We take you now to Tallahassee, Fla

[azbuff]

I've read the story, lots of developments coming out. The timing is very suspicious to me period, given the facts, and yes the facts extend to the football field in this case.

I already said it should be prosecuted, regardless I'm just not sure if it would be if FSU was doing worse on the football field.

And in terms of your "who cares about the timing of this"... we're not discussing this if FSU is 4-6 right now and Winston isn't a Heisman Trophy contender. It's not nearly as big of a story. So to answer your question, lots of people care about that aspect of it. Not saying it's right, just the cold hard truth.

I doubt it because FSU would still be a pretty high profile program and some of the allegations are pretty strong. What if the timing of the Sandusky disaster breaking was during a national title run by PSU? Would the timing be suspect then? Would we call the victims out for the suspect timing of it?

Jameis could very well be innocent. There is a lot going on here that is bizarre (including the description of the suspect and the alleged eyewitnesses), but since the alleged victim went and got a kit done immediately afterward (BEFORE Jameis was who he is today), I don't think the timing of the Tallahassee PD should be an indictment on the validity of the accusations or the accuser.

 

[azbuff]

I don't think it's clear at all that they're guilty of "wrongdoing".

I assume you're talking about the fact that an officer allegedly told the accuser that if she pressed charges, things could be very rough for her, because Tallahayseed is a football crazy town. Which could be construed as intimidation. It could also be construed as a factually accurate statement that is important for a fully informed person to be aware of. At this point, I don't think we can make any judgements about the way that the statement was intended. We do know that the accuser's family is citing it as an example of intimidation, but like everything else in this case, their reasons for doing so really require more facts in order to be properly judged....

In what universe? Put yourself in the shoes of the father of the female. You honestly think that is an okay statement to make?

 

[Junction]

In what universe? Put yourself in the shoes of the father of the female. You honestly think that is an okay statement to make?

You don't think it might be true that the fans of a team fighting for a MNC might make it hard on the accuser in a case like this? You don't think that maybe the accuser ought to be prepared for that experience, and should maybe be fully aware of the situation she'll be facing before filing the charges?

If it were my daughter, and she was allowed to walk into a rape case filed against the QB of a #2 ranked football team and potential Heisman winner without somebody preparing her for the experience (and for some reason I wasn't able to do so myself), I would be incredibly pissed off. Of course, if it were presented to her as a warning not to **** with the football team, I'd also be pissed. The fact is, it isn't at all clear which way the statement was made, and it would probably behoove all of us to stop jumping to convictions against any party in the case, including the police.

 

[DBT]

Is the local DA asking how we can keep the players away from "our girls"?

Naw. At FSU it's the other way around. "How can we keep these girls away from our players?"

 

[cubuffs85]

I doubt it because FSU would still be a pretty high profile program and some of the allegations are pretty strong. What if the timing of the Sandusky disaster breaking was during a national title run by PSU? Would the timing be suspect then? Would we call the victims out for the suspect timing of it?

Jameis could very well be innocent. There is a lot going on here that is bizarre (including the description of the suspect and the alleged eyewitnesses), but since the alleged victim went and got a kit done immediately afterward (BEFORE Jameis was who he is today), I don't think the timing of the Tallahassee PD should be an indictment on the validity of the accusations or the accuser.

Bad analogy with Penn State, they were I believe 8-1 or 9-1 at the time it happened. And Sandusky is way different than this -- not trying to say this isn't serious, but this isn't as out of the ordinary. You think if it was the placekicker, it be getting as much attention as the Hesiman candidate likely leading his team to the national championship?

 

[azbuff]

Bad analogy with Penn State, they were I believe 8-1 or 9-1 at the time it happened. And Sandusky is way different than this -- not trying to say this isn't serious, but this isn't as out of the ordinary. You think if it was the placekicker, it be getting as much attention as the Hesiman candidate likely leading his team to the national championship?

