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Thoughts on Tad's Recruiting/Lineup Strategies

Discussion in 'Colorado Basketball Recruiting Central' started by Goose, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    OK, Snow mentioned in a recruit thread that he was hoping we'd recruit another big for the class of 2013. While I agree with him, I don't think Tad does (which is probably good news for all Buffs fans everywhere). Honestly, I've been pondering this project for a while, but that post made me realize it's time to take a look. What exactly is Tad going for line-up wise? Are we looking at a traditional lineup (PG, 2 wings, 2 bigs)? Are we going with a more traditional college lineup (3 guards, 2 bigs)? Some sort of hybrid? Honestly, I don't think this post will contain any clear answers, but it might lead us all a little in that direction.

    The first thing I did was look at Tad's teams at UNC. Now I'll be the first to admit that I do'nt know much about Tad's players in Greeley, so I'm largely going off of listed heights & weights for this analysis. There's a chance there could have been a freak of nature like The Mayor who is a PG in a SF's body, but it's unlikely in the Big Sky.

    In his first year there, he had 8 players playing at least 40% of the minutes available (Neal Kingman was at 39.6%, so I rounded up). His starting lineup consisted of two smaller guards (5'10", 175 lbs; 6'1", 190), a swingman (6'6", 185) and two hybrid 3-4 types (6'7", 230; 6'7", 230). His key players off of the bench were 5'9", 165; 6'3", 200; and 6'6", 200.

    In year two, he had 6 players playing at least 40% of the minutes available, and another two who were above 35% so I added them. The starting lineup was four smaller guards (5'9", 165; 5'10", 160; 6'0", 175; 6'0", 210) and one hybrid 3-4 (6'7", 230). Off of the bench he had one swingman (6'6", 200), a hybrid 3-4 (6'7", 230) and a big (6'8", 200).

    In his final year at UNC, Tad had 8 players once again playing at least 40% of the minutes available. The starting lineup was three guards (5'9", 155; 6'0", 170; 6'0", 210), a swingman (6'6", 210) and a big (6'8", 200). Off of the bench he had one guard (6'1", 175), a hybrid 3-4 (6'7", 195) and a big (6'7", 230).

    Looking over that, it appears that while at UNC Tad tended to go with a 3 guard, 2 big lineup -- with one of the bigs usually being "smaller" (a hybrid 3-4 type guy). Now some of that could be because he was in the Big Sky, and his hands were tied on what he could recruit (because let's face it, if you're 6'10" and can manage to not accidentally light yourself on fire during a game, you can usually get some mid-major interest if not higher).

    But then there's his time at CU. Last year we largely went with a three guard, 2 big lineup (Nate, The Mayor, Carlon, Dre & Austin). Some of that was due to limitations that we had on the roster from Bzdelik's time. But now Tad's had a chance to really make an imprint on the roster. The only guy on the team that was really a Bzzz recruit is Simba. So, let's look at this current roster (I also included commit Jaron Hopkins and three other recruits who we're in the running for to get a bit more of an idea -- the numbers at the top represent the positions on the floor):

    Name12345
    Askia BookerXX
    Spencer DinwiddieXXX
    Eli Stalzer*X
    Xavier Talton*X
    Jeremy AdamsXX
    Sabatino ChenXX
    Chris JenkinsXX
    Xavier JohnsonXX
    Andre RobersonXXX
    Wesley GordonXXX
    Josh ScottXX
    Shane Harris-TunksX
    Ben MillsX
    Jaron HopkinsXXX
    Dakarai AllenXXX
    Tre'Shaun LexingXX
    Dustin ThomasXX


    * I only have Talton & Stalzer as PG's, but odds are they could play the 2 as well. I just don't know enough about them to mark that down.

    Honestly, I think it's becoming more and more clear that Tad is planning on running a 3 guard offense with two bigs. Now it's a different version of what he did at UNC as a lot of his guards are bigger guards, giving them even more flexibility, but it's roughly the same thing. The key for me is seeing how many of the 3-4 hybrids Tad has gone after. He has Dre. XJ is going to fill those shoes next year (if not sooner), and we're looking at guys like Allen, Lexing and Thomas who are all capable of playing that position as well.

    Now this isn't to say that Tad is going to turn down big men. Let's not kid ourselves, if in two years De'Ron Davis wants to commit, Tad will happily welcome him to Boulder. Same with guys in the 2014 class like Evan Fitzner, Malik Pope and Jack Williams. But I think Tad is going with quality over size, and is saying that he'd rather have the slightly undersized PF like Dre or XJ who's more talented than the big stiff in the middle who just takes up space. This is why you're going to see a lot more SG & SF's on the recruit lists than you will PF's & C's.
     
