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The future of this program

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by dabuffffs, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. dabuffffs

    dabuffffs New Member

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    We are now 1-4. People sound happy about tonights effort compared to the complete implosion against CSU and Toledo, but it doesn't matter, there is no moral victory in being 1-4. Hawkins is embarrassing a very proud program. He is simply not suited to be here.

    We need to make changes at the end of the season. We very well may not win another game, based on the way ISU played today. KSU could be a win, but its on the road, and last year we only won because Hansen somehow outran a VERYYYY bad KSU defense. They actually have a good coach this season, I will not pencil in any game as a given for CU the rest of the season.

    Even if we beat both KSU and ISU, a likely finish will be 3-9 or 4-8. I don't care if it costs us $5 million to buyout Hawkins contract, it must be done. The humiliation he has brought this program since he arrived is pathetic.

    I see our situation very similar to that of Washington's. They brought in a high profiled coach (Willingham) who did not fit whatsoever, and drove the program down to the bottom of 0-12. As seen this year, they obviously are much more talented than a typical 0-12 team would be. Sarkasian just coaching good talent the way it is supposed to be coached has made them likely an upper half of the Pac-10 team this season.

    The same can be done here with a decent coach. Hell, if we had a guy like Sarkasian, we could be competing for the Big 12 North. This program has talent. However if we wait out Hawkins contract even one more season, we will not be able to attract talent as nobody is going to want to play for a guy who has shown absolute incompetence since he arrived. He simply is not a coach for a BCS school. People sometimes give him the benefit of the doubt for 2006, as he had to clean up the mess from the previous regime, however I am in the camp that say a good coach can make even mediocre talent good on the field. Look at the numerous surprise teams every year, a great coach with mediocre talent is better than an awful coach with pretty good talent, which is what we are at now.

    I feel with the right hire we could be a rebounding program like Washington is this year by next season. However hiring the right guy isn't a given considering the two hirings Bohn has had have been flops (though the basketball program was pathetic from the beginning).

    Point is, in the long term we will suffer more by continuing with Hawkins. I see no way we hold onto a coach who is regressing. This has to be a purely business move. There is nothing smart from a business perspective by keeping a lame duck coach at the helm. We will just continue to deteriorate, and by the time we let go of Hawkins and bring in a coach with some competence, we will have imploded so far it will take significantly longer to be successful.

    By the end of the season, unless things miraculously turn around in the next few weeks, Hawkins has to be let go, no matter the cost.
     
    Buffy-too and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Hi.O

    Hi.O Member

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    We really need to give Hawkins till the end of the season before we decide what to do.
     
  3. dabuffffs

    dabuffffs New Member

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    I didn't say fire him now, there is nothing to gain by letting him go at this point. But I don't think we'll beat Kansas next weekend. We will be 1-5 by this time next weekend. I don't see anyway Bohn or McCartney can continue to defend Hawkins if he routinely loses games. There should be serious discussions about our programs future from the administration. He simply is not getting the job done.

    There is no pride in a loser. Hawkins every week gets outcoached. This weeks game was really a game that was in reach, but while our defense improved this week, our special teams and quarterback situation continues to lose games for us. The fact that the guy sticks up for the WORST KICKER IN THE NATION baffles me.

    At this point, quoting the man himself, there can be no more excuses. He's had 4 years to show at least SOME improvement. At year two yes we looked like a program heading upwards. But we are now regressing. Last year we very well could have been 2-10 or 3-9. This year is shaping up to be the same way. Even if we win another 5 games this season barely beating the scrubs of the Big 12, this current coach can not continue. Coming back to beat ISU is nothing to be proud of. We are discouraging potential recruits. Players are transferring. Something is wrong and changes have to be made. Wipe the sheet clean, start over and eat our losses. Thats all we can do.

    But yes, wait till the end of the season. Midseason firings aren't ideal, however the changes must inevitably be made.
     
  4. Hi.O

    Hi.O Member

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    Well you can't just blame the bad offense on him, then give him no credit for a good defensive game. But firing Dan Hawkins right now means we probably won't have enough money to hire a premier coach. Then we'll have to start all over again, and there's not guarantee the next guy will succeed either. Just give this guy some more time, we showed some signs out there last week against WVU and tonight against UT.

