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Using Talent

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by SanDiegoBuff, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I think two quotes in today's news cycle exemplify why Juicebox needs to go, and why CU is failing right now. It's been said ad nauseum, but good coaches mold their system to the talent, they don't try to force their talent into a system.

    If our receivers, or linemen or QB or any position for that matter, has talent sitting on the bench for the sake of the system, the coaches are doing something wrong.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?page=hotread2/crabtree

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ndel/09/24/houston-cougars/index.html?eref=T1


     
  2. Buff fanatic

    Buff fanatic Well-Known Member

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    Thats why Hawkins should go??? Because Crabtree was ready to play in someone else's offense?? And Hawkins used Speedy Stewart PLENTY as a freshman. Maybe its an individual player thing (and Scott's hurt).
     
  3. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I would also add that drawing up plays and changing a system are not the same thing.
     
  4. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    You're missing the point entirely, and that's OK. It has nothing to do with Crabtree, it has everything to do with the coaches being willing to change what they do to take advantage of the players they have.

    There are many reasons Hawkins should go. This is merely one of them.

    Yes Scott is hurt... this time... we know he wasn't hurt against CSU and likely wasn't hurt most of last season.

    Look what happened when they simplified the defense, and let players like Major finally come in and bring some speed, breathe some life into the defense. Granted, it was against Wyoming, so time will tell...

    They don't need to change the system entirely, but even drawing up plays to use your playmakers makes a huge difference.

    Not being able to get the guys on the field that were raved about in the spring, after 3 games is an indictment of the staff's ability to teach. Or an indictment of the staff's ability to be flexible. Either one should be enough.
     
  5. Hugegroove

    Hugegroove Club Member Club Member

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    As Colonel Klink would say, "Very Interesting"
     
  6. SCB

    SCB Well-Known Member

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    Hawkins inability to adapt his offense to the players he recruited and have the most talent is my biggest problem with DH. Play the best athletes you have. Make the offense fit the talent, not the other way around.
     
  7. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    My good friend Pat Jones is on the radio every day here in Oklahoma and he always says - good coaches FIND A WAY to get the talent on the field. He says that if there is a player who doesn't understand the playbook - change the playbook.
     
  8. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Or to quote the immortal, morally correct Okie, Barry Switzer,"It's not the X's and O's, it's the Jakes and the Joes".
     
  9. 66BUFF

    66BUFF FTW Club Member

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    jimmys and the joes
     
  10. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    Would that be the former OSU coach Pat Jones who coached OSU back in the '80's and '90's? He'd know a thing or two about that especially when he had Barry Sanders and Thurman at RB.
     
  11. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Also in the current media cycle were ESPN and SI articles on Mike Singletary. I found it interesting that Mike sounded a lot like Hawk when he talks about pulling together as a team, losing the ego for the greater good, how technique, hard work and awareness can compensate for physical limitations, etc.

    The three main things that stuck out to me as vastly different were: First, that Singletary is highly emotional and will pull whatever stunt he has to in order to motivate the team.

    The second one is a Singletary quote from ESPN that highlights Hawkins and his staff's biggest problem:

    "You can write up all the X's and O's you want. That doesn't matter. What makes a good coach is - whatever you put on the board, guys do."

    The third is another ESPN quote when Singletary responded to a question about whether he was making the guys go after each other too hard in a drill:

    "All I know is, football is a contact sport."
     
  12. OUBuff

    OUBuff American Club Member

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    Of course Shultz would say, "I know Nothing!" :huh:
     
  13. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't Hawk need to find the next Crabtree first? :cool:
     
  14. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I'll hold off on Singletary the coach until he has a winning season. I've always preferred the coach in control - more Shanahan than Cowher.
     
  15. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    Hawk is the epitome of a system coach v. a football coach. Saban, Dennis the menace Erickson, those guys show up, look at what they have, maximize what they have in a way that the players can excel, and win. Thye don't stand around asking for 7+ years so that every piece of the puzzle is in so they can win. CU needs a football coach.
     
  16. buffs04

    buffs04 Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with the part of that suggestion that system coaches aren't effective or need a very long time to be successful. Mike Leach has had a winning season every year at Texas Tech. Rich Rodriguez appears to be on the road to success in Year 2 at Michigan - although year one was quite bad. Urban Meyer's version of the spread has been highly and immediately successful wherever he has coached.

