1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Math if Dre Returns

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Message Board' started by Slurpeee, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Slurpeee

    Slurpeee It's only a gambling problem if you don't win. Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    43
    Probably a really stupid question (apologies if so)... then again, I'm pretty stupid.

    If Dre does come back, how does the reconciling 3 new incoming scholarships with only 2 out going seniors work?

    Is a there a potential transfer lurking under the radar that I'm oblivious to?
    Is there some sort of administrative, paperwork decision I'm not aware of?
    Or is it just a foregone conclusion behind the scenes that Dre's gone and it's not an issue?
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  2. Buffskier

    Buffskier Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    406
    I think there is potential that Jeremy Adams may retire due to medical reasons (major problems with both knees).

    There's also a question of whether Ben Mills returns, although the recent article about him seemed to imply he was coming back.

    I think the numbers will work out without too much trouble. Tad is a big numbers guy!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  3. jwhite17

    jwhite17 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    8
    I can see Adams retiring due to medical problems and or Mills going to a small school to play. He isn't going to get any time next year either with all the new talent arriving. Also, I could even see Stalzer transferring because Talton has replaced him on the depth chart.

    If Dre wants to stay, Boyle will find someone to let go.
     
  4. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    Really do not see Staltzer transferring. It's gonna have to be the two already leaving due to graduation + Adams (medical retirement) and Mills.
     
  5. buff4bcs1985

    buff4bcs1985 Hail to the King

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    26,034
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    also stalzer's family may have the means to pay for him to play as a walk on for a few years
     
  6. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    56,968
    Likes Received:
    4,979
    How many times has this nonsense been stomped on?
     
  7. duaneallman8

    duaneallman8 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    9
    Stalzer didn't have any other offers, did he? Pretty sure he'll ride it out as long as he is getting a free ride.
     
  8. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    134
    It's not really nonsense. There are tons of cases of guys havinv to pay their way after being taken off scholarship. Granted those cases are generally related to said player having off court issues.
     
  9. jwhite17

    jwhite17 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    8
    I think Stalzer got a few DII schollies, but I don't see him gaining minutes next year or the years after (assuming we land Collier/Perkins). At best, I think he can be a spot up shooter, but that's it.
     
  10. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    No it's nonsense. It's not happening.
     
  11. FLounder

    FLounder The Buffs will rise again! Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    6,182
    Likes Received:
    466
    Stalzer was brought in for one purpose. To be a backup. A guy who is fine being a backup.
     
  12. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    134
    I agree. I'm just pointing out it has happened. Tad isn't going to pull his scholly. He will be a solid backup his last 2 years.
     
  13. BuffHerd

    BuffHerd Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,168
    Likes Received:
    317
    He has three years left, doesnt he?
     
  14. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    56,968
    Likes Received:
    4,979
    what you said has nothing to do with whether it is nonsense or not. This talk about Stalzer losing his scholly is absolute nonsense.
     
  15. Medford M.

    Medford M. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2013
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    134
    Yeah, I'm saying he is still another year away.
     
  16. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    48,534
    Likes Received:
    4,527
    It's clear that Coach Boyle expects one more guy who is currently on the team to leave. Who that is remains to be seen.
    My best guess is that Dre is gone. That's just, like, my opinion, man.
    The depth on this team is going to be absolutely sick next year, with or without Dre.
     
  17. 14ers4me

    14ers4me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    15
    I'm not so sure Dre is gone. I've read he might be a second round pick and that money is not guaranteed. If he came back and worked on his offense-developed a consistant 12-15 shot-he could be a lottery pick next year. Unless he's pretty much a lock to go in the first round he should return. It'll be interesting to see what Boyle finds out as he makes his inquiries about where he'll go in this years draft.
     
  18. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    It's not nonsense. It happens at the schools who recruit a lot of one-and-done guys.

    How is Calipari making room for 6 and perhaps 7 incoming studs if the freshmen he has are not opting for the NBA?

