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Weigh the pros & cons of burning Hirschman's redshirt.

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by sackman, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    But before you do that, let me take you back to 1992. CU's starting QB, Kordell Stewart, gets hurt. The heir apparent, Koy Detmer, is redshirting. Coach McCartney knows that the best chance for CU to finish out the year strong is to have Koy play, even though he's just a true Freshman. He pulls the redshirt, and then redshirts Koy in 1993.

    Totally different situation, I know. Hawkins is gone after this year. He doesn't have a future to play for. There's no upside to him pulling Hirschman's redshirt, because nothing Hawk does will save his job. In fact, pulling the shirt might just put the final nail in his coffin.

    However, here's another perspective that is worth noting - if we feel comfortable that Berglund will be a Buff. And we're comfortable that he's a legit D-1 QB. Then wouldn't it make sense to give him two years' separation between himself and Hirschman?

    Food for thought.
     
  2. dio

    dio Admin Club Member Junta Member

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    As long as Cody is healthy, you leave the RS on Hirschman. If Cody goes down, you have to put Hirsch in.
     
  3. bombay

    bombay Club Member Club Member

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    No way. This season is shot.
     
  4. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Agreed. But next year is not shot. Next year, we'll have a new coach. Wouldn't it be nice to have two quarterbacks with game experience for the next coach to choose from?

    Playing a bit of Devil's advocate here, but pulling the redshirt might not be the worst thing that could happen. Utah did it, and they're better off for it now.
     
  5. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    This season isn't going anywhere with or without Hirschman playing. Reports are that Berlund will be a legit QB and don't forget Nick Sherry who looks to be coming on fast as well. That all said playing Hirschman this year in this offense doesn't speed his development, doesn't win us games, and takes away future options. The two year difference doesn't help as much as having Hirschman available for a full four years, one backing up TH and three competing for the starting job.

    I would play Gorman and/or the WRs before pulling the RS.
     
  6. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    I say yes, burn the shirt if Cody goes down or is completely ineffective.

    There's no way to know if Hirschman is going to be the next Koy. But he likely gives us the best chance to win if Cody can't get it done, and we're still in this to win as many games as possible. This isn't about the coach, it's about winning. They had better be giving him tons of reps this week.
     
  7. Duff Man

    Duff Man Moderator Club Member Junta Member

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    I have always felt Hirschman is a guy that needed 2-3 years in the program before he was ready to be a starter at QB. So I think it is tightrope you walk by throwing him in before he is really ready. Once a young QB's confidence is shot, it can be very hard to get back.

    My guess is the next coach targets a JUCO QB to help the competition in the Spring.
     
  8. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

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    Let Hirschman decide if Cody is not injured. I like the idea of 3-4 kids competing next fall without anyone as a leader going in.
     
  9. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    Don't burn his redshirt. The Detmer situation was totally different. They pulled his redshirt early and I don't think that Stewart was hurt at that time - they were struggling against Minnesota and CU needed a spark to win. CU had just switched to the passing offense from the option. On that team Detmer had a lot of surrounding talent to take the load off.

    Putting a player in that is not ready could destroy his confidence so the coaches would have to gauge if he could handle it.
     
  10. sackman

    sackman Club Member Club Member

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    Kordell was hurt. High ankle sprain. He didn't come back until the bowl game against Syracuse.

    And yes, it's a totally different situation. I wouldn't dispute that. The program is in a vastly different place today than it was in 1992. BB could be right, and Hirschman might still be a good year or two away from being ready. No sense taking away a year of eligibility for a guy who isn't ready. However, if he is ready, or close anyway, then it gives whoever the coach is next year some options.
     
  11. SuperiorBuff

    SuperiorBuff Well-Known Member

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    This would actually be closer to burning Klatt's redshirt, more potential to damage than do good. We will have a new offense next year, any experience for working int he system in live action will be lost.
     
  12. CUBuff98

    CUBuff98 Club Member Club Member

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    Don't burn the kid's RS even *when* CH proves ineffective. I'm tired of seeing good kids have their collegiate career toyed with over this crap.
     
  13. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    What would it have looked like if Joel Klatt had not burned his shirt. We can sit here right now and say that four years from now we will have Berglund and Sherry and whoever else but that is counting chickens before they hatch. This year is done, this team is done, as much as I would like the players to have a decent experience this year and win some games a true frosh QB isn't going to change the damage that Hawk has done. He would be going into a situation with no reasonable running threat, an inconsistent (at best) O-line, no clear offensive identity, and some opponents who have something to play for. Use the walk-on or use the WR's.

    What would we be saying if Hawk hadn't screwed with Lobato and chased him off to UNC where he is the back-up in his first year there behind a senior QB.
     