  2. GoBuffs!!

    GoBuffs!! Active Member

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    Nice to see him actually look at quality. I got the impression that Bz was just looking for a guy over 6'10" to solve his rebounding problems.

    We showed him
     
  3. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Great stuff. Can we look at Turgeon's teams for a parallel? They seem to share the same coaching philosophies.
     
  4. tante

    tante Club Member Club Member

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    do you think Tad is okay with guys like Allen and Lexing being around 6'6" 180 pounds playing the 4? How big was dre when he came in because as good as he was his freshman year, I think his size kept him from getting considerable minutes in games.
     
  5. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    Quick glance of Turgeron at A&M has it being a combo of the three guard and the "traditional". I'd call it more of a three guard scheme, but it's close enough that it's hard to say. Wichita State was definitely three guard, but how much of that has to do with being in the MVC? I won't use this to judge him, but his team at Maryland last year was a three guard lineup IMO.
     
  6. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Fun lineup good for running the floor, but it definitely leaves us vulnerable to the stanfords of the world. Oh well, can't be good at everything.
     
  7. HawaiiBUFF

    HawaiiBUFF Well-Known Member

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    I like this argument, but I don't think that you can deny playing D-I basketball you need a couple guys over the 6-10 mark. After next year '13-'14 season we lose some major height. I know that Simba doesn't do much and Mills is non existent, but you need some height to contend against the major competition in D-I basketball. I am hoping for Evan Fitzner (6'9) and at least one more C/PF listed at 6'10 + to commit to our program.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  8. SECOBuffsFan

    SECOBuffsFan Active Member

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    Size with talent is what you need, and obviously that is extremely hard to get
     
  9. azbuff

    azbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure we need that. We have Scott for at least a couple of years and Gordon for (likely) 4. That is a pretty solid front two IMO.
     
  10. HawaiiBUFF

    HawaiiBUFF Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree that this will be a great 1,2 punch at the 4 and 5 spot. I just think we need some help with depth in the near future. I think Evan Fitzner can be a legit back up at the 5 and we need a good combo 4. Also is Scott is as good as everyone is thinking, who knows if he sticks around for 4 years...
     
  11. azbuff

    azbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I don't think we're disagreeing. We have Scott for 2-3 years, if he is what we hope he is (and signs from Europe indicate he is). I think Gordon is still underrated, but he isn't a 5, so I understand your point.
     
  12. torerobuff

    torerobuff Dancing is forbidden Club Member

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    I don't think Tad has a strategy built in the way your discussing. I think he's trying to get the best possible talent he can, regardless of position. Obviously he's not going to recruit 12 6'2 guys, but he just wants the best possible talent.

    BTW, I was on vacation, I'm afraid to go in the football forum. Is it safe in there?
     
  13. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Should be ok now. Just don't read anything on saturday, sunday, or monday.
     
  14. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    You are certainly right about this, but how many college teams have big physical teams like Stanford did last year? While we may not have had the talent and experience last year to play "our" game against Stanford and we simply let them bog us into a half-court inside out half court game, as Boyle recruits more of his players, I think they will be able to get out on the break and force the Stanford's of the world to play our game.
     
  15. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    You mean Nate Tomlinson limited us last year?!!
     
  16. jgisland

    jgisland Club Member Club Member

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    I may have seen and heard Tad yelling "run run run" and "go go go" a couple of times when Nate was walking/jogging the ball up the court.
     
  17. Darth Snow

    Darth Snow Hawaiian Buffalo Club Member Junta Member

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    Dude had to catch his breath.
     
  18. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    It's easier to slow a game down than to speed it up, though. You've got to be able to match up in the half court.
     
  19. Goose

    Goose Hoops Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    You may be right. It's a very small sample size & up until now, he hasn't been recruiting from a position of strength. I'm really curious to see what our roster looks like in 5-10 years.
     
  20. mattrob

    mattrob Club Member Club Member

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    My guess is it actually looks a lot like it does now. I don't think we'll see a lot of bigs in the SHT or Mills mold. Instead, we'll probably have a couple of mobile bigs like Scott/Gordon that can get up and down the floor, then fill in with a couple of athletic wings that can play either forward position (Lexing is said to follow in the Dre/XJ mold). I think rather than relying on traditional bigs, we'll rely more on our length and a team approach to defense/rebounding, then go right into the transition game.
     
  21. GoBuffs!!

    GoBuffs!! Active Member

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    I think Dre's minutes were limited his freshman year due to his foul trouble, dude got called for touch fouls all game long
     

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