The 2013 CU vs CSU game

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Did Einstein define insanity?

 

[Uncle Ken]

Did Einstein define insanity?

Literally, he did.

 

[MtnBuff]

Do you really think we have the kids the win against CSU "going away"? I'm not convinced our talent is really any better than CSU's. Our guys look small to me and it's not as if we are just oozing speed. With the talent issue, the fact that our offensive line is probably atrocious (while theirs is at least competent, if not good), and the fact that we are in a new system, I find it hard to believe we win this game, much less "going away". Please tell me I am wrong Mtn!

We are a bad football team talentwise, CSU is way worse. We are small and slow, they are smaller and slower. We have a bunch of kids on the roster who didn't have other legitimate BCS offers, they have a bunch who didn't have legitimate FBS offers.

As down as we are there is a significant talent gap. They have maybe 3-4 players who would be welcomed as scholarship players at BCS conference schools we have a lot who wouldn't but also a bunch who would. As pathetic as we were the last few years we had players drafted, how many did they have drafted the last few years.

The biggest issue we have against them is that by the end of last year we had a bunch of kids who didn't believe they could beat anyone,no matter how bad. We have a lot of issues but the biggest challenge that M2 may face is turning around the deeply ingrained acceptance and expectation of losing. CSU is a losing team as well but the weak sisters in the MWC gave them enough wins to at least think they can do it. Last years performance (or lack of) by the Buffs means that in their minds they know they can win this game. Our kids aren't there yet and won't be until they actually make it happen.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

We are a bad football team talentwise, CSU is way worse. We are small and slow, they are smaller and slower. We have a bunch of kids on the roster who didn't have other legitimate BCS offers, they have a bunch who didn't have legitimate FBS offers.

As down as we are there is a significant talent gap. They have maybe 3-4 players who would be welcomed as scholarship players at BCS conference schools we have a lot who wouldn't but also a bunch who would. As pathetic as we were the last few years we had players drafted, how many did they have drafted the last few years.

Reading this I can't believe CU ever loses this game.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Did Einstein define insanity?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

 

[MtnBuff]

Reading this I can't believe CU ever loses this game.

No the surprise is that CSU actually ever wins a game.

Reread the post. Nothing in it says we are a good football team. Post also states that we have a bunch of players who would not be given a scholarship at other BCS level schools (any other BCS level school.)

I just don't think it can be overstated how bad both of these schools are talentwise but as bad as we are talent should never be an excuse for losing to CSU.

 

[MtnBuff]

No the surprise is that CSU actually ever wins a game.

Reread the post. Nothing in it says we are a good football team. Post also states that we have a bunch of players who would not be given a scholarship at other BCS level schools (any other BCS level school.)

I just don't think it can be overstated how bad both of these schools are talentwise but as bad as we are talent should never be an excuse for losing to CSU.

Submitted early and it wouldn't let me edit to complete:

That said it isn't hard to see how CSU won last year. Talent is a big issue but coaching and attitude are also part of the deal. How many teams in the conference have better talent than USC, how many in the country? But they still managed to lose a number of games last year. It wasn't the talent that beat them in most of those losses, it had a lot to do with Kiffen and Co.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

No the surprise is that CSU actually ever wins a game.

Reread the post. Nothing in it says we are a good football team. Post also states that we have a bunch of players who would not be given a scholarship at other BCS level schools (any other BCS level school.)

I just don't think it can be overstated how bad both of these schools are talentwise but as bad as we are talent should never be an excuse for losing to CSU.

Has someone said that the reason CU has lost the CSU game is the talent on the field??? I don't ever remember a time when CSU had better athletes than CU did. And yet CSU has won 6 of the last 14 meetings between the two schools.

 

[Dark Bohner]

Has someone said that the reason CU has lost the CSU game is the talent on the field??? I don't ever remember a time when CSU had better athletes than CU did. And yet CSU has won 6 of the last 14 meetings between the two schools.

Talent disparity is weakest in the first game of the season. Players and coaches are adjusting to schemes, new starters, etc. It is especially the case with new coaching staffs. Once the players can just do, instead of think, then the talent gap starts to become more apparent.

 

[CUFan]

Has someone said that the reason CU has lost the CSU game is the talent on the field??? I don't ever remember a time when CSU had better athletes than CU did. And yet CSU has won 6 of the last 14 meetings between the two schools.

This is not what I was talking about/implying. I was talking about whether CU's talent right now is really any better than CSU's. I don't actually know the answer but I suspect the talent levels are frighteningly close.