    I just feel like it'd be better off for this program to stick with Hawkins. He's doing some good things. Our D-line played well today and those guys were all recruited by Hawkins. Our CB's didn't really get burnt except Brown on Shipley, but whatever. And for some reason I really really expect our O-line to progress as the season goes on. We just need to hit on all cylinders, play a full game on Offense, Defense, and Special Teams. We haven't done it all year.
     
  5. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    This is a well-written, compelling post which contributes to the dialogue, rather than distracting from it with unchecked emotion and petty agendas.

    Regardless of whether not I agree with the post (though I pretty much do at this point) DaBuffs gets a rep for his thoughtful approach to the debate.
     
  6. stampy

    stampy Well-Known Member

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    Before last night I thought we had 1 more potential win. Now, I think their is an outside chance they could actually compete for the North. They will not give up many points if the D can play with that kind of intensity for the rest of the season. Also, the three best teams in the north all have to come to Folsom.

    I gave Hawkins almost no chance to save his job prior to last night. Now, I give him a solid shot...and I'm pulling for him.
     
  7. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    You're a ****ing flip-flopper. This post belongs in the Politics forum.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. 14er

    14er “Imitation is suicide.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Catch 22 - I want CU to win every year, but I just can't understand the decisions on personnel and a majority of the game plans. I was on the Hawk bandwagon from day one but "you are what your record says you are" and I think this team (here I go) could be really good next year with the right coach. Can we win the North and still get a new coach next year? That is what I am hoping for. Hawk love has run it's course.
     
  9. stampy

    stampy Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetically if we win the North and then lose in the B12 championship by 67, Bohn has been known to pull the trigger.:huh:
     
  10. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me or does is seem for the first time under Hawk, CU has been improving each week?
     
  11. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Maybe.

    The trick, he must have learned, was to really underperform at the beginning.

    All that coming out strong nonsense (erm, Montana State aside) was kicking his ass.
     
  12. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    Colorado is definitely improving each week. But how hard is it to improve from where we were at against CSU and Toledo? We looked great last night for the first 2-1/2 quarters. Now if we can just play like that for 4 quarters, We'll win some ballgames.
     
  13. The Guest

    The Guest Guest

    Putting together four quarters hasn't been a strong point for this team in the last several years.

    Even those wins over nebraska, Oklahoma and WVU were really two quarter performances.

    I would like to see a full game, though.
     
  14. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    We could also use a little more help from the O. We did pretty well in the first half. Got 14 points. But it looked really poor is the second half of the game.
     
  15. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Not just you.

    But I am wearing my buff-colored glasses again.

    I SO want to believe we are turning the corner, every little positive movement seems like a mountain has shifted.
     
  16. Daaah

    Daaah Club Member Club Member

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    Our 14 points in the first half were produced from less than 100 total yards. The offense sucked balls the whole game.
     
  17. SJBuff

    SJBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I see the D improving. The O put up 14 and gave away 7. They were better against CSU. The O is floundering...for another season...again.
     
  18. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Seems the 2nd half has been the struggle the last 3 weeks,even wyoming game. Whether it's adjustments or focus,they seem to have a hard time getting a consistent push on offense.
     
  19. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    Thats a pretty good summary of where were at.

    We do have talent. The defense played very well last night. And thats something that can be built on.

    For me the OL needs probably 2 recruiting cycles to get back to depth and strength and experience. Or our conditioning or coaching needs to be elevated. It all starts up front. Without the OL dominating were not gonna be successful on offense. Cody got hit a lot. Hansen got hit a lot. Of the three S's only Stewart was a consistent rushing success.

    Hawkin's has a few strikes against him now;

    1) Predicted numerous wins, we have 1.
    2) Names his son starter, which I supported cause I assumed he was making the best decision for the team. Burns Hansens RS last night and you could see the shock on the sidelines. Too little too late? Has he lost the team?
    3) Failed to recruit or retain sufficient talent on OL and at WR in particular. The same problems he happened to inherit from GB.

    If Hawkins is still here at the end of the year it will not be that surprising. I doubt he will at this point but money might be an issue. That will be kind of depressing. I know that he knows that he's in a world of hurt right now. It comes with the job. Few coaches turn in 1 win and live to tell about it. I also know that hes smart enough to see the future screaming towards him like a freight train; either your fired or you better relearn your job before next September if you get that chance.
     