Missed the point. Poor form to say the allegations are wrong or suspicious based on the "timing" of the investigation, which appears to have little if anything to do with the alleged victim. Sounds like this could have and should have been fully investigated last spring.

 

[azbuff]

You don't think it might be true that the fans of a team fighting for a MNC might make it hard on the accuser in a case like this? You don't think that maybe the accuser ought to be prepared for that experience, and should maybe be fully aware of the situation she'll be facing before filing the charges?

If it were my daughter, and she was allowed to walk into a rape case filed against the QB of a #2 ranked football team and potential Heisman winner without somebody preparing her for the experience (and for some reason I wasn't able to do so myself), I would be incredibly pissed off. Of course, if it were presented to her as a warning not to **** with the football team, I'd also be pissed. The fact is, it isn't at all clear which way the statement was made, and it would probably behoove all of us to stop jumping to convictions against any party in the case, including the police.

You don't think that a college girl who goes to FSU doesn't know that going in? What about the fact the PD told Winston's attorney the case was closed while leaving the victim and her family hanging for months? That doesn't stink to you? Have you read this: http://deadspin.com/cops-covered-up-jameis-winston-case-accusers-family-s-1468332143?

 

[Duff Man]

Actually the kicker can get a lot of bad attention too. Happened with Janikowski at FSU.

 

[cubuffs85]

Missed the point. Poor form to say the allegations are wrong or suspicious based on the "timing" of the investigation, which appears to have little if anything to do with the alleged victim. Sounds like this could have and should have been fully investigated last spring.

I didn't miss the point, your example was if Penn State wasn't relevant that year, would it still be a big deal. I answered that it would because of the circumstances. Your analogy was terrible because they were doing pretty well at the time.

And it's not poor form to say the timing of the allegations are suspicious. That's my OPINION here. I didn't say they were wrong. In fact, I said it should be investigated.

 

[Junction]

You don't think that a college girl who goes to FSU doesn't know that going in? What about the fact the PD told Winston's attorney the case was closed while leaving the victim and her family hanging for months? That doesn't stink to you? Have you read this: http://deadspin.com/cops-covered-up-jameis-winston-case-accusers-family-s-1468332143?

The girl probably knows that on her own, yes. But I also don't think the police should automatically assume that. When counseling a person in a traumatic situation you would often remind them of things they would ordinarily know, just to help them process the information.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't rush to judgement on any part of this. That's what happened at CU and it was bull****. But clearly you've already made the leap, so I hope it works out for you.

 

[azbuff]

The timing of the allegations isn't suspicious at all because the timing of the allegations was prior to Jameis Winston ever playing a down for FSU.

Junction, well, I'm not even sure what leap you think I'm making. Regardless, to be sure, your standpoint is that if a girl gets raped in Lawrence, Kansas by a basketball player, the police should advise her that "things could be very rough for her" because Lawrence is a basketball town? I'm sorry, but I disagree with that assertion from the bottom of my soul.

 

[Junction]

The timing of the allegations isn't suspicious at all because the timing of the allegations was prior to Jameis Winston ever playing a down for FSU.

Junction, well, I'm not even sure what leap you think I'm making. Regardless, to be sure, your standpoint is that if a girl gets raped in Lawrence, Kansas by a basketball player, the police should advise her that "things could be very rough for her" because Lawrence is a basketball town? I'm sorry, but I disagree with that assertion from the bottom of my soul.

I'm saying its possible that they did just that. I'm saying it is accurate to point out that the reaction she might face, while not right, is a real thing that she should be prepared for. And I'm saying that you have completely ruled out the possibility that it could have possibly been said as anyting other than a blatant act of police intimidation, when I would prefer jumping to such conclusions.

 

[MtnBuff]

You can talk all about the girl knew the culture of Tallahassee and the FSU team and that the girl "should know" but the only question that matters is did she at any time prior to the sex say no. If she did then that should stop it right there. Period. She may have made a bad decision by being in the situation she was in, by acting in a way to lead a guy on or to even consent and to cooperate to a point past where she should have. With all of that she ultimately has the right at any point up until the act is done to say no and despite all the hormones flowing she has a right to stop it.