 

[MtnBuff]

Has someone said that the reason CU has lost the CSU game is the talent on the field??? I don't ever remember a time when CSU had better athletes than CU did. And yet CSU has won 6 of the last 14 meetings between the two schools.

I don't think we are disagreeing.

We are a long way from being even competitive in the PAC12. Talent is big issue that needs to be addressed and in multiple dimensions. We need depth, we need game breakers, we need size, speed, skills, etc.

At the same time when a team has been as bad as we have been for an extended period of time there are things that just talent won't fix. M2 has a big hill to climb with this team in terms of attitude and confidence as well. It won't be made any easier by the number of teams on our schedule who are so much better than we are that we have little to no realistic chance of beating them even if they play poorly. For this program to turn around it is critical to beat the teams that we do have a reasonable chance to beat and that includes CSU.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Who do you expect will be the best player on the field when we play CSU? Maybe Richardson, he's shown flashes of talent far above most other players on either team (just flashes, though). Anyone else?

 

[DrunkPanda]

I think that CSU will try to manhandle us at the LOS with their big boys on the OL. They took care of some Freshman boys last year. A year should make a big difference.

I honestly think CSU is the weakest team on our schedule. But anytime you are introducing a whole new concept (offense and defense), and you are as young as we are, we should expect costly mistakes. CSU could win by having 4 big plays and not much all game. And of course, it's their super bowl.

Our offensive key will be to torch them on the blitz. Get it to a WR in man coverage on a quick slant and let's have a footrace. We did not have that last year. Nobody got of the LOS.[/QUOT
How is it that for the last seven years in a row, our team has been "so young".

 

[DrunkPanda]

They got off the bus in Fresno? That's news to me! I thought those were the cheerleaders suited up in football kit? Nah, cheerleaders would have at least tried to tackle someone wearing red.

Last year was last year. The second half turned around with :21 in the 1st half, when the Lammies scored. Until then, McElwain was dreading his half-time speech, as his players were ready to pack it in. Then.......BAM! TEH STOOPID! No way that will be repeated.

Oh God, I had blocked that moment out of my memory until you just mentioned it... Trying to field that punt was easily the worst coaching decision in football, since the non-safety call against UGA... truly two of the dumbest coaching decisions in the history of football and they were both made by CU, only a few seasons apart

 

[CUAviator]

...But anytime you are introducing a whole new concept (offense and defense), and you are as young as we are, we should expect costly mistakes.

This is what we said about CSU last year...being McElwain's first year and that he had to recruit fat kids from the student body to play o-line and whatnot. Then they won. I'm sick of the "new system so we're going to lose" crap.

 

[BlackNGold]

We are a bad football team talentwise, CSU is way worse. We are small and slow, they are smaller and slower. We have a bunch of kids on the roster who didn't have other legitimate BCS offers, they have a bunch who didn't have legitimate FBS offers.

As down as we are there is a significant talent gap. They have maybe 3-4 players who would be welcomed as scholarship players at BCS conference schools we have a lot who wouldn't but also a bunch who would. As pathetic as we were the last few years we had players drafted, how many did they have drafted the last few years.

The biggest issue we have against them is that by the end of last year we had a bunch of kids who didn't believe they could beat anyone,no matter how bad. We have a lot of issues but the biggest challenge that M2 may face is turning around the deeply ingrained acceptance and expectation of losing. CSU is a losing team as well but the weak sisters in the MWC gave them enough wins to at least think they can do it. Last years performance (or lack of) by the Buffs means that in their minds they know they can win this game. Our kids aren't there yet and won't be until they actually make it happen.

I do not think there is as big of talent gap as some would like to believe. According to some on this board after the top 15 teams you cannot tell the difference in recruiting rankings (not that I agree with that point of view). CU certainly has some athletes that are way better than CSU - Prich, CUD, but after that it drops off quickly. So I do not see CU having a huge talent advantage - just a slight one. And with that it is going to come down to which team plays better. As compared to Alabama who can bring their D game against CSU and still wipe the field with them.

CU has to get back to the point where we have a big talent advantage but we are not there yet.

 

[CUFan]

This is what we said about CSU last year...being McElwain's first year and that he had to recruit fat kids from the student body to play o-line and whatnot. Then they won. I'm sick of the "new system so we're going to lose" crap.

I guess "new system" is still better than "no system".

 

[dio]

I just got my 'bag policy' email from the school. No backpacks :lol:

 

[dply]

I just got my 'bag policy' email from the school. No backpacks :lol:

And no purses bigger than your hand.

