime of assault in the third degree if the person knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another person or with criminal negligence the person causes bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon.
Second and First Degree add things like intent onto it.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Cool, thanks. It has been a while.
Again, I am not happy about Sipili being suspended from school and I think it was heavy handed. I just don't like the attitude that football players don't and can't get a fair shake in Boulder.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Again, I am not happy about Sipili being suspended from school and I think it was heavy handed. I just don't like the attitude that football players don't and can't get a fair shake in Boulder.
The attitude that they don't get a fair shake in Boulder is well founded. It will be a long time before most Buff fans will change their opinions on this one.
Chilly
Well-Known Member
Again, I am not happy about Sipili being suspended from school and I think it was heavy handed. I just don't like the attitude that football players don't and can't get a fair shake in Boulder.
Sorry but football players don't get a fair shake in Boulder. Hasn't that been proved already?
You are correct if we're talking civil torts: Assault is the threat of an intentional unwanted touching; battery is the actual unwanted touching. so if i throw a rock at you and miss: assault; Hit = battery.
Criminal statutes vary and in colorado, the crime of "assault" requires touching.
I believe Mike was charged with Second degree assault:
The difference between Second and Third degree assault appears to be based on the intent ("intent" vs "knowing/reckless") of the person charged and the degree of resulting injury ("serious" vs. non-serious):
In Colorado, the criminal equivalent of "Assault" in the civil context I described above (i.e., no touching) is called "Menacing":
So because Mike was not injured, the "victim" of his assault could not be charged with Criminal Assault, but depending on the circumstances could have been charged with Menacing, which is a misdemeanor unless a deadly weapon is involved.
Point taken. Maybe he was the only one who could be charged with "assault". From my reading of the statute, third degree assault, which is a misdemeanor. I do think that the instigators of the fight could have been charged with menacing, but they were not.
But when it comes to the suspension, we are back to the CU Code of Conduct. And what is says is:
CU Code of Conduct said:
http://www.colorado.edu/studentaffairs/judicialaffairs/downloads/studentcode200708.pdf
It says nothing about requiring an assault charge or conviction. I think starting a fight could be considered physical abuse. Don't you?? :huh: Even if not, I am pretty confident that starting a brawl would be considered to be "being involved in brawling". The Code is pretty straightforward, and it absolutely seems to me that everybody involved in the fight is technically in violation of it. So anybody who wasn't suspended must have been considered to have "specific and significant mitigating factors". I don't know if anybody did, but if anybody did, wasn't self defense or defense of a friend involved in a fight with multiple people about the best mitigating factor we've heard anybody in this incident having??
I think maybe you need to google the cases of Ron Monteilh and Akarika Dawn, for starters, then get back to us. You might also want to read Bruce Plaskett's book Buffaloed. If all that doesn't change your opinion of what a fair shake football players get in Boulder, I can't help you... :huh:
Over, and over, and over and over...
Until Mary KKKeenan is gone as DA, I don't think football players will get a fair shake in Boulder.
You smoke too much crack if you think they ever will.
Personally, I've seen Boulder PD and CUPD just as zealously destroy the lives on many people despite how small the mistep may have been. They didn't seem to discriminate very much in my experience. In the end I don't think Keenan or Lacy have that much to do with it. In the old days you could count on Plea it down Alex Hunter to make it go away. Oh well.
You seem to suggest we should give the members of the football team a free pass?
Absolutely not. I suggest they should be held to the same standards as other citizens and/or students when it comes to run-ins with the law. Nothing more, nothing less. But time and again, Keenan/Lacy shows us that's just a pipe dream as long as she is the DA.
I know it won't necessarily change when she goes away, but i can hope...
Deleted member 807
Guest
The infamous incident took place on the Hill, not on campus. This event took place in June, after the spring semester was over. Was Sipili taking classes when the violation took place?
How long is the reach of CU's Judiciary Council? If a spring breaker assalts a hobo on a beach in Mexico, does the CU Judiciary Council still have jurisdiction? Can a student be suspended for brawling that takes place overseas?
It seems to me that CU 1) doesn't believe the Colorado and Boulder judicial code is sufficient to handle crime and sentencing. 2) The Judiciary Committee knows how to render justice better than the professionals who handle law and as their day job. 3) Disciplinary measures by the CU athletic department don't count. 4) Double Jeopardy is appropriate, as written into the Code.
Just think of others act like the CU Judiciary Committee...
Mike Sipili's credit card company and bank desides to void his accounts.
Microsoft revokes Sipili's Windows XP license for violating terms of his software agreement.
Starbucks said that management has the right to refuse service to anybody. All Boulder franchises no longer welcome Mike Sipili.
Sports Illustrated cancels Sipili's subscription.
Ford Motor Company has voided the 65,000 mile warranty on his vehicle.
Doctors and dentists cancel all of Sipili's future appointments because brawling just can't be tolerated in Boulder County.
Unbelievable.
How long is the reach of CU's Judiciary Council? If a spring breaker assalts a hobo on a beach in Mexico, does the CU Judiciary Council still have jurisdiction? Can a student be suspended for brawling that takes place overseas?
It seems to me that CU 1) doesn't believe the Colorado and Boulder judicial code is sufficient to handle crime and sentencing. 2) The Judiciary Committee knows how to render justice better than the professionals who handle law and as their day job. 3) Disciplinary measures by the CU athletic department don't count. 4) Double Jeopardy is appropriate, as written into the Code.
Just think of others act like the CU Judiciary Committee...
Mike Sipili's credit card company and bank desides to void his accounts.
Microsoft revokes Sipili's Windows XP license for violating terms of his software agreement.
Starbucks said that management has the right to refuse service to anybody. All Boulder franchises no longer welcome Mike Sipili.
Sports Illustrated cancels Sipili's subscription.
Ford Motor Company has voided the 65,000 mile warranty on his vehicle.
Doctors and dentists cancel all of Sipili's future appointments because brawling just can't be tolerated in Boulder County.
Unbelievable.
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