What we don't know, and likely may never know is in this case did she say no or did she decide after it was done that she should have said no.

 

[Uncle Ken]

Actually the kicker can get a lot of bad attention too. Happened with Janikowski at FSU.

Wasn't it the Colorado kid that had an audio tape?

 

[Uncle Ken]

You can talk all about the girl knew the culture of Tallahassee and the FSU team and that the girl "should know" but the only question that matters is did she at any time prior to the sex say no. If she did then that should stop it right there. Period. She may have made a bad decision by being in the situation she was in, by acting in a way to lead a guy on or to even consent and to cooperate to a point past where she should have. With all of that she ultimately has the right at any point up until the act is done to say no and despite all the hormones flowing she has a right to stop it.

What we don't know, and likely may never know is in this case did she say no or did she decide after it was done that she should have said no.

Or more accurately, did she fail to give consent?

 

[SD Buff]

leaving the victim

Alleged victim.

Been reading a lot of FSU spin today and while they are going off in every direction changing stories - what seems to have been consistent so far is

- the 'alleged' victim had a sexual relationship with Winston.
- there are witnesses, including the alleged victims roommate, who support the consensual sex claim.
- Winston had a girlfriend who came into town the next morning.

Will wait to see if Winston is charged. Sounds a lot like the Lisa Simpson case to me right now.

 

[azbuff]

I'm saying its possible that they did just that. I'm saying it is accurate to point out that the reaction she might face, while not right, is a real thing that she should be prepared for. And I'm saying that you have completely ruled out the possibility that it could have possibly been said as anyting other than a blatant act of police intimidation, when I would prefer jumping to such conclusions.

I'm asking if you think it is appropriate for the police to make that statement at all. First off, the girl is probably more aware of her peer group than the police. Second, if anything, maybe her lawyers and her parents could advise her to that risk. The question was whether your standpoint is that if a girl gets raped in Lawrence, Kansas by a basketball player, the police should advise her that "things could be very rough for her" because Lawrence is a basketball town?

Judging by your posts in this thread, I'm guessing your answer is "yes" and we can agree to disagree and move on.

 

[azbuff]

Alleged victim.

Been reading a lot of FSU spin today and while they are going off in every direction changing stories - what seems to have been consistent so far is

- the 'alleged' victim had a sexual relationship with Winston.
- there are witnesses, including the alleged victims roommate, who support the consensual sex claim.
- Winston had a girlfriend who came into town the next morning.

Will wait to see if Winston is charged. Sounds a lot like the Lisa Simpson case to me right now.

Excellent job pointing out the one time I neglected to use the term "alleged." I agree there is a lot wrong with the facts and I pointed that out earlier. I don't know whether Jameis is innocent or not. In my opinion, the DA will probably decline to prosecute the case unless the media firestorm ultimately forces a prosecution, but the alleged eyewitness accounts are going to kill the prosecution's case.

EDIT: The only point I'm trying to make here is the Tallahassee PD screwed up. The case should have been fully investigated and forwarded to the DA and a decision should have been made whether to prosecute or not a long time ago. I'm not sure under what conspiracy theory some anti-FSU fan could dig all this dirt up and bring it to the attention of the relevant authorities, but stop blaming the alleged victim for a delay in prosecution. The PD dropped the ball. The case could have been formally closed months ago if they had done their jobs.

 

[SD Buff]

Excellent job pointing out the one time I neglected to use the term "alleged."

Didn't mean anything by it. Was skimming on my phone and it just jumped out at me.

 

[cubuffs85]

Actually the kicker can get a lot of bad attention too. Happened with Janikowski at FSU.

Good point, but how many kickers are mid first round picks? Janikowski is where I lost a lot of respect with Bobby Bowden. His holier than thou shtick doesn't apply when you are a legit NFL prospect, other than that he can quote the Bible all he wants.

