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What do you do about HC if you're RG?
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
I presume Miller = MM?
This is an interesting statement you make, and my question is serious. What makes you say that Barnett was respected in football circles, where as MM is not?
Is it because Barnett was respected in football circles after turning the NW program around prior to coming here as a HC? Or did he garner more respect than MM in football circles prior to achieving what he did at NW?
Is honoring scholarships of a previous staff, during a coaching transition really unheard of, especially when you have about a month and a half left before signing day (a month of which is a dead period)?
As far as the staff issues, it was was clearly a mistake to bring his entire staff; I don't think anyone would argue that. Does that mean he's "too nice" and not cut out for a P5 job? I struggle to see that as hard evidence. He clearly fired Baer and LaRussa, and is going to be doing the same with at least 2-3 other staff members this off season.
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. I saw his retention of that class at the 11th hour as a strength!
I'm not sure if you're actually agreeing with me or not, but I just don't understand the "Mr. Nice Guy" narrative simply because he honored the recruits of the previous staff. Was he supposed to drop them all and start over during the dead period in December? Would it have been better for the team had he dumped Embree's recruits and replaced them with all of his guys going to SJSU? Would that have made the team better and been proof that he isn't such a nice guy, that everybody wants to complain about now?
Do you really think anyone here is suggesting that?
No. I just don't understand what people wanted him to do with that recruiting class.
Keep some of the better ones, turn lose the guys that aren't FBS level players, hire a staff that can recruit at the FBS level (he had the budget to do this), and land some players. That is what successful FBS coaches do.
I'll repeat what I said earlier... He was hired in mid December, either during or just before the recruiting dead period that lasts until mid January. With signing day being 2 weeks after the dead period ends, at what point was he and/or his staff supposed to hit the recruiting trail and flip some FBS level recruits to the dumpster fire that was/is CU? Maybe I'm missing something with the recruiting timeline and I'm way off base, but I think this narrative is somewhat unreasonable.
Not unreasonable actually. Very common for new coaches with the same timeline constraints to not honor all scholarship offers.
BlackNGold
Club Member
Yes, coaches do it all the time. You look for 3 star players that have some offers that have not decided yet or might have a reason to switch. Embree got Mark Mustoe to switch from UCLA after he was hired - also picked up guys like Spruce, Nembot, Juda Parker, Woodson Greer, Greg Henderson, McCullogh, not all world beaters but contributed. My concern is that MacIntyre hardly ever seems to win a head to head battle with another P5 program...there is a reason we are one of the worst P5 programs around.
Wouldn't you say the situation at CU was a little unique coming off the heels of Embree's tenure? Without a "name" coach or high profile P5 coordinator, bringing some recruits with him, being the guy that was hired, I struggle to see how effective MM could have been in flipping recruits in late January without speaking to any of them until then.
A bit of circular logic going on there.
Embree was a UCLA assistant that had a clear cut "in" with Mustoe... Mac was a Head Coach at a WAC program. He didn't have a P5 level recruiting well to pull from when he took the CU job.
And are you saying that Spruce, Nembot, Juda, Hendo, McCullogh, etc. were all recruits that he either flipped or brought in himself (that had no CU interest prior)?
MM might not have had many "clear ins" with big recruits as SJ St's coach, that is why we are saying he should have hired assistant coaches that did.
No matter how many excuses you make, what MM did during his first 2 years as CU's head coach didn't work. It didn't produce they type of talent we needed this year to win. That is entirely on him.
Hindsight recruiting is fun.
Let's go through the list then and determine who should have been let go, and whom should have been retained.
For the record, according to ESPN, everyone on this list is a 3* except for Sefo (4*), and then Gilliam, Adkins, McCartney, and Olugbode (All of whom were unranked). So of this class in question, he failed by signing all of the unranked guys, and retaining or bringing in the 3*'s that he did?
Name Pos. Ht. Wt. Hometown (High School) Biography Video
ADKINS, Michael II RB 5-10 190 San Diego, Calif. (Helix) Read Play
AWUZIE, Chidobe DB 6-0 190 San Jose, Calif. (Oak Grove) Read Play
BOBO, Bryce WR 6-3 190 Covina, Calif. (Charter Oak) Read Play
COLEMAN, Timothy Jr. DL 6-3 245 Denver, Colo. (Mullen) Read Play
DUNSTON, Elijah WR 6-0 180 Reseda, Calif. (Chaminade Prep) Read Play
FRAZIER, George LB 6-2 255 Monrovia, Calif. (Monrovia) Read Play
GILBERT, Jimmie DL 6-5 230 College Station, Texas (A&M Consolidated) Read Play
#GILLAM, Addison LB 6-3 225 Palo Cedro, Calif. (Foothill) Read Play
GRAHAM, Gunnar OL 6-5 305 Belvedere, Calif. (Marin Catholic) Read Play
HUCKINS, Jonathan OL 6-3 310 The Woodlands, Texas (The Woodlands) Read Play
KRONSHAGE, Sam OL 6-5 275 The Woodlands, Texas (The Woodlands) Read Play
LINDSAY, Phillip RB/DB 5-7 170 Aurora, Colo. (Denver South) Read Play
LISELLA, John II OL 6-4 240 Littleton, Colo. (Columbine) Read Play
LIUFAU, Sefo QB 6-4 215 Tacoma, Wash. (Bellarmine Prep) Read Play
OLUGBODE, Kenneth LB 6-1 205 San Jose, Calif. (Bellarmine Prep) Read Play
*REED, Markeis LB 6-4 220 Napa, Calif. (Vintage) Read Play
ROSS, Devin WR 5-10 180 Altadena, Calif. (Bishop Alemany) Read Play
SEVERSON, Ryan ILB 5-11 195 San Jose, Calif. (Valley Christian) Read Play
SUTTON, Colin OL 6-5 295 Foothill Ranch, Calif. (Orange Lutheran) Read Play
THOMPSON, Tedric DB 6-1 200 Valencia, Calif. (Valencia) Read Play
Grayshirts (previously announced, counted in 2012 class; enrolled this semester)
KOUGH, Gerrad OL 6-5 295 Pomona, Calif. (Pomona) Read Play
McCARTNEY, Derek DL 6-4 240 Westminster, Colo. (Faith Christian) Read Play
THOMAS, Jeff WR 6-3 195 Dallas, Texas (Duncanville) Read Play
#— signed with San Jose State in its 2012 class but was grayshirted; decided to attend CU and enrolled this semester.