    It's called "conditional scholarships". Pitino had to move three guys from scholarship a few years ago to non-scholarship. They had all been former walk-ons who were told they could have scholarships unless he needed them back for such a circumstance.

    The current system allows kids to declare for the NBA draft after the recruiting is done for the next incoming class, so it creates "issues".

    Mostly, this happens to walk-ons who are then given their scholarship conditionally. My daughter was such a situation. But she also was told as an invited walkon that she may go on scholarship right away. She signed a letter of intent. In the first week of practice in August, another girl decided to leave the team . (as the head coach knew ahead of time was highly likely) and my daughter was put on scholarship. She remained there throughout her career, but each year, there was always the possibility that she would give it up that year, depending on how the numbers worked out.

    I suggested that because of Eli's late recruitment, lack of other options, and perceived (on my part) ability to afford to pay, that perhaps Eli's situation was also "conditional". 'Nik later shut this down as rubbish. I don't know if that was based on facts he knows or just dismissing my theory. My theory, is based on how college coaches are sometimes forced to deal with these situations, and not based on any first-hand knowledge of this situation.

    To me, it's at least plausible that Tad could have approached the Stalzer's with a conditional offer. "hey, it looks like we have a scholarship freeing up this year, but I can't really give it out right now for four years, because I might need it next year if Andre decides not to go to the NBA. I can ONLY offer you this scholarship under the condition that if I need to pull it in year 2, that I be able to do that."

    At the end of the day, it only makes for good discussion. The only thing I know is Tad HAS A CONTINGENCY PLAN and I haven't thought of a better one!
     
  19. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    In this scenario, it is absolute nonsense. I've heard from multiple people (Nik,Goose, Will, etc.) that Eli is not on a conditional scholarship. We're not recruiting one and done's and Eli is not a walk on.
     
  20. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Again, I never said that Eli is a walk-on.

    I also prefaced it quite clearly that I had no inside information when I suggested this could be a possibility several months ago.

    I also have clearly stated that if Nik (or others) have definitive information to dismiss this, great. Theory is dead. But I do not know that this is the case. I've seen Nik dismiss it, but he's dismissed other things in the past and been wrong (albeit, rarely).

    I suggested that Austin Vincent may not be eligible for 2013 and was also panned on that one. And I had "experts" such as Adam and Ringo believing otherwise until they checked the facts.

    So unless you know something 'Tini, go back to being an immature pre-adult doing whatever you do, and quit commenting that my opinion is nonsense when in fact you have NO facts to support it. The reality is that my "theory" is unlikely at best. I get that. But I'd like to hear from someone that knows this first hand before it's trashed. That's all!
     
  21. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Oh yeah, thanks for clarifying that we are "not recruiting one and dones"! I forgot that Andre has been here for 3 years.

    You seem to have a problem following logic. I hope you chose your major with that in mind.

    I'll try to re-explain this. When a player is considering leaving for the NBA, this creates uncertainty for the coaching staff. Get that?

    OK - some schools (Kentucky for example) deal with this EVERY year. They recruit a lot of one-and-dones, so this situation therefore arises more frequently at places like Kentucky than at Colorado. Are you with me?

    Is it now clear why I mentioned "one and dones"? Is it clear to your peanut brain NOW why that is a relevant point in explaining why Eli "MAY" have received a conditional scholarship?
     
    dyemeduke likes this.
  22. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Time to go on a bike ride. I don't know why I let him get to me. If I wanted to argue with someone devoid of logic, I have several teenagers here in my own home I could do that with!

    :bang:
     
    Buffnik likes this.
  23. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    80,781
    Likes Received:
    16,501
    buffaholic,

    I do not have definitive information from the standpoint that I can't know if Tad has spoken to Eli and his parents this year to broach the subject.

    However, I do know the following:

    1) Tad has been up-front about these things in the past. Chen is a great example. He was brought in as a walk-on and Tad made a deal that he would be put on scholarship if there was an opening, but that it would not be guaranteed to be available. The issues with Cain opened that up and Tad honored his promise. He also kept Chen on scholarship after he'd earned his minutes rather than pulling it for an extra player.

