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Spacing Effect Shooters Provide

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by jgisland, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Be warned, this is long, I got carried away.

    I read this blog post the other day about the “Spacing Effect” a shooter gives the offense. How shooters pull out defenders who could otherwise help on penetration or flood the paint for defense and rebounding. While this isn't groundbreaking basketball theory I immediately thought about CU, how much of CU’s offensive struggles are because of this, this lack of an outside shooter. So I went back and re-watched the Georgia and CSU games, it is amazing how quickly this became apparent. In the CSU game from the opening tip their PG (I refuse to learn his name) who was guarding Tomlinson would immediately double the post on every entry pass, leaving Nate open, this happened with the Mayor, Ski and Adams as well. They paid little attention to our guards roaming round outside, this completely clogs up the middle, prevents penetration and makes cutters and screens less effective. I have been harsh about Simba, but maybe his struggles are in large part due to the fact that he is being doubled every time he touches the ball. Dufault has played pretty well, but watch him in the post, he is nearly always doubled and has to work very hard to get to the rim. Levi’s presence on the court last season I think really helped open things up for Higgins and Burks and that is really lacking this year, teams always had to know where Levi was on the court.

    There could be a dynamite shooter on this team just waiting to unleash their fury, but figuring that doesn’t happen right away what should CU do?

    Pace – CU plays nearly right at the national average of pace. While I think the average pace factor will come down once conference play hits CU needs to push the pace and get out on the break. Dre, Ski, the Mayor and Chen have all showed the can finish in transition, so we just need to see more of it. This is Boyle’s style, so I am sure he is preaching this.

    Motion Offense – While Boyle does employ a “motion offense” guys aren’t exactly running off of screens all over the place. It is more down screens and flashes to the high post then a true motion offense. I really think their needs to me more movement in the half court, guys end up standing around on the off side way too often.
     
    HotRack, buff4bcs1985, btbuff and 4 others like this.
  2. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    gleeb gun empty, sorry. And I agree. Nate STILL isn't respected by defenders for his shot. He still passes up most open looks. And until Ski or the Mayor show that they will take and make most of those open jumpers (I think the Mayor is approaching this level) we don't have a single guy who takes those shots. Another solution is Adams... but he has yet to impress. Hope springs eternal though, and the Mayor is just hitting his stride while Adams has played in 2 games. I noticed he had a lot more minutes in game 2.

    The season is yet young...
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  3. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

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    got ya covered
     
  4. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    I am going to watch for this tonight. good post rep.

    So if we do have a shooter hiding on the roster somewhere who is most likely? Dinwiddie was a 39% 3point shooter at Taft so he might be the most likely, but his shot isn't as nice as Levi's last year.
     
  5. Buffs@5345'

    Buffs@5345' Club Member Club Member

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    count me in, on both
     
  6. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    This. If someone could hit him for me, I'd really appreciate it.

    Is that really Ski's game though? While I agree he needs to hit the open jumpers when they're there, so far he's been more of a slasher who attacks the rim IMO. I think the Mayor & Adams are going to be our best bets for that.
     
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  7. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    This is really screwing with Carlon's game. He's taking too many 3 pointers because that's what the defense is giving him. And then he doesn't drive with confidence because he knows he's forcing it. It would also help him a ton if someone who was any type of outside threat would set good screens for him. Cain can shoot from outside and that should help. But the big key her, I think, is Austin setting screens with more authority.
     
  8. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Totally not his game (he is shooting 40% from 3 however) but my point was that it wasn't just Nate they would leave to double they were doing it from all of our guards.

    CU is shooting more three's a game and at a higher % but I think that trend could continue and it still not matter into my "spacing effect" theory. CU just doesn't have that 1 guy to be afraid of, while CU has several guys that will end up with right around the national average of 3's (34ish%) but not have any that shoot it at the ridiculous rate Levi did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  9. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    No, it isn't. But if he keeps shooting ~40% for the season, it will be. And it will really help his inside game since guys will have to respect his shot.

    :lol: love your optimism man, but Austin is who he is, and he has NEVER been an authoritative screen setter. And that, at this point of his career, is probably not gonna change. However, hopefully he can start making some 3's.

    Adams could be that guy... but if we have 2 or 3 guys that will take the open 3 and nail it almost as often as they miss it, I think we SHOULD be ok. That means, to spread the floor, at least 2 of Nate/Mayor/Ski/Adams have to be on per night. Ya, we don't have a 50% 3pt shooter this year. So what? Most teams don't. But those guys should do the damn job.

    So far, they haven't. It is getting better though.
     
