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Tim “the hack” Griffin chimes in on the Buffs in the B12.

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Hugegroove, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    Tim seems to think that the Buffs would be better off “logistically & competitively” in the MWC as opposed to the B12. He also seems to think theirs a place for the Buffs in the PAC 10. The PAC 10,
    I can deal with. But the MWC!!! In my mind, that’s a huge slap in the face and insult coming from someone like Griffin that somehow writes for es-pee-in and who has no journalistic integrity. Griffin is a POS! OK, I’m done sugar coating this. The next time I’ll tell all of you how I really feel about Griffin. For those of you who are interested in reading his garbage, it’s the 3rd article down in his column. The question he responds to is from someone named Caleb.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/big12
     
  2. Idot Buff

    Idot Buff Club Member Club Member

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    I hate him too...but, he is correct in the sense that we are not committed to football. If we continue down the current path, then we should get out of the Big 12....as painful as that is to contemplate....
     
  3. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    HugeGroove-

    Not a fan of Griffin generally, but I read his comments differently than you. He said that the Buffs fit better with the PAC 10 than the Big XII (many here agree). He only mentioned the MWC if the conference became a BCS automatic qualifier.

    I don't want to necessarily re-hash the Pax 10 debate again, but we absolutely seem unable to recruit Texas. The rest of the miidwest until you get to Missouri doesn't produce any talent (for us). We're never gonna get anything really from Nebraska or Oklahoma or Iowa...90% of our recruits and prospects come from the west coast, Arizona, Nevada, Hawaii and of course Colorado. No Texas recruiting = no winning for the Buffs as it currently stands. I want to be in the Pac 10 in the worst way. We can recruit the Southwest very well if we relocated to a better conference.
     
  4. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. CU thought the players and wins were just going to keep coming in once we joined the Big 12.. I bet if you compare what we've done in terms of facilities/stadium upgrades to everyone else in the conference we ranked dead last in the amount spent for upgrades.. Now we have a coach that has no clue to go along with that..



    And I disagree with the Pac 10.. We would have the same damn problem in that conference too.. It doesn't get any easy than the Big 12 North with only one real powerhouse tradition wise in Nebraska. Hell, we would have trouble against the Utah's, TCU and BYU in the MWC..
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  5. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    Jimmy, I agree that we need a better commitment from the AD if we're gonna compete. My point was more on recruiting areas. Recent history shows most of our top recruits (Givens, Kasa, Miller, Major, Katoa, Tau, Scott) or top performers (T wheatley, Tyler Brayton, Dizon, Hypolite, Jimmy Smith) were from Colorado or the west coast. Granted Hawkins has no ties to Texas and GB did a better job there, but CU really hasn't been all that successful in TX since the H-Boys departed. I like our shot in the Pac 10 better. Of course, without some effort from the admin it won't matter where we are (as you pointed out).
     
  6. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    I would like to think that Talkins would address what level of commitment the school has towards CU football at the recruiting luncheon.
    But I won't hold my breath that he will. It would have to be a pretty ballsie statement to convince me. But since he is somewhat of a lame duck coach and has a past history of putting his foot in his mouth, maybe he will talk about it?
     
  7. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Gurode (from Houston) was better than any of those players you mentioned from California.

    Slick Rick started concentrating more on the West Coast once he became coach, but he still pulled a few players out of Texas.. Regardless, our California recruiting is nowhere close to what it was under Slick Rick.. I don't think we can afford not to recruit the state of Texas.. Hell, Oregon and Cal recruit the state of Texas. This idea that going to the Pac 10 and just recruit the West Coast is going to improve the program is way off base. I mean my gosh, I can't think of any easier set up in a BCS conference than the Big 12 North. Its got one school that has been a traditional power. The others are basically your run of the mill teams.


    It will be interesting what he says Hugegroove, I'm sure he'll say its ready to pop and everyone is bringing their lunch pails.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  8. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    That's exactly what I don't want to hear from him! I would prefer he tells everyone in attendance what kind of commitment the program has to have from the administration (Benson, DeStifano, and the Regents) without saying their names. As far as I'm concerned, he's already under the microscope, so he might as well lay it all on the line while being politicly correct. What does he have to lose by doing so?
     
  9. Creebuzz

    Creebuzz Club Member Club Member

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    That is my point. KSU, KU, ISU are ****ed too. I have no doubt that we will get back to beating them routinely. I also feel we will keep getting drilled by the Big XII south routinely because they have a recruiting base and we do not. This ensures middle of the pack status in perpetuity. We will get our Gurode, Crosby occassionally, but mostly the top 100 will go to the Texas and Oklahoma schools (and Arkansas). The Big XII north will have to pick over the leftovers at best.

    You mention Gurode. I could mention Bienemy, Hagan, Figures, Chad Brown from Cali. We have gathered star players 5 times over from california than texas, despite the fact that we don't actually play in the "home" conference.

    Being in the Pac 10 opens up not just Cali, but also WA, OR, AZ, and NV, plus we still have CO. We can also pick up occassional recruits from elsewhere (i.e Chris Brown Illinois, Westbrook Michigan, Kordell Louisiana, and Texas recruits too).
     
  10. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    T Wheat is from Texas (although born in California). CU is very attractive to Texas players it is just that Hawkins has done a terrible job in Texas. Hawkins is unfocused in recruiting and has not developed a recruiting base.
     
  11. Buttermaker

    Buttermaker Active Member

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    Recruiting Texas is different since the inception of the Big 12 and the growth of TV. Kids wanted to get out of Texas and the Southwest Conference. Now with the exposure, there is no need to leave Texas and as mentioned above, everybody is fighting over the leftovers.
    Look at our offer list this year, at least half the kids are out of California. Our in-state offers are looking west. Our alumni base is out west. I think CU will move sooner than some people think.
     