  20. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    As Dr Tom predicted; the South will dominate the North. OSU used to be a joke. If they were in the North they'd be kicking out butts year in and year out. To me I see the argument as proximity to Texas; the closer the team is to the state the more talent they have. Over half of the OU team is from Texas. Hell, maybe they should realign the conference into east and west.

    Anyway, we lack the big time play maker at WR. We have to start going back into Texas and start getting some skill players away from ascendant schools like TCU and Houston as well as some of the bigger boys. Our OL is struggling and that makes it easy for teams to pick on us.
     
  21. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    What's your thought when Toney Clemons is in the mix next year?
     
  22. MiamiBuffs

    MiamiBuffs Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs Club Member

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    He's a huge step in the right direction. :thumbsup:
     
  23. dabuffffs

    dabuffffs New Member

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    People keep saying we don't have money, however, we play in the Big 12, and correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the Big 12 make something like $120 million last season? Didn't we earn around $9 million for just being apart of this conference? Where is all this money going?

    The Big 12 is on tract to probably make the same amount this season. We could have both the football and basketball champions this season. Big 12 will be the best all around basketball conference, and we will benefit from that despite being the bottom in basketball. How is it that we don't have any money?

    If I were Hawkins, and he finishes out with 1 or 2 wins, I would approach Bohn and tell him I will resign for say $1.5 million. I don't know how the guy could end this season winning 2 games and holding his head high in optimism for next year. Nobody could take this guy seriously as he just continues to speak very loud and carry a small stick. He could go pick up at a Conference USA team where he would probably thrive and the school would love him, before he continues to taint his own reputation.

    This program is not progressing, we are regressing, every week is one step forward, two steps back. If after next week we lose and fall to 1-5, I just don't see how support for Hawkins can continue. He seemed to feel the heat after falling 0-2. Then he won, then he lost to a better team in WVU. He lost to Texas but that game was in reach. If by the Kansas game we don't pull out a win, this talk about how we're "close to turning the corner" just can't continue because no matter how close we're getting, we just simply aren't getting there.
     
  24. Unleash Hell

    Unleash Hell Well-Known Member

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    I thought Simmons and Simas would be big time this year.:sad1:
     
  25. Hank

    Hank Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. But it's almost impossible not to improve after the performances in the first two weeks. There was only one way to go: up.

    Unfortunately for Hawk, weekly improvements don't matter when you are in your 4th year. Winning does matter.

    While we were not humiliated nearly as bad as I expected, last night further demonstrates how this team is headed in the wrong direction (long term). The offense was pathetic. They could not get a play off without a false start. The punt formation is just stupid. Gimmicks are fine - if they work. I am glad to see Cody is out. This move should have been made weeks ago. We should have never been put in a position where a quarterback with Cody's limited ability was the opening day starter for three consecutive seasons.
     
  26. west coast

    west coast Guest

    all this optimism for what? holding an extremely overrated and unemotional texas to 38? please catch a clue. im glad your pulling for hawk but people that misconstrue that first half for something other than dumb luck don't know ****.when we finish with 1 or 2 wins please jump back on the fire this dumbass bandwagon!
     
  27. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    Possible reasons:

    Simmons arrived and was cleared SO LATE he is just getting settled 5 games in.
    Simas --- was his second game after suspension ran out.

    It's always possible time will reveal talent.
     
  28. buff4bcs1985

    buff4bcs1985 Hail to the King

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    why the **** are you so damned negative... who cares if tejas was uninspired it was a legitimate ray of light the first one in all year so yeah we suck and yeah we are bent outta shape but they played their asses off and all you do is call it dumb luck you're a ****ing hack
     
  29. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    There is not a game left that we can't win. So, there. I've set the bar for what I expect. I expect us to compete for, if not win, the North.
     
  30. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    3) Failed to recruit or retain sufficient talent on OL and at WR in particular. The same problems he happened to inherit from GB.

    The statement about the OL is just false. Maybe the talent has not panned out or been injured, but you cannot say that sufficient talent has not been recruited. His first year we had to go half line in the spring game because a lack of O-lineman. Preseason, our line was being touted as a strength and a top-notch unit nationwide.

    WR - different story.
     

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