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We are in trouble

CSU absolutely had more developed talent on the field at than us, Tini. I just rewatched the game. To say in game coaching is what lost us that game is incredibly naive and obviously an attempt to explain away the loss.

I just watched the 60 minute version of the game. We looked younger and weaker. Our D got tired midway through the 3d, and made a whole bunch of mistakes. By the fourth, we weren't making mistakes, we were getting beat to ****. A few plays either way in the 3d and maybe we stay in the game and pull it out.... but we didn't. We also got rattled on offense too. Also out talented. Their LBs were great, and always where they needed to be.

Not to say it wasn't in game coaching too. On offense we got predictable and went to the well on screens too many times. We also gave up on the run game way too early. We stopped doing the zone read once Sefo got blasted at the end of the first. Lindgren had a good gameplan, but lost composure.

Speaking of that, Sefo lost composure after he got destroyed a few times. Young QB. Could have happeend to anyone though. He got hit so damn hard, although a few of those were his fault.

Back to talent. Their DL was more talented than our OL. Nembot lost composure in the 4th and forgot how to pass block. Crabb couldn't stop a quick inside move from destroying Sefo at the end of the first.

To whit: open your goddamn eyes and accept that not only did our coaches fail to do a good job in that game, we also got out talented.

In short: we aren't good.

But I think there's a lot of room for improvement here. I'm not as long term doom and gloom as I was after the game.
 
Darth Snow said:
CSU absolutely had more developed talent on the field at than us, Tini. I just rewatched the game. To say in game coaching is what lost us that game is incredibly naive and obviously an attempt to explain away the loss.

I just watched the 60 minute version of the game. We looked younger and weaker. Our D got tired midway through the 3d, and made a whole bunch of mistakes. By the fourth, we weren't making mistakes, we were getting beat to ****. A few plays either way in the 3d and maybe we stay in the game and pull it out.... but we didn't. We also got rattled on offense too. Also out talented. Their LBs were great, and always where they needed to be.

Not to say it wasn't in game coaching too. On offense we got predictable and went to the well on screens too many times. We also gave up on the run game way too early. We stopped doing the zone read once Sefo got blasted at the end of the first. Lindgren had a good gameplan, but lost composure.

Speaking of that, Sefo lost composure after he got destroyed a few times. Young QB. Could have happeend to anyone though. He got hit so damn hard, although a few of those were his fault.

Back to talent. Their DL was more talented than our OL. Nembot lost composure in the 4th and forgot how to pass block. Crabb couldn't stop a quick inside move from destroying Sefo at the end of the first.

To whit: open your goddamn eyes and accept that not only did our coaches fail to do a good job in that game, we also got out talented.

In short: we aren't good.

But I think there's a lot of room for improvement here. I'm not as long term doom and gloom as I was after the game.
Click to expand...

Good evaluation of the game and the situation we face.

CSU had some fr. and soph. players on the field but they weren't the core of the team. Most of their players, and almost all of their key players were jrs. and srs., guys who had developed as college players.

We had a bunch of guys on the field who may be better raw athletes than CSU has, we have guys who in the future may and likely will be better players than CSU had on the field. They aren't right now.

Disappointing was the fact that for the most part some of our weakest links were the the guys we have who are upperclassmen. Webb got dominated, Munyer and Nembot flat out failed, Crowley lost effectiveness, Tupou didn't perform up to expectations. We had a couple exceptions. Spruce was Spruce, Hendo didn't embarrass himself even if it wasn't his best game.

In general I think that M2 is slowly bringing us closer to the rest of the teams in the PAC. We have a lot of young guys playing who on a good team wouldn't be yet but who are gaining valuable experience.

We still have some gaping holes, CSU found and abused those holes. I fully expect the rest of our opponents will do the same this year.
 
MtnBuff said:
Good evaluation of the game and the situation we face.

CSU had some fr. and soph. players on the field but they weren't the core of the team. Most of their players, and almost all of their key players were jrs. and srs., guys who had developed as college players.

We had a bunch of guys on the field who may be better raw athletes than CSU has, we have guys who in the future may and likely will be better players than CSU had on the field. They aren't right now.

Disappointing was the fact that for the most part some of our weakest links were the the guys we have who are upperclassmen. Webb got dominated, Munyer and Nembot flat out failed, Crowley lost effectiveness, Tupou didn't perform up to expectations. We had a couple exceptions. Spruce was Spruce, Hendo didn't embarrass himself even if it wasn't his best game.

In general I think that M2 is slowly bringing us closer to the rest of the teams in the PAC. We have a lot of young guys playing who on a good team wouldn't be yet but who are gaining valuable experience.