*—December 2012 high school graduate; enrolled at CU for spring semester.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to turn this into a recruiting argument. I am well aware of the sub par recruiting that has been going on. My point was about the idea that Mike MacIntyre is simply "too nice" to be a successful P5 head coach.
RG should be sending out feelers although MacIntyre is coming back. The 2016 team will have the most seniors & juniors on a Buffs squad since 2001 and even next season's team will have more of those than the 2001 team. RG's job is real easy in this case: if MacIntyre doesn't go to a bowl game next season, he's gone no questions asked.
Another good reason to put out those feelers is that due to the large senior & junior class we will have, it's very possible that MacIntyre decides to coach elsewhere in 2017 because in 2018, the Buffs would be facing the task of replacing about 60 players lost from the 2016 & 2017 rosters. We need to really be killing it in recruiting for the 2017 class and that could play a factor in whether MacIntyre returns in 2017 or not.
Another good reason to put out those feelers is that due to the large senior & junior class we will have, it's very possible that MacIntyre decides to coach elsewhere in 2017 because in 2018, the Buffs would be facing the task of replacing about 60 players lost from the 2016 & 2017 rosters. We need to really be killing it in recruiting for the 2017 class and that could play a factor in whether MacIntyre returns in 2017 or not.
buffs04
Well-Known Member
Would you argue that a class of 25 with an average of 3.2 stars is equivalent in quality to a class of 10 with an average of 3.2 stars? I would not.
Sorry, didn't mean to derail your question. But it got me thinking about the arguments being made and what the facts are....so I wanted to look into it a bit. I don't really follow recruiting nearly as closely as some on here, so I don't know what the best services are....but I went to the most readily available source for me (Google class year ==> ESPN link).
Saw some pretty interesting things. The vast majority of recruits that have been brought in during the MM years have been 3* (again, according the ESPN), a handful of 4* last year, and a handful for NR guys each year (read 2-3ish), and no 5*.
People want MM to recruit better and consistently bring in 3* guys that can compete. Well, it seems to me that he has been doing that. And the NR guys that he's been getting, well, he seems to have a relatively good track record with those guys panning out.
Honest question, what am I missing regarding recruiting? Handful of 4*, lots of 3*, and a few diamonds that seem to actually make an impact. seems to me that this is an acceptable trend given where we've been and where we need to go.
buffs04
Well-Known Member
This is not a complete characterization of recruiting under MM, IMO. He is bringing in a lot of 2**/low 3* and below type of players. The spread in quality between the type of the 3* range and the bottom of the 3* range is quite large. Others who are more well-informed than me have discussed this issue at length on this board in the past.
Embree hadnt coached at ucla since 2006 when we hired him in 2011.
And none of the players you listed had any interest at all in cu before embree was hired.
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I understand that. When things aren't going well, people want to point the finger of blame at whatever is convenient (human nature), and the current issue is MM not being a good enough recruiter, previously it has been coaches not "coaching up the players" or lacking schematic chops (Embree's staff got this one, because they actually did appear to recruit well), or any of the other multitude of reasons that seem relevant at the time.
My point all along has been that MM has finally been able to generally retain players in the program. That, to me is step number ONE when it comes to coaching players up....and getting the most out of what we have. We are finally at a point in my opinion where we might actually see the fruits of that philosophy (Senior and Junior dominated team), and before it even happens we want to axe the guy because he's not a good enough recruiter?
Seems to me that he has been a generally decent evaluator of talent given some of the NR guys he's grabbed that have played well here.
I'm not making that argument at all, but that's not the case for Oregon State. For general rankings, they are ranked 7th in the Pac 12 with 1403 "points" (whatever that means). When you rank them by avg star, they drop to 10th in the Pac 12, behind 3 teams with higher general "scores".
My fault, I thought he came directly from UCLA to CU.
BuffaloB
Active Member
Rivals has MM recruiting a total of 1 4*, Shay Fields, and he was 3* on ESPN. If you look at generally more generous ESPN rankings he has recruited a total of 3 4* and not 1 ESPN 300 player. His class ranks have all be in the 60s or 70s. His former team SJ State has had higher ranked classes.
BlackNGold
Club Member
Wow. How about getting your facts straight if you are trying to use them to argue. Embree Left UCLA after the 2005 season - Mustoe was in 7th or 8th grade at that time. I don't think that is much of an in with him. The lack of P5 assistants with recruiting was an outcome of MacIntyre's decision making on his staff - he has to own it.