    2) Eli had opportunities to get an Ivy League education (or substantially similar). I believe he even had some pretty significant opportunities for music. The deal was that he would come to a a state university like CU only if it was on a basketball scholarship. That was the deal, so Tad used that 6th scholarship on Eli in 2012 even though the original plan had been to only sign 5.

    There has been talk that this was a bit of a panic move when Talton didn't progress from his junior to senior year as much as was hoped and it looked like he wouldn't be ready to contribute as a freshman. Talton's progression from the summer and fall to the last part of the season points to the staff's initial evaluation of him being the accurate one rather than the "panic" concern. In hindsight, maybe Tad wouldn't have felt the need to use that 6th scholarship on Eli if he'd known that Little X was going to be just fine.

    But hindsight is hindsight. Tad has shown that he's a man of his word. He put Eli on scholarship. There's nothing to suggest that he would all of a sudden turn into a cutthroat guy who yanked that scholarship. Rather, he'll expect Eli to put in the work on his ball handling and shot so that he can fill the role he was recruited for.

    That is Tad's history and I think he's earned our trust that he won't deviate from this. If he wasn't that guy, we would have seen him force medical retirement from Adams and transfers from Eckloff and Mills the past 2 years. It's just not how he runs this program and, because of that, the Eli speculation is misplaced and probably unfair to both him and Tad. Anything could happen and I see the logic of what you're saying, but there hasn't been any indication that there's any meat on this bone.
     
  24. BIGEZ321

    BIGEZ321 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    32
    I like your theory, and with the exception of Adams hanging up the shoes, it is the one that makes the most sense. I just don't think Tad would ask Mills, Stalzer, or Talton to transfer out.

    Why is everyone all salty at you? :wtf:
     
  25. Quattro

    Quattro Banned BANNED Club Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,503
    Likes Received:
    761
    I can see Boyle judging Mills out. He's been here three years and has never contributed and its looking like he never will. If he couldn't get any real meaningful playing time last year I don't see any chance in hell he gets any next year.
     
  26. BIGEZ321

    BIGEZ321 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    32
    Totally agree, but we'll be awfully small next year without Mills to give us the token Tunks 5-8 mins a game. Wait, is that good or bad? :popcorn:

    The Math is, someone is leaving or someone will not have a scholly for a year. Either way, if Roberson comes back, i'm very interested to see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  27. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Tad is not going to broach the subject with anyone, Mills, Adams or Stalzer. He knew he had to have a contingency long ago.

    So to be clear, if he's going to broach the subject with the Stalzer's, my theory states this was a "condition" for getting the scholarship in the first place.

    As for Ivy League education, etc. I could see that Eli would accept the conditional scholarship knowing it would be honored in year 1, and probably 3-4 years in total, over an Ivy League offer that likely would have cost some money, since they don't have "athletic scholarships".

    I just don't see any way Adams can go on medical retirement since he played strong to end the season.

    Mills is coming back. I think that's been established in a recent Tad interview.

    My most likely scenario? Roberson is gone and nobody is going to ever know what may have been the backup plan!
     
  28. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    25,787
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Ivy league guys get academic scholarships to play sports. You can call it whatever you want but the bottom line is they get to go to school because they are 6'4" and average 30 points a game in high school not because they got a 4.0.
     
  29. buffaholic

    buffaholic Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,201
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    My sentence above remains : "...over an Ivy League offer that likely would have cost some money, since they don't have "athletic scholarships"

    The Ivy League schools provide "Need based aid" only, not academic scholarships to athletes. Given that Eli's father is director of IT for a major credit verification company, Eli would have been expected to contribute some of the cost of his education. Here's a recent article.

    This is strictly enforced by the conference. There is no "handing out" of academic scholarships to athletes.
     
  30. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    25,787
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    A buddy played for Cornell on an academic scholarship. Interesting that he was a football player. They were pretty poor, so you may have a valid point.
     

Share This Page