Superconference Fun

[dio]

UT can come, but they'd better be just another school, and CU better not get ****ed into being in some sort of 'Eastern Division' where we basically negate all the awesome things that we just gained by moving into the Pac

 

[Quattro]

With what kind of talent? I can tell you a lot less talented than CU

By far. It's amazing what having good coaching will do for a team...

 

[Buffnik]

As much as we talk about Texas, I also think there's a good chance that Larry Scott makes a play for Notre Dame. USC is their biggest rival and Stanford is probably #3 behind Michigan for them. As much as the Irish are a geographic fit for the Big 10, that could also be a thing that makes them less excited about being a conference member. The special status they enjoy is less special if they're the third team from Indiana in a conference. However, if they're the only team from the east to be a member of the Pac, things would be very different.

And, if ND jumped first and accepted membership with equal terms then it would be very hard for UT to then say they deserve special treatment. Could adding ND first by going to 14 with, say, them and KU be enough to break the Big 12 and force UT to come with some perspective and OU to come without OSU?

Is there a scenario where we bring in ND, KU, OU and UT?

 

[OriginalWhiz]

At cash-strapped OSU, we were for anything that would bring extra money and exposure to the conference. There would be some historical/traditional benefit too, since for many decades it was the Pac-8 teams all on the West Coast before the Arizona schools joined. The Pac-16 with Texas would've been awesome - expanded footprint, opened up Texas recruiting, additional exposure, and no doubt a HUGE increase in $$$$$ for schools like Oregon State due to a new TV deal. Winning wasn't too much of a concern, because if you win your division of 8 teams you're in the conference championship game. So not much different from trying to win the conference before except for adding the conference championship game. The $ was what we really needed to be able to compete with private schools like U$C or even Hole. Unfortunately, it became clear that Texas wasn't willing to be an equal partner. The Pac-10 schools would never go for that, least of all the L.A. schools which have plenty of clout in their own right. So I don't think it will ever happen now unless Texas is willing to make some major concessions re: revenue sharing and the Longhorn Sports Network.

Truthfully, I was kind of bummed when we just got the Pac-12. (NOT because of CU. I was hella stoked about the Buffs being in the conference, even though last summer I had no idea I'd be living here a year from then.) I just didn't think freaking Utah added anything, and it was a major letdown going from Texas, OU, etc. to bringing in a team (although successful) from a lower division and then having to split the pie two more ways. It turned out better than I or any other Pac-10 fans could've expected. The Beavs got more $, and I'm gonna get to have some good times at Folsom this fall! Yeahhhh!!!!! GO BEAVS AND BUFFS!!! :thumbsup::nod:

Very interesting from the perspective of the original Pac-10 schools. If I am WSU, Oregon St, etc, I am wondering about the benefits of the potential for additional funds for my program versus the prospect of becoming even a longer shot of ever winning anything in this new mega conference.

 

[OriginalWhiz]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't wanna share a conference with Hole. (Think UT arrogance only with much less success.) But what the hell can you do about geography?

I despise the idea of sharing a conference with Texas again, but I'm resigned to the thought that it's probably inevitable.

 

[OriginalWhiz]

I don't see it. The geography makes zero sense for bringing in Notre Dame. Plus, the Pac-10 is pretty firm about not wanting any religious schools. And there's no way ND would agree to come in as an equal partner. That's why they're still independent and not in the Big Ten.

As much as we talk about Texas, I also think there's a good chance that Larry Scott makes a play for Notre Dame. USC is their biggest rival and Stanford is probably #3 behind Michigan for them. As much as the Irish are a geographic fit for the Big 10, that could also be a thing that makes them less excited about being a conference member. The special status they enjoy is less special if they're the third team from Indiana in a conference. However, if they're the only team from the east to be a member of the Pac, things would be very different.

And, if ND jumped first and accepted membership with equal terms then it would be very hard for UT to then say they deserve special treatment. Could adding ND first by going to 14 with, say, them and KU be enough to break the Big 12 and force UT to come with some perspective and OU to come without OSU?

Is there a scenario where we bring in ND, KU, OU and UT?

 

[Buffnik]

I don't see it. The geography makes zero sense for bringing in Notre Dame. Plus, the Pac-10 is pretty firm about not wanting any religious schools. And there's no way ND would agree to come in as an equal partner. That's why they're still independent and not in the Big Ten.

Wouldn't ND make about twice as much as an equal member in the Pac than it does as an independent from its tv deal?

 

[OriginalWhiz]

Well, I haven't run the numbers, but consider the advantages Notre Dame enjoys as an independent:

1. Instead of splitting the pie 16 ways evenly, they get their own pie. They couldn't do that in the Pac-16.
2. They can arrange a creampuff schedule against whoever they want, thereby leading to more wins, higher rankings, more exposure, etc. In the Pac-16 they'd have to regularly be taking on USC, Oregon, UW, Texas, OU...(i.e. teams with a pulse.)
3. They can get into a BCS bowl with only a 9-3 record. With the joke schedule they typically play, that would be 7-5 in a real conference and not even close to a BCS berth. Huge windfall/payout, that they don't have to split with anybody.
4. Despite not being relevant in 20+ years, they still get a ton of attention. In the Pac-16 or another conference, they'd be just another one of 16 teams.
5. The four reasons above are reasons why it's better for them to not be in any conference. But I bet if they did give in and join a conference, they'd pick the Big Ten or even the Big East over the Pac-16. (They already compete in the Big East in hoops.) Just my humble opinion.