  12. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    i also think the SWC was perceived as a regional conference and made the Big 8 schools like OU, OSU, Colorado more attractive since it had a national stage with traditional powers OU and NU and the prime time Orange Bowl slot. that's no longer an issue. to me, there's no reason why CU shouldn't be able to recruit Texas in football and basketball.

    more than the Pac 10, i'd like to see the formation of a legit, BCS bid Mountain States conference that includes Utah, BYU, Boise, possibly the Arizona schools and CU. as the balance of power in the Big XII certainly tends 1. South/Texas and 2. in and around Kansas City i'm not sure our best interests are always in play.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  13. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of CU in the Pac 10. But I remain convinced that CU has to make a bigger commitment to it's athletic department in order for the Pac 10 people to want us. We need swimming, diving, baseball and softball at a minimum. All of those sports would require significant investments in facilities.
     
  14. aik

    aik Club Member Club Member

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    CU definitely does not have the athletic budget to field the sports the Pac-10 would want new members to have. And I'm trying to figure out what Griffin has invested in this. If CU bolts the Big 12, the conference he honks for has a stronger athletic profile but it also means his South division favorites have one less punching bag at the moment. Either way I wish we could get better to shut up the Tim Griffins of the world for pointing out our administration's obvious lack of commitment to winning.
     
  15. OKCBuff

    OKCBuff Well-Known Member

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    I would love that, too. Just think of a MTZ-only conference:

    -- Colorado
    -- Colorado State
    -- Air Force
    -- Arizona
    -- Arizona State
    -- Utah
    -- BYU
    -- UNM
    -- Boise
    -- UTEP
    -- Wyoming
    -- UNLV (OK not MTZ but it's a good market to have)

    That said, I think the Pac-10 thing is a bit "grass is greener" deal. There's something to be said for our history in the Big Eight with the Great Plains schools, but I understand looking west since Colorado is considered more of the true west while the rest of the Big 12 isn't.
     
  16. wst coast

    wst coast Member

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    when u get blown out by toledo and csu you really can't call it. it would really get nauseating finishing last in the mwc
     
  17. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to find out what the "minimum" sports to join the Pac Ten would be. Washington is cutting their swimming/diving teams due to funding, and other schools are looking at cuts as well. Only 5 schools have men's swimming/diving and 8 women's teams.

    From what I can tell the only sports that have 100% participation are: Men's: Football, Basketball, Golf, and Baseball; for Women: Basketball, Volleyball, Cross-Country, Golf, Soccer, and Track. I'm not sure what the minimum number of sports for membership is, but of that list baseball is the only sport we don't have.
     
  18. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    I always wonder what people want when conference changes are mentioned. To me one of the most important things is $$$. First, the Pac 10 does not have an attractive TV contract. Going to the MWC or an all mountain time zone set up would suck even worse for revenue...there are not the population centers to give the conference enough clout.

    Right now the Big 12 does well in both Football and Basketball - I would not be surprised to see 7 teams from the Big 12 going to the NCAA this year and also going deep in the tourney. (each round adds to the conference payout).

    I think their are going to be conference shakeups very soon and if CU does not get their act together they may end up a WAC team.
     
  19. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    In today's environment money has to be the over-riding priority. Currently, the Big 12 does have a much better TV contract for all sports.

    However, the Pac Ten is expected to have a really big TV contract very soon, especially under an expansion scenario. That contract could very well be more lucrative than the Big 12 going forward, especially if a combined Big Ten/Pac Ten expansion "raids" two of the current Big 12 schools (Mizzou/CU).
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  20. IDBUFF

    IDBUFF Active Member

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    Keep in mind the conference suits look at all sports - not just football. CU can compete in skiing and cross country but B ball, swimming, diving, track and field etc etc maybe not. I am not sure CU would dominate in the MWC overall but would be strong.
     
  21. Mr. Babar

    Mr. Babar I have no elephant books Club Member

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    I for one like this conference layout. We would still be able to recruit CA and TX (at least as well as we have the past few years), but we'd have similar facilities, fan bases, and recruiting challenges. Apples to apples.
     
  22. BeachBronco

    BeachBronco Active Member

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    I've supported a move to the MWC ever since Utah first went undefeated. I believe the MWC is every bit as good a football conference as the ACC and Big East and they should have BCS status. The Big 12 does nothing for us, we should look west rather than south. Let the Nubskers battle it out with Texas and OU every year, it has worked out so well so far(joke).
     
  23. ScottyBuff

    ScottyBuff Well-Known Member

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    While I respect the MWC, gaining an auto-bid to the BCS is still only secondary to the conference's TV contract. Getting an auto-bid means that the schools can now split a guaranteed $18-20 million per year. It does not make their existing TV contract anymore lucrative, which currently is miniscule compared to the Big 12.

    The Big 12 does provide us with approximately $8-10 million per year from TV and bowl payouts. The MWC can only provide less than half of that with a BCS auto-bid. I am in favor of a long-term development of a "mountain-states" conference if the Arizona schools would be party to it, but it would still be a fairly below average TV market and therefore would have a smaller TV contract.

    While I would certainly like some changes in the Big 12 revenue sharing, and a better political balance between "north" and "south", those issues aren't enough to give up the financial benefits of the Big 12.

    IMO, it is either Pac Ten expansion or stay in the Big 12 as the only VIABLE options for CU in the near future, if we were somehow "forced" out of the Big 12 (completely unlikely, IMO but enough dominos could fall to make things chaotic) then, and only then, should the MWC be an option.
     
  24. BeachBronco

    BeachBronco Active Member

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    Good points, and I would take the PAC 10 as well, anything other than the Big 12........
     

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