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Spencer vs. Alec - Sophomore Year Comparison

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by jgisland, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Somebody posted some something about Alec finishing better at the rim than Spencer and it got me thinking about the comparison. So I went back and looked at their Sophomore year.



    When I think of Alec I think of a few things. Good finisher at the rim, good rebounder and a lights out FT shooter. So when I compared each of these I was a little surprised at what I saw. Their FG% at the rim is identical (60%). Burks took a lot more shots at the rim (and overall) but the % they finished was the same. But Dinwiddie was able to get to the line at a much better rate than Burks. Dinwiddie gets to the line .75 times for every field goal attempted and Burks was only able to get to the line .52 times per FGA. Their FT shooting % was also virtually the same, 83% for Dinwiddie to 84% for Burks. Spencer took more shots from 3 but they had about same % made. They also shot about the same % and made the same % of 2 pt jumpers.

    PlayerFGATS%%Shots at RimFG% at Rim
    %Assisted at Rim%Shots 2pt JumpersFG% 2pt Jumpers%Assisted 2pt Jumpers%Shots 3ptFG% 3pt%assisted 3ptFTA/FGA
    FT%
    Dinwiddie2960.59121%60%21%35%40%14%44%33%58%0.7583%
    Burks4130.56737%60%32%45%41%16%18%32%42%0.5284%

    Adjusted +/-, Burks had the ball a lot more and took a higher % of shots compared to Dinwiddie so his offensive +/- is higher. But their offensive rating is nearly identical.

    PlayerOrtg% PossOff PMAdj Off P/M per 100 possTotal Value per 40 min% Min Played
    Spencer Dinwiddie114.7245.065.774.6580.5
    Alec Burks115.732.28.328.596.6777.7

    KenPom Stats - they are eerily similar. The biggest difference was Burks rebounding ability, he was a significant contributor on the offensive and defensive glass. Burks definitely dominated the ball on offense, something CU could have used a little more of at times with Dinwiddie this year IMO.

    PlayerHtWt%MinORtg
    %Poss
    %ShotseFG%TS%OR%
    DR%ARateTORateBlk%Stl%FC/40FD/40FTRate
    FTM-FTAPct2PM-2PAPct3PM-3PAPct
    Dinwiddie6 519080.1114.724.321.94959.119.820.217.11.62.52.46.276.7198-2400.82583-1740.47747-1390.338
    Burks6 618577.7115.732.230.849.557.49.214.819.614.81237.456.4249-3020.825223-4390.50828-960.292


    Not sure about anybody else, but this really surprised me. Burks seemed to be so dominant, maybe I was just so used to seeing terrible CU bball that Burks was so much better than anybody else wearing a CU uniform in recent memory that he seemed so good. But Dinwiddie is no slouch and his numbers stack up in nearly every category to Burks, and Dinwiddie is probably the better defender. Burks was a disinterested defender a lot of the time.
     
    Goose and tante like this.
  2. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

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    Spencer isn't nearly the threat that Alec was. Alec was assertive from tip to the final whistle.
     
  3. CVilleBuff

    CVilleBuff Club Member Club Member

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    Interesting. Dinwiddie often left us (or me at least) with the perception that he needs to finish a little better at the rim. Hard to increase his explosiveness much, but continuing to get stronger will help in a big way.
     
  4. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Alec seemed to get more "and 1s" at the rim. Might just be my perception.

    Anyway, what this tells me is that Spencer needed to be more selfish this year.
     
  5. jwhite17

    jwhite17 Member

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    Very interesting! Burks definitely could make more of those "and 1s" than Dinwiddie.

    Dinwiddie has a low post option in Josh Scott and a more talented team, something Burks never had (Dufault was the best big, and he was a role player that year!), which makes Burks special considering teams could clog the lane more often than they can with Dinwiddie/Scott out there. Thinking about it, that 2010 could really shoot the ball considering they didn't have a big.

    Burks was definitely a better athlete than Spencer but not as good as outside shooter. I agree that Burks was almost always aggressive.

    Burks carried the team more offensively, which is what I wish Spencer would do. Spencer plays too passive in the 1st half of games. He needs to realize he is our best player, and he needs to get himself going first and then help the team later. In doing so, it will open up our whole offense.

    If Dinwiddie can put on another 5-10lbs and learn to finish more at the rim, I think his scoring average can go up to 20pts/game, and he will be unstoppable, similar to Burks was his sophomore year except Dinwiddie is extremely dangerous when he can hit a few threes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  6. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Alec's lack of assertiveness on the defensive end was his biggest downfall. He was only assertive from tip to the final whistle on one end of the floor.
     