We still have some gaping holes, CSU found and abused those holes. I fully expect the rest of our opponents will do the same this year.
Click to expand...
I disagree with your disses of the individual players. Hendo played hard till the end and despite one good play for the TD and over playing run support (who could blame him) he was one of the few players to play till the end. That's just one. Crawley especially seemed to make some plays, despite that craptastic PI call.

That said, I agree with the bolded statement. It's disappointing. But not cause those that were playing weren't making plays.... it was more that there were so few of them out there making plays. And yes, a few had real rough patches too.
 
I too have watched the game multiple times through. I saw CSU made better adjustments and they also had a better attitude on the field and were more physical than us outside of the first quarter and a half. CSU absolutely has better RBs, but in my eyes we lost because of the lack of physicality, lack of adjustments, and lack of want.
 
'Tini said:
CSU does not have more talent, in-game coaching is absolutely what lost us the game.

And PC you say a bunch of coaches are saying MacIntyre doesn't have what it takes (which I find hard to believe based on other comments from PAC 12 coaches), but Tom Osborne thinks MacIntyre is a coaching superstar.
Click to expand...
When I was your age, I thought I knew everything too. Now I know how little and insignificant I am. You would be incredibly well served to to find a mentor when you get your first job.
 
'Tini said:
I too have watched the game multiple times through. I saw CSU made better adjustments and they also had a better attitude on the field and were more physical than us outside of the first quarter and a half. CSU absolutely has better RBs, but in my eyes we lost because of the lack of physicality, lack of adjustments, and lack of want.
Click to expand...

Great post!

It's what I saw coming going into the game.

The coaching staff can't mandate team leadership.
 
The secondary as a whole played decently for the most part, if we want to talk about bright spots. They got beaten down and had to sell out to correct for the incredibly ****ty play amongst the rest of the defense. But I think we have the pieces to field an actual p12 quality secondary. This won't matter without better play upfront.

Spruce and the wideouts in general are workable. Sefo is workable if you have the tools around him.

The d line, the o line, the lbs, the rbs, and the tes all played like dog **** on fire.
 
MtnBuff said:
Good evaluation of the game and the situation we face.

CSU had some fr. and soph. players on the field but they weren't the core of the team. Most of their players, and almost all of their key players were jrs. and srs., guys who had developed as college players.

We had a bunch of guys on the field who may be better raw athletes than CSU has, we have guys who in the future may and likely will be better players than CSU had on the field. They aren't right now.

Disappointing was the fact that for the most part some of our weakest links were the the guys we have who are upperclassmen. Webb got dominated, Munyer and Nembot flat out failed, Crowley lost effectiveness, Tupou didn't perform up to expectations. We had a couple exceptions. Spruce was Spruce, Hendo didn't embarrass himself even if it wasn't his best game.

In general I think that M2 is slowly bringing us closer to the rest of the teams in the PAC. We have a lot of young guys playing who on a good team wouldn't be yet but who are gaining valuable experience.

We still have some gaping holes, CSU found and abused those holes. I fully expect the rest of our opponents will do the same this year.
Click to expand...

Darth Snow said:
I disagree with your disses of the individual players. Hendo played hard till the end and despite one good play for the TD and over playing run support (who could blame him) he was one of the few players to play till the end. That's just one. Crawley especially seemed to make some plays, despite that craptastic PI call.

That said, I agree with the bolded statement. It's disappointing. But not cause those that were playing weren't making plays.... it was more that there were so few of them out there making plays. And yes, a few had real rough patches too.
Click to expand...

You notice that I did give Hendo credit. It wasn't his best game but you also can't blame him for what went wrong. He spent a lot of the night either catching RB who made it into the secondary untouched or trying to cover receivers while getting no help from the pass rush. Crowley was a different player after the flags. I hope that M2 can get him back into a good place because he is a plus athlete and could be a difference maker for us the rest of this year. Before the flags he was playing more effectively than he had last year.

I also think that Tupau simply got worn down by being almost alone on the D-line. CSU was able to handle the DEs so easily that they could focus constant extra attention on him and that is hard to overcome for a whole game.
 
Imho, we lost up front. I'm not sure they have more talent across the board. They have it at a few places we don't though. Plus they were flat tougher than we were.
 
Darth Snow said:
I know who I want to fire. I think I'm excited about firing 2-3 guys, but wouldn't mind seeing half or more the assistants go* after the season, depending on the replacements.
Click to expand...

*Assumes replacements would be an upgrade. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Staff trading involves significant risk. Do not trade with money you can afford to lose.
 