  10. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Another big issue is that our post men aren't aggressive enough. Draw the double team, kick out, and then you have to have a scorer's mentality if you get the ball again off a re-entry pass. I've seen our guys pass out of that or delay too long to make a move. We can't have that. Re-set in the post must = making a scoring move.
     
  11. btbuff

    btbuff It's an inside joke Club Member

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    I am going to watch shoot around closely again, but last time Adams was draining shots. He easily looked like our best possibility for a space creating three point shooter. I think he just needs to gain some confidence and experience.
     
  12. btbuff

    btbuff It's an inside joke Club Member

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    Agree with this. Both Dufault and Simba has really failed to not turn it over when he is double-teamed in the post.
     
  13. shang

    shang Member

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    Nice analysis, I rewatched the CSU game and u are dead on... also what irritates me is that in the half court motion, the weak side always seems to be hanging out and easily defended, not moving much, standing around a la princeton offense and the picks on the perimeter were weak at best...
     
  14. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    The weak side standing around drives me insane, I want to yell MOVE MOVE MOVE like a Coach yelling at 3rd graders.
     
  15. HotRack

    HotRack Rez BubbleHead Club Member

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    Got him for ya.
     
  16. BuffLuKe

    BuffLuKe Club Member Club Member

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    Carlon has to learn to move without the ball and set himself up. I know he's the shooter/slasher type and likes to work off screens but gotta move without it if it isnt there. Is he capable of that, I havent seen him enough to know.
     
  17. BehindEnemyLines

    BehindEnemyLines beware the habu Club Member

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    One thing that would help this is for one...any.... of the bigs to hit a few shots early. That will make the defense aware of them. Hell, one of the post players could knock down a couple of early baskets and end the game with 4 or 5 points, and the effect will be the same. The defense will adjust to account for them before half time. Then the kick-outs for the open-look jumpers will be there.

    Having a presence down low will affect how much room the wings/guards will have to shoot.
     
  18. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    I am afraid what we saw last night in the second half when Fresno went to the zone was in large part due to the spacing effect problem CU has on offense. The zone disrupts everything CU tries to do on offense. While CU did shoot well from the field and 3 point line (best shooting night of the year) they didn't make many outside shots overall (i can't wait until the shot tracker charts finally become available when CU starts conf games).

    Dinwiddie, dre and nate all shot the 3 well and at good times and spots in the offense, Carlon and Adams both seem to be a little to trigger happy. When nothing else is there and they have the open 3 they shoot it and usually it isn't at a good spot. Example: Adams shot a 3 in the second half against the zone well into the shot clock after he had been holding the ball for a few seconds, wasn't a good shot, he simply took the only thing that was there, that shot will always be there, you have to get something better.

    Fresno wasn't in the faces of the perimeters players, CU could have shot 3's all night against that zone had they wanted to.
     
  19. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    I wish Carlon was more trigger happy last night. He took two shots last night.
     
  20. shang

    shang Member

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    i'm surprised that there wasn't a stronger response by Coach to their zone defense...from a 20 pt lead to almost zip, little scary and tante, you are dead on, for the minutes carlon played, he only got 2 shots off, need at least 8-10 attempts from him....
     
  21. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    That's the most difficult thing for me to handle with Tad. He's a believer in the John Wooden philosophy of making the team play through its bad runs and turn it around on their own. So often, I'm dying for him to call a timeout to stop a run but he doesn't do it. In the long run, it definitely makes the team mentally tough, builds confidence, and puts them in position to peak at the right time. It's just so hard to watch them go through that while he sits there. It must take a ton of self-discipline on Tad's part to do things this way.
     
  22. shang

    shang Member

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    ok, after tonites loss to Wy. can we please work on breaking the zone like we worked on free throws last week??????!!!?!?!??!?!?!??! Every team we face this year is gonna use the zone... real simple to break...please.....
     
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    That was one of the ugliest halves of offense I have ever seen. Maybe only eclipsed by the inability to guard the post. There is a ton of stuff to work on.
     
  24. shang

    shang Member

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    no truer words..... and that this could be a long and ugly season....I'm surprised at one key stat that i don't think anyone picked up on, and i hate to say it... could be a result of to large a rotation? the assist stat of only 5 for the whole team. That second half, I hate to say it cuz we do have talented players, just they are not a "team" yet, was some of the same street ball I've seen in Venice CA, NYC and Oakland CA.....great athleticsm but no team cohesion and the end result is a loss...W/ Tad experimenting w/ the right mix of players, I for one would agree initially to put your best 5 athelets on the court, but guess what, we're now 5-4...I think its time to put our best 5 team players on the court.....just my opinion...
     

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