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this article is brutal... i wonder if hagan is in the sauce now...
- Thread starter Liver
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BUFFS14
Well-Known Member
This was Hagan trying to secure his job with the next HC.
Like Skid posted earlier it is not all on Hagan. You can't run if you can't block. End of story. I don't think Hagan ran off Sumler and I'm sick and ****ing tire of hearing about an undersized lineman that would have made our sack taking exploits seem minor if he had stayed at the position.
So what does Hagan bring to the table then? I pointed out that he's run guys off/failed to keep guys that he needs to develop this 'power running game' (fullback and power backs), hasn't developed players he's had, and spouts off to the media in an unprofessional manner.
How can we know what he brings to th table if the unit he coaches is so deeply affected by other units lack of ability or coaching. As far as the spouting off goes he does need to control that. But I also have no problem with what he said this time. He is just as tired of losing as we are and he showed some emotion here. He is at every practice and watches the bull**** going on and he doesn't like or agree with it. What Kiesau said speaks to Hagans point. He basically said this is the first time in 5 years I've seen any improvement. I'm glad to see at least Hagan has a pulse.
Deleted member 807
Guest
1) A tangible link to the program's glorious past. This matters to former players, fans and recruits.
2) Hagan is a tenacious recruiter who can get players that other coaches might not be able to reach.
3) Passion.
4) No one else on the staff has a mNC ring. (although Cabral has an SB ring)
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Agreed on all. I was responding from a coaching standpoint.
I should be mad at this, but I just don't seem to care. Hawk and his crew of idiots are going to do what they think is best, Hawk and his crew of idiots will be lucky to have jobs next year.
The last sentence in the article. "Dan Hawkins did not speak to the media Thursday" Is that going to be his policy from the time the season begins and until it ends? Win or Lose? Well, it's fairly obvious that's his policy now. IMO, that's a good thing, this way he won't continue to embarress the program anymore than he has in the past. I think this also points out that he still hasn't learned how to address the fanbase, alum, and media without painting himself into a corner.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
To be honest, Hagan's comments weren't the ones that concerned me. It was Kiesau's.
As the OC, this article made him seem desperate and not seeing eye-to-eye with one of his main assistants.
What Hagan did say in the article only seemed to hint at a philosophical/tactical disagreement, but this is year 5 haven't they figured out their goals yet?
How can Hagan recruit and coach if he doesn't buy into the system that the HC and OC want to establish?
I am not trying to knock any of these coaches, this is just an opinion based on the article, but if you don't have solidarity among the coaching staff you are in trouble.
Imagine if Brian Cabral and Ron Collins names were replaced in this article with the positions being defense? Cabral's unquestioned coaching career would have us all attacking Collins and Hawk immediately.
Hagan does need to keep that stuff under wraps, I don't care if it is a "lame duck" coach year or not. That kind of stuff can only do damage. If he was self-serving to "look good" for a new coach he failed in my book.
I love Hagan, but in hindsight he never fit with this staff, many of his kids that he recruited were certainly talented but many of them either didn't qualify or transferred out. That speaks volumes to a what Hagan was trying to do versus what Hawk/Kiesau were trying to do.
Maybe he will be a better fit under a new coach, but he needs to keep this season in focus and not cut off the nose to spite the face.
As the OC, this article made him seem desperate and not seeing eye-to-eye with one of his main assistants.
What Hagan did say in the article only seemed to hint at a philosophical/tactical disagreement, but this is year 5 haven't they figured out their goals yet?
How can Hagan recruit and coach if he doesn't buy into the system that the HC and OC want to establish?
I am not trying to knock any of these coaches, this is just an opinion based on the article, but if you don't have solidarity among the coaching staff you are in trouble.
Imagine if Brian Cabral and Ron Collins names were replaced in this article with the positions being defense? Cabral's unquestioned coaching career would have us all attacking Collins and Hawk immediately.
Hagan does need to keep that stuff under wraps, I don't care if it is a "lame duck" coach year or not. That kind of stuff can only do damage. If he was self-serving to "look good" for a new coach he failed in my book.