Darth Snow said:
CSU absolutely had more developed talent on the field at than us, Tini. I just rewatched the game. To say in game coaching is what lost us that game is incredibly naive and obviously an attempt to explain away the loss.

I just watched the 60 minute version of the game. We looked younger and weaker. Our D got tired midway through the 3d, and made a whole bunch of mistakes. By the fourth, we weren't making mistakes, we were getting beat to ****. A few plays either way in the 3d and maybe we stay in the game and pull it out.... but we didn't. We also got rattled on offense too. Also out talented. Their LBs were great, and always where they needed to be.

Not to say it wasn't in game coaching too. On offense we got predictable and went to the well on screens too many times. We also gave up on the run game way too early. We stopped doing the zone read once Sefo got blasted at the end of the first. Lindgren had a good gameplan, but lost composure.

Speaking of that, Sefo lost composure after he got destroyed a few times. Young QB. Could have happeend to anyone though. He got hit so damn hard, although a few of those were his fault.

Back to talent. Their DL was more talented than our OL. Nembot lost composure in the 4th and forgot how to pass block. Crabb couldn't stop a quick inside move from destroying Sefo at the end of the first.

To whit: open your goddamn eyes and accept that not only did our coaches fail to do a good job in that game, we also got out talented.

In short: we aren't good.

But I think there's a lot of room for improvement here. I'm not as long term doom and gloom as I was after the game.
Click to expand...

whilst I indubitably agree, did you really just use "to whit"?

I'm pretty doom and gloom, by the way-- without the bodies, we aren't going far.

bowl games are like the powerball for us right now.

if I feel compelled to agree with you again, I'm going to have to have you drawn and quartered.
 
Darth Snow said:
I disagree with your disses of the individual players. Hendo played hard till the end and despite one good play for the TD and over playing run support (who could blame him) he was one of the few players to play till the end. That's just one. Crawley especially seemed to make some plays, despite that craptastic PI call.

That said, I agree with the bolded statement. It's disappointing. But not cause those that were playing weren't making plays.... it was more that there were so few of them out there making plays. And yes, a few had real rough patches too.
Click to expand...


I was in boise on friday and after getting home monday, watched the game and CU blew too many chances early to put csu in a hole and have them doubting themselves. CU got the 17-7 lead and both sides of the ball seemed to take a dump. Didn't see the fight or win at all cost attitude from players or coaches.
 
Liver said:
whilst I indubitably agree, did you really just use "to whit"?

I'm pretty doom and gloom, by the way-- without the bodies, we aren't going far.

bowl games are like the powerball for us right now.

if I feel compelled to agree with you again, I'm going to have to have you drawn and quartered.
Click to expand...
It was an effective attention grabber. Also, I've never used it before. Tini likes shiny things like advanced stats and fancy words, so I figured it would be a good start after a long post (for me these days) to focus his mind on the point.


Seriously, I think we do have some bodies, but that the effect of HCMM's recruiting developmental players + injuries means those bodies aren't ready to play this year.
 
I'm hoping that the loss might kick the boys in the pants a bit.

We should win at UMASS this week (should)...and maybe a solid outing against AZ can help turn things around.
I mean, HALF of the NCAA teams lost this past weekend. We're not close to being a contender or a top 25 team,
so maybe if we can build and get some momentum we can sneak a few wins and maybe improve this season to get
5-6 wins or so?

It's an opportunity, but in all reality, we won't be talked about on the national stage for many seasons yet to come.

Thank goodness we have a great basketball program now!
 
darth-horax said:
I'm hoping that the loss might kick the boys in the pants a bit.

We should win at UMASS this week (should)...and maybe a solid outing against AZ can help turn things around.
I mean, HALF of the NCAA teams lost this past weekend. We're not close to being a contender or a top 25 team,
so maybe if we can build and get some momentum we can sneak a few wins and maybe improve this season to get
5-6 wins or so?

It's an opportunity, but in all reality, we won't be talked about on the national stage for many seasons yet to come.
Click to expand...

at what point do you concede to reality or are you an eternal optimist regardless of results? Nothing wrong with being a crazy fan. It's just interesting to observe.
 
Mark Wetmore said:
at what point do you concede to reality or are you an eternal optimist regardless of results? Nothing wrong with being a crazy fan. It's just interesting to observe.
Click to expand...

I gave up awhile back, in all reality....but I am an optimist. I've seen too many teams start out slow and pickup enough steam to surprise people.
I'm hoping that's the case here. However, if they can't learn to stop the run, and if Liufau doens't get a quicker release, we're in for another 2.5 years of Hell.

