What's new
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

Top 5 or 10 NFL QB's All-Time...

Manning is Top 5 to me. If he can find another ring then that should cement him up there.

Ok for serious, the manning that plays in denver is not a top-5 QB ever - hell neither is his clutch more super-bowl winning brother.

Aikmen deserves to be on that list way ahead of Manning....
 
Ok for serious, the manning that plays in denver is not a top-5 QB ever - hell neither is his clutch more super-bowl winning brother.

Aikmen deserves to be on that list way ahead of Manning....

Of course not.... but the PFM between Indy and Den is something spectacular. He needs another SB ring to cement his place, as I said - but for my EYEBALLS test, PFM is near the top
 
Why?

He was Elway before Elway, without the losing....

Bradshaw is hard to figure. You can't argue that he won and you can't argue that he had a lot to do with all those wins. The balance is that he had two HOF WRs, a HOF RB, a number of HOF OL, and one of the great defenses of all time.

He has to be talked about, the only question is where does he fit. If you are going to put Montana up there for winning then Bradshaw has to be in the discussion as well.
 
i agree with jens, but for some different reasons.

now that the league has been around for as long as it has now, i find it quite impossible to pick a straight 10 through one, let alone a 5 through 1.

there are just too many qualifying factors. era, type of scheme, supporting cast, coaches and just the rules of the game. all factor into what certain QB's were able to accomplish or not accomplish during their time playing the game.

when the conversation comes up, i will always say johnny elway. every time. first, because i know i will get a groan out of most any audience i have. second, i feel that i can make a reasonable case for him. and this is how it generally goes...

2 Super Bowl rings.
-yeah but, he only got those because he had a good team around him.

You mean like Montana had?
-yeah, but montana had many more rings than elway. elway got blown out in all those other Super Bowls.

Without Elway, Denver would have never been in any of those Super Bowls.
-but they lost.

I can grant you that, but i will tell you that you put Montana on those denver teams, they never make it to the Super Bowl and you put elway on those SF teams and SF wins just as many if not more Super Bowls than montana ever did.
-how is that? you are out of your mind.

Montana would have never survived a season behind the o-line that JE had to play behind most of his career. he never had all pro WR's. never had all pro RB's. Montana had all of that. So did Marino, who went to one and lost. Montana, Taylor and Rice. Marino, Clayton and Duper. SF also had some damn good d's as well. until elways last few years, he never had any of that. yet, you want to give montana a pass on that and not say elway did more with less?
-its all about Super Bowl rings.

that is where i give up and offer up what i said above with a laugh. the only argument i can make against a guy like montana is to put him in denver. but, you cant. so, he has just a legit argument as any as to why he should be #1. but, what about brady?

there is just no answer to this question.

the real question at this point is, who are the top 15 to QB's who should be tied for the best QB of all time?

that is pretty much the way i see it these days.

He did have #80, #87 and TD for a time...
 
Something that hurt Marino and Elway is that both played in their primes before free agency was prevalent. Because they were so good, they constantly had their teams performing much better than their talent levels. Because of that, they were always drafting low and not getting the talent infusion they needed. Especially with Marino, you saw the team around him constantly getting worse. That was happening with Elway, but then he was fortunate enough at the end that the Broncos became one of the first teams to effectively use the new free agency rules and put a great team around him.
 
Something that hurt Marino and Elway is that both played in their primes before free agency was prevalent. Because they were so good, they constantly had their teams performing much better than their talent levels. Because of that, they were always drafting low and not getting the talent infusion they needed. Especially with Marino, you saw the team around him constantly getting worse. That was happening with Elway, but then he was fortunate enough at the end that the Broncos became one of the first teams to effectively use the new free agency rules and put a great team around him.

Good point, also couldn't go out and fill roles in FA like now. Example with this years Broncos able to go out and grab Tamme and Dreesen for Manning. Drew Brees getting Sproles to work with the Saints offense.
 