 

[absinthe]

Plati has a history of massaging numbers in order to fit his personal agenda. I suspect we are nowhere close to 25k. Plus, there are a lot of people who are forced to buy tickets that have no desire to subject themselves to Invesco Gulag at Pat Bowlen temple of civic blackmail.

Sacky we have 22k season ticket holders.

 

[absinthe]

I just got my 'bag policy' email from the school. No backpacks :lol:

NFL bag policy

 

[dio]

Doesn't impact me, I'm one of the season ticket holders who doesn't go to this game

 

[Duff Man]

I don't think the talent gap is really that large. I still come back to whether we can answer when the game turns physical. We never really answered in any games last season. I am not expecting us to be a very physical team this season, but I do expect us to be tougher both mentally and physically. If not, we got issues.

Against CSU, they outgained us 201-89 in the second half last season with three drives of over 50 yards. We had zero.

 

[RalphieSpeaks]

I don't think the talent gap is really that large. I still come back to whether we can answer when the game turns physical. We never really answered in any games last season. I am not expecting us to be a very physical team this season, but I do expect us to be tougher both mentally and physically. If not, we got issues.

Against CSU, they outgained us 201-89 in the second half last season with three drives of over 50 yards. We had zero.

CU still has more talent. The issue was coaching last year.

I don't think CU wins many games this year but this is one that they will.

 

[Duff Man]

We have more talent. The problem is the gap has shrunk considerably.

 

[Buffenuf]

We have more talent. The problem is the gap has shrunk considerably.

"Considerably"??? Its really hard to tell if that's true or not, based upon the past two years. WB&CO so fouled the waters, that its impossible to over-rate the negative impact that staff had on the players' raw talents. Impossible! WB could have "coached" the talent at U$C to a 3-9 record! So his results should not form more than a scintilla of the basis of any opinion on level of talent.

Looking strictly at star-power among recruits and ultimate results in the form of NFL signees, one would say that gap still exists to a great extent.

 

[SINKRATZ]

"Considerably"??? Its really hard to tell if that's true or not, based upon the past two years. WB&CO so fouled the waters, that its impossible to over-rate the negative impact that staff had on the players' raw talents. Impossible! WB could have "coached" the talent at U$C to a 3-9 record! So his results should not form more than a scintilla of the basis of any opinion on level of talent.

Looking strictly at star-power among recruits and ultimate results in the form of NFL signees, one would say that gap still exists to a great extent.

The gap narrowing didn't start with Embree.

 

[Duff Man]

"Considerably"??? Its really hard to tell if that's true or not, based upon the past two years. WB&CO so fouled the waters, that its impossible to over-rate the negative impact that staff had on the players' raw talents. Impossible! WB could have "coached" the talent at U$C to a 3-9 record! So his results should not form more than a scintilla of the basis of any opinion on level of talent.

Looking strictly at star-power among recruits and ultimate results in the form of NFL signees, one would say that gap still exists to a great extent.

You really just typed with a straight face?

And yes, I think it is fair to say that from 2010-present, the talent gap has shrunk considerably. Not everything can just be freely explained away by coaching, though you certainly seem to be trying very hard.

 

[Buffenuf]

You really just typed with a straight face?

And yes, I think it is fair to say that from 2010-present, the talent gap has shrunk considerably. Not everything can just be freely explained away by coaching, though you certainly seem to be trying very hard.

Not straight, corners turned down......for the impact of coaching (or total lack thereof) look at everyone's favorite pedophile school: State Penn!

They lost their coach, as well as a third or more, including many of their better scholly players as a result of the Sandusky mess, and had every rason to quit, yet they were winners and a real factor in their B1G division, despite that mess. No one would have given them a hard time(except maybe a judge) had they gone 1-11, but Kelly and staff refused to allow that to happen; exact opposite of what occurred in Boulder.

 

[Duff Man]

Not straight, corners turned down......for the impact of coaching (or total lack thereof) look at everyone's favorite pedophile school: State Penn!

They lost their coach, as well as a third or more, including many of their better scholly players as a result of the Sandusky mess, and had every rason to quit, yet they were winners and a real factor in their B1G division, despite that mess. No one would have given them a hard time(except maybe a judge) had they gone 1-11, but Kelly and staff refused to allow that to happen; exact opposite of what occurred in Boulder.

So for future reference, star ratings do matter in recruiting? Or will that only apply in special circumstances?

Penn State had a good season in 2012. Partly because, despite the mass attrition, they still had more talent than many schools they played. Any other cool stories that are in no way analogous to the present situation at CU you would like to share?