Injuries come into play, other teams can slump, you never know what will happen.
Right now, we're the Northwestern of the PAC-12. Northwestern was solid for a few good years in the 90's, as were the Buffs, but since then, both
have been mediocre at best.

It all started with the sad concussions of Craig Ochs and the subsequent falling out of graces in the Big 12...a conference we could actually survive within.
I fear the PAC 12 will be our undoing.
 
darth-horax said:
I gave up awhile back, in all reality....but I am an optimist. I've seen too many teams start out slow and pickup enough steam to surprise people.
I'm hoping that's the case here. However, if they can't learn to stop the run, and if Liufau doens't get a quicker release, we're in for another 2.5 years of Hell.

Injuries come into play, other teams can slump, you never know what will happen.
Right now, we're the Northwestern of the PAC-12. Northwestern was solid for a few good years in the 90's, as were the Buffs, but since then, both
have been mediocre at best.

It all started with the sad concussions of Craig Ochs and the subsequent falling out of graces in the Big 12...a conference we could actually survive within.
I fear the PAC 12 will be our undoing.
Click to expand...

when you say that you've seen "too many teams", does that include CU? If so would you give me a recent example?
 
darth-horax said:
I gave up awhile back, in all reality....but I am an optimist. I've seen too many teams start out slow and pickup enough steam to surprise people.
I'm hoping that's the case here. However, if they can't learn to stop the run, and if Liufau doens't get a quicker release, we're in for another 2.5 years of Hell.

Injuries come into play, other teams can slump, you never know what will happen.
Right now, we're the Northwestern of the PAC-12. Northwestern was solid for a few good years in the 90's, as were the Buffs, but since then, both
have been mediocre at best.

It all started with the sad concussions of Craig Ochs and the subsequent falling out of graces in the Big 12...a conference we could actually survive within.
I fear the PAC 12 will be our undoing.
Click to expand...

NW won 10 games in 2012...
 
No, those teams do NOT include CU, unfortunately.
The last time I remember we were even close to being considered a solid program was with Joel Klatt the year we beat Texas for the Big XII championship.

Hey, if NW can win 10 games, maybe we can, too...someday. ;)

Maybe NW was a lofty comparison...I need more mid-major colleges for comparison.
 
darth-horax said:
I gave up awhile back, in all reality....but I am an optimist. I've seen too many teams start out slow and pickup enough steam to surprise people.
I'm hoping that's the case here. However, if they can't learn to stop the run, and if Liufau doens't get a quicker release, we're in for another 2.5 years of Hell.

Injuries come into play, other teams can slump, you never know what will happen.
Right now, we're the Northwestern of the PAC-12. Northwestern was solid for a few good years in the 90's, as were the Buffs, but since then, both
have been mediocre at best.

It all started with the sad concussions of Craig Ochs and the subsequent falling out of graces in the Big 12...a conference we could actually survive within.
I fear the PAC 12 will be our undoing.
Click to expand...

CU is solidly one of the worst programs in d1 football and I don't see where CU is gaining ground on any of the other p12 schools. If anything, I see the p12 schools pulling away from CU vs CU closing the gap. Ucla, USC, zona, zona state all looking like they are trending up.

Cu's competition at the bottom of the p12: wsu, uu, Oregon state, cal? Where is CU outperforming these schools? Recruiting? Coaching? Support from the university and community? Not surer, but it's always a zero sum game. To move up someone else has to move below you. Who is that someone else?
 
Mark Wetmore said:
CU is solidly one of the worst programs in d1 football and I don't see where CU is gaining ground on any of the other p12 schools. If anything, I see the p12 schools pulling away from CU vs CU closing the gap. Ucla, USC, zona, zona state all looking like they are trending up.

Cu's competition at the bottom of the p12: wsu, uu, Oregon state, cal? Where is CU outperforming these schools? Recruiting? Coaching? Support from the university and community? Not surer, but it's always a zero sum game. To move up someone else has to move below you. Who is that someone else?
Click to expand...

And you are suggesting what, drop the program because we'll never gain ground?
 
darth-horax said:
No, those teams do NOT include CU, unfortunately.
The last time I remember we were even close to being considered a solid program was with Joel Klatt the year we beat Texas for the Big XII championship.

Hey, if NW can win 10 games, maybe we can, too...someday. ;)

Maybe NW was a lofty comparison...I need more mid-major colleges for comparison.
Click to expand...
You have to be joking, Klatt didn't beat Texas for a Big 12 title. That would be Pesavento. Sorry, NW has a better program right now. Good God, I hope you were joking.
 
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