He did have #80, #87 and TD for a time...

i mis stated my sentence there. for most of his career.... until the end... when he won the SB's... like montana had. kinda thought i made that clear in the overall post. :smile2:

Ummm...Clayton and Duper were nothing without Dan Marino.

other than pro bowl WR's. and part of that was having all pro o-linemen. something that JE didn't have during those years.

yeah, you are right. i think vance johnson made it to the pro bowl (and was the only one) one year out of the time denver had the "three amigos". much better than clayton and duper.

you want to tell me that you would take any one of the three amigos over clayton and duper?
 
#1. Johnny Unitas...
#2. Pick whoever you want.

I agree with the era thing. Unitas played in the days when the receivers got mugged. The 47 straight games with a touchdown pass is something when you consider the era he played. Tough as nails, called all of his own plays. Loved watching him play.
 
I will go to my grave arguing Montana is overrated!
You aren't the only one that thinks that. He was good, but not the greatest. He had amazing offensive talent around him and a HC that innovated an offense. Take those away and he doesn't come close to accomplishing what he did.
 
You aren't the only one that thinks that. He was good, but not the greatest. He had amazing offensive talent around him and a HC that innovated an offense. Take those away and he doesn't come close to accomplishing what he did.

Don't forget his two seasons with the Chiefs. In his late 30s with mediocre offensive talent around him and after suffering injuries that made him a shadow of what he was, Joe got them into the AFC Championship game his first year and got a playoff win in his 2nd year (before retiring). You can talk all you want about Joe and the talent he had with the 49ers. But the first championship he won there was when he didn't have much talent on the offense. And those final years with the Chiefs, he was marching teams to playoff wins despite little help and a bursa sac the size of a grapefruit on his throwing arm. Couldn't throw the ball more than about 25 yards down field and still moved the offense.
 
Another name for your list -- Bart Starr. Exceptional passer, called his own plays, and led his team to several championship wins.
 
#1. Johnny Unitas...
#2. Pick whoever you want.

I agree with the era thing. Unitas played in the days when the receivers got mugged. The 47 straight games with a touchdown pass is something when you consider the era he played. Tough as nails, called all of his own plays. Loved watching him play.

Not old enough to remember actually watching Unitas play and having it mean something. Kind of the same when I mentioned Bart Starr but both deserve serious mention based on results on the field. They also had to be tough as nails just to survive in an era when there were no skirts for the QB.

Another guy who never had a chance to build stats since he sometimes only threw 7-8 passes a game but who was a big time winner was Bob Griese. Not saying he belongs in the elite but he does deserve some recognition as a leader and a winner who could get it done when he was asked to.
 
Don't forget his two seasons with the Chiefs. In his late 30s with mediocre offensive talent around him and after suffering injuries that made him a shadow of what he was, Joe got them into the AFC Championship game his first year and got a playoff win in his 2nd year (before retiring). You can talk all you want about Joe and the talent he had with the 49ers. But the first championship he won there was when he didn't have much talent on the offense. And those final years with the Chiefs, he was marching teams to playoff wins despite little help and a bursa sac the size of a grapefruit on his throwing arm. Couldn't throw the ball more than about 25 yards down field and still moved the offense.
Quit disputing my dislike of Montana with possibly relevant information from his time with the Chiefs!

In all seriousness, he was good but I just don't think he's top 3 or whatever I've seen some "experts" call him (not necessarily talking about this thread). Put some other of the top QBs in the 49er system during those years, and I think you see at least similar results if not better.
 
He did have #80, #87 and TD for a time...

He should have had Carl Pickens, but Reeves (no friend of his HOF QB in his play-calling, either) drafted Elway's backup (the great Tommy Maddox) instead of creating what would have been one of the best QB/WR tandems in NFL history.
 
Quit disputing my dislike of Montana with possibly relevant information from his time with the Chiefs!