 

[Gary Indiana]

I always love when people use this line. That's great and all, I sure want to win with class. I don't think it's such an either or thing. Obviously it's harder when you have standards but both Northwestern and Stanford have found ways to win and they have greater restrictions than we have.

Perhaps in your rush to mock my opinion of the situation you glossed over my second sentence, which explicitly states, "I am not by any means stating that the two are mutually exclusive". I understand this, but did you even bother to read the Deadspin article that was cited? A lot of successful teams recruit players that are low character or on a Junior High academic level, Urban Meyer teams for example, I was just stating that I do not wish for Colorado to go this route. Also, Northwestern might not be the shining example of success on the football field and classroom, as they have an identical record to the Buffs and play in a conference that is nowhere near the level of the Pac 12.

 

[cubuffs85]

Perhaps in your rush to mock my opinion of the situation you glossed over my second sentence, which explicitly states, "I am not by any means stating that the two are mutually exclusive". I understand this, but did you even bother to read the Deadspin article that was cited? A lot of successful teams recruit players that are low character or on a Junior High academic level, Urban Meyer teams for example, I was just stating that I do not wish for Colorado to go this route. Also, Northwestern might not be the shining example of success on the football field and classroom, as they have an identical record to the Buffs and play in a conference that is nowhere near the level of the Pac 12.

Northwestern is having a down year, I was speaking how they have "found ways to win" even if it isn't THIS YEAR. They've had a lot of success recently, I think we'd love have that kind of track record even if it meant the occasional down year like this one. Pat Fitzgerald has done a great job.

 

[Deleted member 807]

It seems like the Heisman race frequently involves a component of scandal and intrigue.

Add the name of Jamies Winston to a distinguished list of salacious Heisman selection campaign stories.
Johnny Manziel gets in altercations involving racial slurs and signs autographs. A&M lawyers up
Mante Teo has a fake dead GF and ND sits on it
Cam Newton's dad's church gets an overhaul and Auburn finds a loop hole.
Reggie Bush's parents get a new home funded by agents and USC thumbs its nose at the NCAA

This is all part of the vetting process reserved for heroes.
Pagans that make sacrificial offerings to the deities seek to offer up only the most pure in body and spirit. There's no way Aladdin escapes the cave of wonders without a pure and true heart.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[leftybuff]

It seems like the Heisman race frequently involves a component of scandal and intrigue.

Add the name of Jamies Winston to a distinguished list of salacious Heisman selection campaign stories.
Johnny Manziel gets in altercations involving racial slurs and signs autographs. A&M lawyers up
Mante Teo has a fake dead GF and ND sits on it
Cam Newton's dad's church gets an overhaul and Auburn finds a loop hole.
Reggie Bush's parents get a new home funded by agents and USC thumbs its nose at the NCAA

This is all part of the vetting process reserved for heroes.
Pagans that make sacrificial offerings to the deities seek to offer up only the most pure in body and spirit. There's no way Aladdin escapes the cave of wonders without a pure and true heart.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

How do you sit on a dead GF? Is that a special dispensation sort of thing? And who brought up Aladdin and sacrificing virgins?

 

[Deleted member 807]

How do you sit on a dead GF? Is that a special dispensation sort of thing? And who brought up Aladdin and sacrificing virgins?

According to ND, sitting on a fake dead GF involves abundant faith.

Tebow was a virgin.

 

[leftybuff]

According to ND, sitting on a fake dead GF involves abundant faith.

Tebow was a virgin.

???? Skiddy, you didn't....

 

[Deleted member 807]

???? Skiddy, you didn't....

:lol: There just might be a completely different meaning of Tebowing.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

http://www.terezowens.com/heres-what-allegedly-happened-in-the-jameis-winston-sex-scandal/ No idea if there is anything to this.

 

[OUBuff]

Not sure I needed to know that :wow:

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Preliminary investigation over. News Conference tomorrow. Since there is no sort of talk of an arrest warrant out, it sounds like he will likely not be charged.