I love Hagan, but in hindsight he never fit with this staff, many of his kids that he recruited were certainly talented but many of them either didn't qualify or transferred out. That speaks volumes to a what Hagan was trying to do versus what Hawk/Kiesau were trying to do.
Maybe he will be a better fit under a new coach, but he needs to keep this season in focus and not cut off the nose to spite the face.
You guys read an article by a, lets say, not exactly Pulitzer Prize writer, that probably reported a tenth of what was actually said and then way over react. Come on people! Chill out! There is no controversy here. This is just another example of people trying to invent reasons to rip Hawkins and the staff. :smile2:
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Buffsoldier
Well-Known Member
Prove it. Provide transcripts of the other 90%.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Forget what Ringo wrote.
Direct quote from Hagan:
Direct quote from Kiesau:
How can you pretend that isn't problematic? This is what they are saying to the media. You know as well as anyone that a "united front" would not sound like this at this point in time.
It doesn't mean the sky is falling, and I for one have never said so, but it is a symptom that isn't good and you should not play the "drama card" or "over-reacting" when people are being critical of a situation that doesn't pass the smell test.
As a fan I love all of these. As a guy who wants the team to improve i have issues with these. The probelm I have with Hagan is that #1 & #4 don't do squat about getting the kids who are in the program to play better and that is supposed to be his primary job. Nrs 2 & 3 can help the program, but only indirectly IMHO because landing a great recruit only helps the team if there are coaches who can develop that talent and passion only becomes a factor after players have the foundation of skills and knowledge necessary to play successfully. If these are his strong suits, his major contributions to the program, then he shouldn't be coaching.
Since Hagan has been the RB coach we have seen little/no development of the RB talent in the program. The skills and knowledge to play the position well are not getting infused into our RBs and it shows. Yes the Oline needs to get better yada yada yada, but you can't say that our RBs are only getting held back because of the lineplay. Hagan is a great buff but I don't think he's a good coach.
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Yeah. You have a good point. One too many Percosets. But I still think there is no story here.
This is a ship that is sinking fast. Hawk knows that he got a stay of execution last year and that it will be much harder to keep him around this year if he doesn't get some real results. On one side of the coin Hagan and Kiesau should not be putting themselves in a position to show discord among the staff. This stuff can and does get back to the players and if they have reason to believe that even the coaches don't think what they are doing is going to work, why should they.
At the same time I don't know if Hagan is a good position coach or not. I know he is a good recruiter, I know that he has a knowledge of the game, I know that he is an emotional guy with a passion for winning. I also know that for some guys who have experienced success and been a part of a championship caliber team (and Hagan was more than a part, he was a leader) it is often very hard to keep your thoughts to yourself when you see things that you believe can be fixed that are ignored or made even worse in a losing situation.
Hagan lives and breaths Buff football. He sees a guy like Cabral and aspires to become an integral part of bringing a winner to the university. This may help him in that regard in separating himself from the Hawkins crew when Hawk is replaced. It may also hurt him in that most head coaches expect complete loyalty from their staff, win or lose, and this may make them think twice about keeping Hagan around. I don't think he even thought about all this when he said it, I think rather that it was an honest response born of true emotion in the heat of the moment.
All this said I think we are in for a long hard year. Once the elections pass and the season is over I expect to see a new coach coming in. I do know that at a minimum the new coach will have some decent young talent to build on. Hopefully he will also see fit to keep Cabral and maybe Ambrose, beyond that Hagan's recruiting ability may earn him a shot at the new staff. I don't see a lot of others on the staff that I would be broken up about seeing leave.
At the same time I don't know if Hagan is a good position coach or not. I know he is a good recruiter, I know that he has a knowledge of the game, I know that he is an emotional guy with a passion for winning. I also know that for some guys who have experienced success and been a part of a championship caliber team (and Hagan was more than a part, he was a leader) it is often very hard to keep your thoughts to yourself when you see things that you believe can be fixed that are ignored or made even worse in a losing situation.
