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The jury is in.

BuffNut99 said:
This same logic would have had Barnett fired after the Fresno St. loss in 2001.
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Noooo! Barnett had a proven track record, turned around a program that was a perennial cellar and won 2 BCS conference championships. Barnett had experience as a coordinator and as a HC before being hired. Big difference, and that is showing on the field. If these guys love the school and football that much, they must be honest with their own limitations and quit at the end of the year for the sake of the program and the players the brought in.
 
BuffLuKe said:
I have a hard time believing Powell couldnt have scored from a half yard out, we run a pa roll. He threw the damn ball away, umm its 4th down, force that **** if u have to, backside te was open too. Yes coaches played a big role.
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EB really choked, no doubt.
 
F.I.M. said:
Right now everything is poor, all the way down to the states general attitude about its flagship universities football program. Does the state of Colorado love their Buffs? No.
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Look at Tad in basketball. The community is hungry for a winner. So hungry. The support is there, but it's been abused for decades.
 
I was looking at the state as a whole. I was in Pueblo and the Springs to see family last week. I was out a lot shopping, restaurants and the like. The Buffs just aren't being talked about much.
 
FWIW - I think CU must give JE & EB a minimum of three years absent exigent circumstances. They did inherit a mess. The damage was already done. We need to give these guys a fair shake.
 
I understand people saying some patience is needed. I really do. But I am really struggling to understand how the offense is going to get much better between now and the end of the 2013 season. The pieces are mostly going to be the same, outside of a few exceptions (namely Richardson).

I saw a defense that could potentially have some good players to build around down the line. The offense looks like a mess.

We have failed to score 20 points in 9 out of 14 games under this staff. A 20 point average is good enough to be ranked dead last in the conference. To reach the middle of the pack in the conference, you need to get right around 30 points.
 
Hank said:
FWIW - I think CU must give JE & EB a minimum of three years absent exigent circumstances. They did inherit a mess. The damage was already done. We need to give these guys a fair shake.
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we have no other choice-
I will root for them and will give Embree till the end of next season before I become overly vocal.
Looks like the QB from Washington could be a good one & we may have a good one already on campus (Dillon)
 
Hank said:
FWIW - I think CU must give JE & EB a minimum of three years absent exigent circumstances. They did inherit a mess. The damage was already done. We need to give these guys a fair shake.
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Look we didn't lose to USC or Oregon yesterday. We got outcoached by a 3 win mwc team with a first year coach. They lost their best defensive players and pushed what they said was going to be our best unit (the oline) around. You can't tell me that sparkles had a better situation than embree.
 
I'm tired of players not playing to their potential.
I'm tired of players not playing as a team.
I'm tired of players not playing with heart.

I understand that we can't be real contenders until we get more talent but these things don't take more talent to fix. These things don't take a whole season to fix. I was generous and gave Embree all last season to fix them and it appears that he has squandered it because we are no better now than when KU came from behind in the 4th qtr to beat us.



Embree may be a good guy but he is not the solution.
 
buff4bcs1985 said:
apparently embree is saying that it was his play call
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add this, from Yahoo"We had three options on that play: a run and then two guys to throw it to, and they did a good job of defending it," said Embree. "We felt that was better for us. Our backs, Tony (Jones) was out with a shoulder and Malcolm (Creer) got dinged on that so we felt our best option at that point was doing that"
 
cu2x said:
add this, from Yahoo"We had three options on that play: a run and then two guys to throw it to, and they did a good job of defending it," said Embree. "We felt that was better for us. Our backs, Tony (Jones) was out with a shoulder and Malcolm (Creer) got dinged on that so we felt our best option at that point was doing that"
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So much for the big time trust in Powell..
 
cu2x said:
add this, from Yahoo"We had three options on that play: a run and then two guys to throw it to, and they did a good job of defending it," said Embree. "We felt that was better for us. Our backs, Tony (Jones) was out with a shoulder and Malcolm (Creer) got dinged on that so we felt our best option at that point was doing that"
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Or ****ing kick the ball and take the lead.
 
Hank said:
FWIW - I think CU must give JE & EB a minimum of three years absent exigent circumstances. They did inherit a mess. The damage was already done. We need to give these guys a fair shake.
Click to expand...

Duff Man said:
I understand people saying some patience is needed. I really do. But I am really struggling to understand how the offense is going to get much better between now and the end of the 2013 season. The pieces are mostly going to be the same, outside of a few exceptions (namely Richardson).

I saw a defense that could potentially have some good players to build around down the line. The offense looks like a mess.