  14. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    I remember a couple years ago when moving Polk to safety seemed like a good idea to most of us because of the overcrowded RB field we were going to have about now.

    I don't like the idea of burning Nick's RS just to get him a few snaps in a couple games, barring injury to Cody. Let's face it, if Cody's healthy he's not going to come out of the game so that a FR can get extended playing time to get ready for next year.
     
  15. GregInArlington

    GregInArlington Well-Known Member

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    I was against pulling the redshirt at first. But it would be nice to have a QB with some experience on the roster next year. And I feel very confident that our new coach will be able to find a very talented QB to replace Hirschman over the next few years.
     
  16. Sexton Hardcastle

    Sexton Hardcastle Club Member Club Member

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    If Cody goes down, you have to put Hirschman in.
     
  17. BlackNGold

    BlackNGold Club Member Club Member

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    I believe they took the Redshirt off Detmer way before the Kordell's Injury. Detmer played in 7 games that year and Kordell played in 9 games.
     
  18. BuffNut99

    BuffNut99 Club Member Club Member

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    As I said in the other thread, someone needs to tell me what is the difference between redshirting Hirschmann this year or next season. Is he going to be the starter next year, or is he going to backup Hansen? Because the only reason you would keep him redshirted is because you think he is going to be a 4 year starter, beginning with next season. The only time you ever regret burning redshirts is with guys who end up starting three or four years, but unless Hirschman is going to start next year, he is going to be a RS Soph in 2012 either way.
     
  19. MtnBuff

    MtnBuff Not allowed in Barzil 2 Club Member

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    I don't see Hirschmann as the starter next year but I see him as the logical #1 back-up to TH. This means that he will see the field in the event of TH getting nicked in a game, blow-outs, change of pace, etc. He won't likely be the starter but will be a key player following that with being the favorite to start in 2012 after getting the focus of practice and meeting attention given to the back-up and enough playing time to feel comfortable.

    I would like to see him have the opportunity to follow next year with three years as the starter unless someone comes along who can beat him out.
     
  20. Junction

    Junction Moderator Club Member

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    We'll still have Hansen next year...
     
  21. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    you like to have Hirschmann with 4 to play and backing up TH next year but you also have to think about spacing the QB's....so ideally, you RS one of if not both the incoming QB commits (assuming they stay on board depending on the Hawk situ). unless Bergland or Sherry is just too good to keep off the field...

    if Cody goes down, I think you have to play your best guy RS or not. we've got no clue how good Hirschmann really is...so i don't see making decisions about the future in those terms. and even though the season may be in the tank....you still have to show up and play.
     
  22. CUFan

    CUFan Welcome back Club Member

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    Unless Hirschmann just has no idea what he is doing I think you play him (if Cody gets hurt). What else did we recruit him for? It is unfortunate that you may have to burn his redshirt, but it is his job in the end.

    McKnight has got as much heart on this team as anyone, but playing him ahead of Hirschmann seems nuts to me. Absent any recruiting from the new coaching staff we will basically have two QBs next year (since we can't count on Sherry and Berglund actually coming to CU). So that leaves TH and Hirschmann as backup (with potentially no experience if he doesn't play this year).
     
  23. boulder77

    boulder77 Certified Organic Club Member

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    I say that you do not burn his RS unless Cody goes down and will be out for more than a half. I can understand the argument about getting him some game experience. But really, what kind of experience is it going to be for the kid when the play-calling sucks, the OL is a sieve, and he'll be running for his life every snap? The "spacing out" of QBs is nice in theory, but it rarely goes the way you plan it - kids come and go, get hurt, whatever. I think you keep his RS on him unless it is absolutely necessary to burn it.
     
  24. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Do not burn his RS unless cody can't play, period. How this staff continues to cluster **** their way around the qb depth is enough to fire them on that alone.

    Dumb
     
  25. SoCal Bob

    SoCal Bob Member

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    I agree with syko, you don't gain anything by burning his red shirt, unless cody is down and out. He will learn nothing from this staff and next year will be a whole new ball game. If Hirshman is any good, he beats out Hansen next year in a new scheme for both.
     
  26. SINKRATZ

    SINKRATZ Club Member Club Member

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    Absolutely! If Cody goes down, you play him - no question. It may suck to lose a redshirt this late in the season, but s**t happens and that's the backup's job. And if you're Hirschmann, you jump at the chance to play. There are no guarantees in life, if you ge the chance to be a Div 1 starting QB, you take it and never give it back, who knows if you'll ever get another chance. Planning on having a kid be a 4 year starter is stupid, how often does that happen? Play the best QB you have and go recruit a better one every year - then you'll never have this type of problem..
     

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