Hagan lives and breaths Buff football. He sees a guy like Cabral and aspires to become an integral part of bringing a winner to the university. This may help him in that regard in separating himself from the Hawkins crew when Hawk is replaced. It may also hurt him in that most head coaches expect complete loyalty from their staff, win or lose, and this may make them think twice about keeping Hagan around. I don't think he even thought about all this when he said it, I think rather that it was an honest response born of true emotion in the heat of the moment.
All this said I think we are in for a long hard year. Once the elections pass and the season is over I expect to see a new coach coming in. I do know that at a minimum the new coach will have some decent young talent to build on. Hopefully he will also see fit to keep Cabral and maybe Ambrose, beyond that Hagan's recruiting ability may earn him a shot at the new staff. I don't see a lot of others on the staff that I would be broken up about seeing leave.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I'm not saying Hagan is worthy of any GOAT talk. But's let's give credit where credit is due. Hugh Charles really toughened up and was progressively better from sophmore to senior years. Rodney Stewart has been the best player for the job. Speedy is a credit to Hagan. Sumler is a mixed bag. On one hand, his blocking technique was good enough to earn him significant playing time. On the other hand, he left the team.
Darrell Scott is the example that comes immediately to mind as Hagan's biggest failure as a coach. He may not be able to recover from the stigma of recruiting and losing this 5-star. But Scott is not the whole picture.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
the burden remains on Scott to produce at his next stop. he's not exactly been hot property post exodus. i think there are some questions one could raise about Darian as a coach....but, while the negative recruiting aspect of losing DS is a bad deal, Darrell Scott will need to *do something*. If he blows up at Cincinnati (or wherever), then that's not good for program perception on our end. I hope the kid does well, but not at CU's expense in the big picture.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
In the end it doesn't really matter. Unless Bohn's next hire is someone associated with the 1990 era teams, I think the chances of any of the current coaches returning next year are pretty slim.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
i know if it were me (as a new CU HC coming from somewhere else), i'd clean house. Cabral is certainly one of the best, but if I'm the new guy....I want a clean break and a new start. might be the best for everyone involved. i'm not in favor of a "back to 1990" hire just for the sake of it. we get the best guy available....not a nostalgia hire.
SoCal Bob
Member
Speedy was not on any of the coaches lists. His film was sent in and they gave a scholie based on it, and perhaps a few phone calls.
I don't believe Hagan is that good a recruiter except on a few occasions, but not overall. Speedy works best in the spread because he has the step and lateral change of direction to make it work when there is no hole. He doesn't look as good going through a designated hole because he doesn't have the size and drive to break through arm tackles by the DL.
Sad to say he is our running game.
I don't believe Hagan is that good a recruiter except on a few occasions, but not overall. Speedy works best in the spread because he has the step and lateral change of direction to make it work when there is no hole. He doesn't look as good going through a designated hole because he doesn't have the size and drive to break through arm tackles by the DL.
Sad to say he is our running game.
I think that is a good thing. We need a clean sweep.
Then, I guess, before we bestow the title as Head Coach of the Colorado Buffaloes Football Team (HCCBFT) on you, we should ask you how you feel about Colorado's TABOR ammendment.
To me Speedy is running almost exactly the same way he did in fall camp as a true freshman. Hagan didn't turn him into a good runner, he showed up that way. Since then we've seen very little development of Speedy's talent. He's still doing the same plays, still trying to bounce it outside, still dropping passes and still as fumble prone as he was as a TF. His versatility and effectiveness has not grown as much as you would expect it would given all the playing time he has seen. If Hagan was half as good a coach as he was a player, I expect we would be able to see more development in Speedy. The kid's got talent, but Hagan isn't doing a very good job of bringing it all out of him IMHO.
I hate to be a Hagan basher but this team is in need of good coaching so badly that I don't think we can afford to give up a coaching spot to a sub-par coach because we have nostalgia for the good 'ol days. Hagan won a lot of games for us in the past, but I want to win now. We need great coaches.