Wouldn't ND make about twice as much as an equal member in the Pac than it does as an independent from its tv deal?

 

[Buffnik]

Well, I haven't run the numbers, but consider the advantages Notre Dame enjoys as an independent:

1. Instead of splitting the pie 16 ways evenly, they get their own pie. They couldn't do that in the Pac-16.
2. They can arrange a creampuff schedule against whoever they want, thereby leading to more wins, higher rankings, more exposure, etc. In the Pac-16 they'd have to regularly be taking on USC, Oregon, UW, Texas, OU...(i.e. teams with a pulse.)
3. They can get into a BCS bowl with only a 9-3 record. With the joke schedule they typically play, that would be 7-5 in a real conference and not even close to a BCS berth. Huge windfall/payout, that they don't have to split with anybody.
4. Despite not being relevant in 20+ years, they still get a ton of attention. In the Pac-16 or another conference, they'd be just another one of 16 teams.
5. The four reasons above are reasons why it's better for them to not be in any conference. But I bet if they did give in and join a conference, they'd pick the Big Ten or even the Big East over the Pac-16. (They already compete in the Big East in hoops.) Just my humble opinion.

1. Only if the independent pie is larger than the slice of the Pac pie. I don't think it's even in the same ballpark.

2. Creampuff schedule? That might be perception, but it's not true. 2011: USF, Michigan, Michigan State, Pitt, Purdue, Air Force, USC, Navy, Wake Forest, Maryland, Boston College, Stanford. All the schedules from 2008-2015 look pretty damn tough. Their network obligations as an independent make it impossible for them to schedule games that won't draw viewers.

3. BCS pays ND only $4.5 million versus the $17 million that goes to conferences. They may make more than the equal payout that gets split among conference members (usually around $2 million for each school), but the conference doesn't cover their expenses. Maybe they bank more, but it's not much. Plus, ND only makes money if it's in the game. If they end up in the Texas Bowl, they're looking at under a million minus expenses.

4. This is the big reason they have not joined a conference. They and their fans like being "special". They're liking it less since things changed and they weren't also making the most money.

5. I also think they're more likely to the Big 10 or as part of a larger ACC that incorporates Big East teams. They conferences have academics on par with the Pac, as many rivalry ties, and they make more geographic sense. I just think that Scott will make a play for them since the ND brand is so valuable and there is a case to be made.

Edit: Found a 2009 article that estimates that ND's tv revenue from its NBC deal plus its share of Big East basketball revenue is in the $11 million range. That's less than half what a Big 10 program gets and the Pac-12 is supposed to be quickly approaching the $30 million range per school. LINK

 

[snakeyman]

UT can come, but they'd better be just another school, and CU better not get ****ed into being in some sort of 'Eastern Division' where we basically negate all the awesome things that we just gained by moving into the Pac

I think UT and TAMU should piggy back to the SEC.

 

[neil29fp]

Is there a scenario where we bring in ND, KU, OU and UT?

Now you sound like a Baylor fan.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

I just don't see ND to the Pac happening. Their rivalry with Michigan State is a pretty good and long-standing one and is at least #3 to them and I'd probably even put Purdue over Stanford. And think about the travel costs and inconveniences for all the non-revenue sports, it's a long haul from Indiana to the west coast. But the biggest reason I don't think it would happen is because if/when ND decides to get off their high horse and join a conference, I don't see the Big 10 letting them get away.

 

[MtnBuff]

A 16 team conference situated like that would probably be worthy of AQ status. May be able to negotiate a fairly decent television contract as well with some of the markets at play and be compact enough to keep travel costs in check. Although I would substitute UTEP for Tulsa.

Mountain
Boise State
BYU
Air Force
Colorado State
Iowa State
Kansas State
Nevada
UNLV

South
TCU
Baylor
Houston
SMU
Fresno State
SDSU
New Mexic
UTEP

I wouldn't want to see this but the reality of all this is that it is money driven. UTEP would likely be in but so would Tulsa, they generate enough dollars to justify it. The most likely to be left out, a school that has low TV ratings, poor attendance, and is outside of the hotbeds of college football, CSU.