  7. Gold

    Gold Well-Known Member

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    Spencer struggled with both Baylor and Illinois being physical in the tourney and shut him down. Alec never stopped shooting and was rarely shut down on offense. He'd eventually break through. Chalk it up to Alex being the confident go-to guy. That might never be Spencer, but with the right cast it might not matter. He doesn't have to be Alec.
     
  8. mattrob

    mattrob Club Member Club Member

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    Thanks for putting that together jg. Other than the rebounding numbers, there's not much seperating them, other than % of shots taken and the fact Alec did a lot more work around the rim. It's going to be fun watching his development next year.
     
  9. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    Interesting numbers to look at. Different situations because Spencer has a much better team around him. Alec had Higgins and as mentioned Dufault was a decent role player but the team absolutely relied on Alec to score to have a chance to win. Spencer was this teams most important scorer but there were others who could carry the load when needed.

    This means a couple of things. One is that Alec had to be more aggressive offensively, he didn't have much choice. Spencer can at times put the load on other guys. On the other hand it also meant that defenses could put a lot more focus on Alec, Spencer played with more guys who could hurt you if you came off to double him or try to deny him his spots.

    This focus may have also had some of the blame for Alec's lower enthusiasm for defense. He always had the defense focused on him and had to work harder on the offensive end of the floor so he rested a bit on the defensive end. He also knew that the coaches didn't have much of an option to sit him for not playing defense.

    That said I think that Spencer is more self-inclined to play defense regardless of the situation around him.
     
  10. jwhite17

    jwhite17 Member

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    I agree with you MtnBuff. Burks didn't really have a good supporting cast compared to Dinwiddie's. Not nearly as talented either. Dufault and Tomlinson were role players at best. Only one good player off the bench in Knutson, and he was great offensively that year, but he wasn't a great athlete. Higgins was a solid college player that could do it all, but again, he was a mediocre athlete. Relphorde was a tweener that had to play out position and guard guys 2-5 inches taller than him. Roberson was the only post guy, and he was just a frosh that came off teh bench. That team could definitely score but defensively, they were very limited due to lack of size in the middle and switching from zone to man in Boyle's first year.

    Boyle has definitely brought in some athletes, but they don't shoot nearly as well as Boyle's first team could. I expect our shooting percentage to go up next year because we will finally have some guys to contribute off the bench and give our starters some rest. That will make a huge difference, especially at the end of the year. I hope we can find a sharp shooter off the bench. That would really open up our offense.
     
  11. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    I'm a huge believer having a shooter is key to an offense. Alec was keyed on so much, can you imagine if he didn't have Knutson? That would have totally changed the landscape of his and the team's play.

    Hopefully XJ, Jenkins and Fletcher can knock down 3's next year. Maye Dinwiddie can do work taking the ball to the hoop and if it isn't there he can kick to one of them for the open 3 on collapsing defenses. Having a 3 pt shooter would also make the double on Scott come a little slower and open him up in the post.


    *****************
    edit

    Reading my posts it sounds like I'm trying to say Spencer > Alec. Totally not the case, totally different situations and players. Just interesting to compare. I was just surprised that the numbers are as close as they are.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  12. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    can allbuffs fix the code so I can just auto rep jg whenever he posts. I'm really surprised and I agree with buffnik that it seemed like Burks was better at taking contact and still making the shot.

    Now you have me really worried that Spencer is leaving this year too.
     
  13. absinthe

    absinthe Ambitious but rubbish. Club Member Junta Member

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    I have it in my head that Burks just had a better court presence than Spencer, and didnt disappear the way Spencer has at times this year, and whined a lot less. They certainly are statistically very similar, and Spencer if anything has the better build but something about Burks was different.
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    to recap: Both players are about equally effective on offense, but Burks put a lot more effort in on offense than the Mayor, which he was able to do because he put very little effort in on defense.

    That said, Burks was more athletic than spencer in at least one very important way - lateral quickness. That first step around a guy was nasty. Also I think he was better with his off hand.
     
  15. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    The thing that stands out to me with Alec was that he seemed to always hang in the air a split longer than the defenders. It wasn't that he even seemed to jump much higher. More like he found a way to defy the laws of physics by falling to the ground more slowly than other guys. Hard to explain, but I know I witnessed this on numerous occasions.
     
  16. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Must be the shoes.
     
  17. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    There is no comparison, Burks was a major star in his second year. Opposing teams focused on stopping him. He was usually the best player on the floor including the opposing players. I like Dinwiddie but he is not in the same zip code as AB.
     
  18. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    Dinwiddie was the focus of opposing teams for a good part of the year. Stopping him from getting into the lane was a major part of Illinois' defensive scheme.
     
  19. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Their "slide under him at the last second after he has left the ground" defense was superb at this.
     

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