In all seriousness, he was good but I just don't think he's top 3 or whatever I've seen some "experts" call him (not necessarily talking about this thread). Put some other of the top QBs in the 49er system during those years, and I think you see at least similar results if not better.

ESPN the other day had a show highlighting the top ten Montana games. Throughout the show people like Madden and such constantly referred to Montana as the best they ever saw, by far. I don't think it is reasonable to argue he was not at least among the top three of all time given all the information. Unitas is in the conversation because he dominated in an earlier era. The latter day Elway is in the conversation but not the early Elway (I think Bradshaw's career is similar in many ways). But you cannot validly claim Montana is among the best ever.
 
It is fun talking about QBs but it really brings home how old I have gotten. I know that everyone looks at the QBs that played while they have been watching football and most of those eras started after I started watching... and then I think of when I first started working and the older guys would talk about great QBs and they would talk about guys I had never seen play - Bobby Layne, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Norm Van Brocklin. It brings home to me that there are great QBs in every era.

Unitas and Bart Starr the big standouts when I was young with Y.A. Tittle reaching the end of his career, Len Dawson, John Hadl and John Brodie were also good QBs. Then came Joe Namoth, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Kenny Stabler, followed by Montana, Elway, Kelly, Marino, Moon. Then you had Young, Farve, Aikman. Now you are in the modern era with P. Manning, Brady, E. Manning, Brees, and Rivers.

The game evolves so it is tough to compare statistics between eras. I had the most fun watching Unitas (I just loved the way the game was played in that era). Elway and Marino were great to watch. I do not watch as much NFL anymore but when I do there is a lot of talent playing the QB position.
 
ESPN the other day had a show highlighting the top ten Montana games. Throughout the show people like Madden and such constantly referred to Montana as the best they ever saw, by far. I don't think it is reasonable to argue he was not at least among the top three of all time given all the information. Unitas is in the conversation because he dominated in an earlier era. The latter day Elway is in the conversation but not the early Elway (I think Bradshaw's career is similar in many ways). But you cannot validly claim Montana is among the best ever.
Sorry but I really don't put much stock into anything John Madden says. And I still stick with the fact that Montana had an offensive innovator as his HC in Bill Walsh and serious offensive talent that surrounded him. Look at what Steve Young did in the same offense with some of the same players as Montana had. A huge number of the highly thought of QBs would have thrived in the environment that Montana got to play in.
 
Sorry but I really don't put much stock into anything John Madden says. And I still stick with the fact that Montana had an offensive innovator as his HC in Bill Walsh and serious offensive talent that surrounded him. Look at what Steve Young did in the same offense with some of the same players as Montana had. A huge number of the highly thought of QBs would have thrived in the environment that Montana got to play in.

It does not appear you have much of an objective view on this subject.
 
Why?

He was Elway before Elway, without the losing....
Because I'm a Dallas Cowboy fan! Plus, his career completion % was about 52% and his career QB rating was about 70. He had a great team with a great, great defense.
 
It does not appear you have much of an objective view on this subject.

I don't think anyone really has an objective view when this argument comes up. I know I don't. I can twist and turn any argument into reasons why my boy Marino was the best ever. It is what it is. There's a select group of QBs that are all in contention for the top spot and that's probably how it should be.
 
A couple of lists I found have Steve Young. Almost all lists have Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham. Otto Graham not only won, like, 10 NFL championships, his first year out of college he won an NBA championship.
 
There's a lot of good points here.

The one thing that I love - we donkey fans had a top 5 QB for 17 years, and now we have a top 5 QB playing for us again.

That's pretty cool.

Almost wipes away the pain of the Buff ****tiness.

Almost.
 
1. Tebow
2. Vince Young
3. Eric Crouch
4. Charlie Ward
5. Tommy Frazier
6. Jamelle Holieway
7. Darian Hagan
 
Last edited:
The best is a toss up between Steve Young or Peyton Manning. Dark horse might be Kurt Warner.
 
Back
Top