We have failed to score 20 points in 9 out of 14 games under this staff. A 20 point average is good enough to be ranked dead last in the conference. To reach the middle of the pack in the conference, you need to get right around 30 points.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm not saying Embree should be fired at this point, much less that he will be. But I can't be encouraged by what I'm seeing. Particularly with the coordinators. Getting outscored 13-3 in the second half by CS****ingU, and allowing them to put together big drive after big drive in the fourth quarter is just bad. Being held to 3 points (after being spotted 2 possessions in CSU territory) is even worse. Seeing them outphysical us, wear us down and basically assert their will in the fourth quarter? That just CAN NOT happen. And what may bother me the most is that this was supposed to be the greatest recruiting staff in the history of ever. The lack of playmakers was going to be fixed by all the great players they were going to bring in. That was the offset to the lack of HC/coordinator experience they brought. So far, not so much....

cu2x said:
add this, from Yahoo"We had three options on that play: a run and then two guys to throw it to, and they did a good job of defending it," said Embree. "We felt that was better for us. Our backs, Tony (Jones) was out with a shoulder and Malcolm (Creer) got dinged on that so we felt our best option at that point was doing that"
Click to expand...

So basically, we just couldn't come up with a good option to pick up less than a yard against CSU?? Well, that's certainly encouraging. First of all, if losing a 5'6, 170 lb running back is going to derail your goal line offense, you may need to reconsider your approach to building your RB corps. And Creer looked OK earlier in that series and later - he couldn't have taken the ball? And if he couldn't, what the hell is that top 5 FB from the last recruiting class doing on your roster? Your QB could barely walk, so a run was probably not really an option on that play. If you were counting on that, you weren't watching him that entire series. And that situation is the easiest situation in the world to cover the pass. Short, short field, and your WR corps isn't exactly bursting with athleticism. That is not the situation where you surrender the LOS, send your gimpy quarterback running around and hope that a receiver happens to come open in the half of the field your QB now has to throw to. You already tried that on second down and had to throw the ball away (with 5 yards more to work with...) It is a situation where you HAVE to be able to walk to the line of scrimmage, impose your will, knock their asses back into the end zone and carry the ball in. Preferably with a Vickers style smackdown in the process. That kind of attitude frankly doesn't require the greatest playmakers, the most electric speed, or even the most technically competent offensive line. What it does require is the attitude that you are the baddest mother****ers on the field and that you are going to prove it. I saw one team that seemed motivated to prove that yesterday, and it wasn't CU. That goal line play was a perfect example. A chance to line up, stare them in the eye and fight it out. We backed down before the ball was even snapped...
 
Anyone here from Embo? There was hardly any quote from him in the paper. Embo, whutchya got to tell us? I'm waiting with baited breath.
 
I hang this squarely on Embo and staff. I thought that these guys above all others would be able to instill in the players that we cannot lose to CSU. Does tOSU lose to Ohio, ASU to North AZ, Iowa to Northern Iowa? The team folded like a cheap tent after the muffed punt in the second qtr and the game was over. I'm sick and tired of investing my heart and soul into this program only to get kicked in the gut with an iron boot. We cannot afford another 5 years like the last five, these are sad times indeed.
 
Benson should be in DiStefano's grill who should be in Bohn's grill who should be in Embree's grill who should be in EB's grill who should be in Marshall's grill, who....**** this. I'm so sick and tired of this ****.
 
BuffLuKe said:
I have a hard time believing Powell couldnt have scored from a half yard out, we run a pa roll. He threw the damn ball away, umm its 4th down, force that **** if u have to, backside te was open too. Yes coaches played a big role.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I don't care if he takes a sack there if he has to wait for someone to get open. Plus, he was so gimpy he couldn't evade a big, slow lineman. All he had to do was pump fake and cut back to his left. BTW, our end did not even try to block that guy. You have to seal off the edge there. Then, on our last play of the game with 4th and 2, EB tries almost the same god damned play. Other than it was a screen. We were totally out coached. This staff gets out coached on a regular basis. And that is not good. They had an entire off season to learn from their ****ing mistakes and they didn't learn jack****.
 
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I truly believe Embree will turn this around. Unfortunately, yesterday showed it's going to take longer than most of us want/are willing to accept. On the other hand, the more we continue losing, the harder it will be to recruit quality players, making the rebuild last even longer.
 
Why is it so hard to admit that this, get the band back together, all alumni hire was a bad idea to begin with?
 
BuffNut99 said:
This same logic would have had Barnett fired after the Fresno St. loss in 2001.
Click to expand...

Darian3Hagan said:
I know you aren't comparing this csu team to fresnek st that had the first overall player taken in the nfl draft.
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buffwings said:
Noooo! Barnett had a proven track record, turned around a program that was a perennial cellar and won 2 BCS conference championships. Barnett had experience as a coordinator and as a HC before being hired. Big difference, and that is showing on the field. If these guys love the school and football that much, they must be honest with their own limitations and quit at the end of the year for the sake of the program and the players the brought in.
Click to expand...

Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
Click to expand...

Let's stop comparing 2012 csu to 2001 Fresno state that is just silly.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
Click to expand...

For the sake of a hypothetical, how will you feel if the team ends the season 2-9 or worse?

The Buffs will be favored this Saturday against Sacramento State. That is likely the last time they will be favored during the 2012 season.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
Click to expand...

This. And I get that BuffNut is NOT comparing 2001 Fresneck to CSU...he is simply saying that 2001 proves how much a team can change over the course of a season, and all is NOT lost no matter how bad we look in game 1....Solid post. **** we looked bad though.
 
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BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
Click to expand...
No. Talent on this team is in no way similar to 2001. No.
 
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