For those who question Air Force they sell 45K seats a home game and get good ratings on TV, they also draw very well as a road team. Wins are nice, dollars are better, and Air Force wins in that competion compared to a lot of the other MWC/WAC schools.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

The PAC 16 actually wouldnt be to bad as far as travel and all that

California	Mountain		Midwest		Northwest		Colorado Schedule
UCLA		ASU		MW1		UO		OOC 1	H/A
CAL		UA		MW2		OSU		OOC 2	H/A
Stanford		CU		MW3		WSU		OOC 3	H/A
USC		UU		MW4		UW
								WSU	H
								USC	A
								Stanford	H
								MW 1	H
								MW 3	A
								UO	A
								ASU	H
								UA	A
								UU	H

We would be traveling to the Northwest, California, Midwest, and Arizona each year. That would benefit us if the midwest pod involved a couple Texas teams so we could maintain a foothold there. The bad part is we would not be guaranteed a trip to So-Cal every year but we would still be in California. Also with the pods it increases our chances to making the conference play offs (which will happen) From there we have to win 2 Games to get a spot at the rose bowl. Idk I think it could be a lot worse then we all fear.



And for those with too much time on their hands like me, a four year schedule could look something like this

Colorado Schedule
Year 1			Year 2			Year 3			Year 4
OOC 1	H/A		OOC1	H/A		OOC1	H/A		OOC1	H/A
OOC 2	H/A		OOC2	H/A		OOC2	H/A		OOC2	H/A
OOC 3	H/A		OOC3	H/A		OOC3	H/A		OOC3	H/A
WSU	H		Stanford	A		UCLA	H		UW	A
USC	A		WSU	A		OSU	A		MW2	A
Stanford	H		UO	H		MW2	H		MW4	H
MW 1	H		MW3	H		UA	A		CAL	H
MW 3	A		USC	H		UW	H		ASU	A
UO	A		MW1	A		MW4	A		UA	H
ASU	H		UA	H		CAL	A		OSU	H
UA	A		ASU	A		ASU	H		UCLA	A
UU	H		UU	A		UU	H		UU	A

 

[ScottyBuff]

Plausible Superconference scenario:
A&M, FSU, West Virginia, and Virginia Tech to the SEC.
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State to Pac-12.
Texas goes independent after flirting with Big Ten again.
Big Ten adds Maryland, Virginia, Notre Dame, and Missouri (after they offer North Carolina who declines because Duke cries about it)
ACC replaces their losses with the rest of the Big East (Syracuse, Pittsburgh, UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, Cincinnati) and then 1 of either Memphis, East Carolina, or Temple.
Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State, and TCU then try to cobble together a new "BCS-borderline" conference of Conference USA members and MWC schools, which also provides Texas their home for non-football sports.

 

[MrFrumpylane]

New Pac16 additions: UT, KU, ND, OU.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

New Pac16: UT, KU, ND, OU.

That would add two good basketball programs and two good football programs. If we can get ND away from Big 10 territory I would be even more impressed with Scott

 

[MrFrumpylane]

That would add two good basketball programs and two good football programs. If we can get ND away from Big 10 territory I would be even more impressed with Scott

I'd be down with this. Question is, would ND find joining the PAC conference just as appealing? Of course, the Big10 makes more sense geographically speaking and do have an academic reputation.. What does the PAC have to offer? There is the USC-ND rivalry and to lesser extent CU-ND rivalry.

EDIT: This is what I'd like to see if we were to upgrade to superconference. I'd rather stay at 12.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I'd be down with this. Question is, would ND find joining the PAC conference just as appealing? Of course, the Big10 makes more sense geographically speaking and do have an academic reputation.. What does the PAC have to offer? There is the USC-ND rivalry and to lesser extent CU-ND rivalry.

EDIT: This is what I'd like to see if we were to upgrade to superconference. I'd rather stay at 12.

If this stuff about the SEC is true, then it won't be a matter of if, its a matter of when. The thing we offer ND, is that since they are so far away from everyone, they are still special and unique. Even as a member of a conference.

 

[Darth Snow]

ND thing is way out in left field. What are you guys, baylorfans?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

ND thing is way out in left field. What are you guys, baylorfans?

It would just be an interesting possibility is all. Wont happen but I would like to see ND over Tech or Baylor

 

[MtnBuff]

The ND thing is in left field but. . . they already play USC and Stanford every year. They see themselves as an elite academic insititution with a lot in common with the PAC schools, they recruit nationally anyways. Who knows what they might do if asked.

If the superconference thing comes to pass they might see themselves as being forced. Their TV contract with NBC is lucrative but the new PAC TV deal might actually pay them more, and they like money.

Five years ago who would have thought that kNU would be in the Big 10, CU in the PAC along with UU, BYU independant, and A&M on the verge of joining the SEC?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

The ND thing is in left field but. . . they already play USC and Stanford every year. They see themselves as an elite academic insititution with a lot in common with the PAC schools, they recruit nationally anyways. Who knows what they might do if asked.

If the superconference thing comes to pass they might see themselves as being forced. Their TV contract with NBC is lucrative but the new PAC TV deal might actually pay them more, and they like money.

Five years ago who would have thought that kNU would be in the Big 10, CU in the PAC along with UU, BYU independant, and A&M on the verge of joining the SEC?

according to ESPN, school officials have confirmed that A&M will be joining the SEC.