    EDIT: Personally, I wouldn't refer to DH as a system coach. If he has a system, I am not sure if anyone on this planet would be able to succinctly describe it.
     
  17. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    Let's be honest with ourselves Buffs04 - Dan Hawkins is not on the level of Leach, Rich Rod and Meyer, he simply is in another (lower, sorry to say) class. Hard to compare the performance of a Maserati coupe to that of a Jeep Libery, if you will.
     
  18. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    I think you may be on to something, the 20 hour practice limitation probably only allows Hawk to get through chapter one of his system: The Zen of Football Bliss (or how I parlayed Self-Help Books into a high six figure job). I kid, I kid. IMO, Hawk had the keys handed tohim at BSU and when he had everything the way he wanted it, the system worked in the WAC.

    Leach is given WAY too much credit IMO. Go look at their sked for the tiem he has been there EVERY year their OOC was loaded with teams ANY B12 team would have beaten every time. So saying TT has always had a winning season since he was there has to take into account TT had 3 gimmes out of 11 or four gimmes out of 12, depending on whether it was an 11 or 12 game schedule. So the fact they can follow that up with 3-5 conference schedule and be above .500 and bowl eligible isn't as impressive as it sounds.
     
  19. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    Gimmes like Montana State, Colorado State, Toledo??

    No disrespect intended, I just think that Hawkins has had his share of gimmes as well. Although we've played teams like Georgia and FSU, TT is in the Big XII South - meaning it plays Texas, Oklahoma and Okie State every year - that's tough
     
  20. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    The difference is that TT's OOC is ONLY gimmes evry year. Go look it up and show me ONE team that should be considered anything but a doormat. This year they play UH, and that is as close as it gets. IMO, they scheduled UH excpectinga patsy and are getting unpleasantly surprised, sort of like KjSU.

    '08 EWU, UMass, Nevada, SMU

    '07 SMU, UTEP, Rice, Northwestern ST, (not Northwestern of the big 10/11)

    '06 SMU, Rice, Utep, SE Louisiana, TCU* (OK this is a real team)

    '05 FIU, SHSU, Indiana ST. (not IU of Big 10/11)

    '04 SMU, UNM, TCU*

    You get the idea.

    Hawk has had plenty of gimmes, and he tends to get beat by the gimmes.
     
  21. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    :lol:
     
  22. Lt.Col.FrankSlade

    Lt.Col.FrankSlade Well-Known Member

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    How would we know? The potential "Crabtree's" never see the field.

    Unless you think Espinoza, Ebner, and McKnight are Crabtree-esque.
     
  23. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I'm not sure that Michigan belongs in any of these arguments anyway, because as I posted elsewhere in a recruiting analysis, they have average the number 10 Rivals recruiting class since Hawkins' arrival, and probably were even better historically. If all of your athletes are a notch better, you will get more wins.
     
  24. leftybuff

    leftybuff Iconoclast Club Member

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    :yeahthat:
     
  25. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I also tend to think RichRod forced kids into his system last year and it didn't work out so well. You not only have to play the talent, but you also need to make sure the talent you are playing knows what to do. Last years Michigan is a good example of that.
     
  26. NashBuff

    NashBuff CSU Knob-Slobberer

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    I watched the Texas Tech-Texas game on ESPN360 (awesome service) and I saw that TT's plays weren't that complictated and the QB didn't have to think too much to make the passes most of the time (Potts played his first big road game in this one so he seemed hesistant at times).

    Look at TT's WRs, they don't look that much different from the likes of McKnight and Espy and those smallish CU WRs. I don't think we might have the QB we need to excute a system similar to Leach's system at TT.

    I thought this was going to be a major blowout by UT because UT had every reason to be upset and there were just over 100k fans at DKR in Austin. But TT didn't look overmatched against the Longhorns although the 'Horns have the talent edge in a big way.

    We need a system coach more than a football coach. If we are not able to recruit the big time players, we need a system coach.
     
  27. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    You're right...BUT only if the coach puts the best athletes on the field, which is just one of the problems we're facing with Juicebox
     

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