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Who are the top 10 coaches in college football?
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
funny stat. what is Mack, .500 against OU? less? ATM has been mediocre his entire tenure at UT, Arkansas too. Tech? UT's "arch-rival"?
HornBuff
Horns Down
Good one! Very funny and original.
If it weren't for Radio you guys wouldn't have won a MNC under Brown. You put him on USC or OSU that year and those teams win the MNC, if not many more teams. He was that good.
Mack ranks lower for me because he is too loyal to Greg Davis (same with Richt at UGA) and his coaching tree isn't that great. Stop playing a SWC OOC schedule and we'll start talking. Tressel loads up on Ohio cupcakes, but they regularly play a traditionally strong BCS opponent, even if they aren't strong when they come to town.
Stoops isn't afraid of playing great teams OOC either. Same with Richt. Same with 'Bama and the same with a lot of other places. Hell, Florida plays FSU every year OOC.
I like how Bebe wants the Mack-10 to start scheduling tough teams. It's for no other purpose of helping the SoS problems Texas is going to face, being that he's UT's mouthpiece. It'll be interesting to see if Texas changes their policy.
HornBuff
Horns Down
Brown is in the ball park of .500 with OU. I think, plus or minus, probalby plus. I'd have to look it up. Look, if you're just going to discout any win no matter what, you can play that game with any coach or team or athelete in any sport. Good grief. Look at his record against top 25 opponents if that stat doesn't make you happy.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
6-7 against OU. 5-7 against Stoops; 1-0 against Boo Blake. i looked it up out of curiousity.
HornBuff
Horns Down
If, if, if, if.....if the Patriots didn't have Tom Brady, if the Bulls didn't have Jordan, if the Colts didn't have Manning, if the Laker's didn't have Kobe, if Bama didn't have Ingram last year, if Colt wouldn't have been knocked out in the first five minutes, if florida didn't have tebow, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if,
for the record the UT national champ team put almost every starter on both sides of the ball in the NFL...about the same for SC
lastly, we did have Vince...mack recruited him...that's what head coaches do
Mack Brown also made North Carolina the only real ACC threat to Florida State back in the day. He's a heck of a football coach. I think the "head coach in waiting" thing is starting to take its toll on his organization, though. People need to know who their boss is and not worry about the next boss. Having Colt as an upperclassmen the last 2 seasons covered some of the underlying problems that were creeping in, I think. Not that Texas has been bad (by any stretch), but the questions are starting about which coach the players actually committed to, whether Muschamp is even going to stick around until Brown retires, and whether the UT powers that be are still 100% sold on Muschamp with the way his defense has played at times this season.
Anyway, staying on topic for this thread, I still say Mack is an elite, elite coach. The current situation is reminding me of the end of Bowden's tenure at Florida State, though. Except that Mack is still only 59 years old.
Anyway, staying on topic for this thread, I still say Mack is an elite, elite coach. The current situation is reminding me of the end of Bowden's tenure at Florida State, though. Except that Mack is still only 59 years old.
HornBuff
Horns Down
Are you saying that's bad? Stoops is a great coach too and OU is a great program. I'll take .500 agaisnt OU. They're typically ranked in the top 5.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
no, i'm just saying that "arch-rivals" stat has a lot of padding with the addition of Tech and Arkansas (who hasn't been in the same conference as UT in 15 years). over half the losses are to OU....so statistical relevance seems more strategic than persuasive.
You still never responded to my OOC scheduling. Yeah, that's right.
Brown is a hell of a recruiter. In fact, I'd say he's the best at that. Bar none.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
Mack is possibly the best recruiter in football. What he does with that talent puts him outside of the top 10 coaches. He has had equal talent to USC and probably better than OU, meaning to me he rarely has an excuse for not being in a BCS game let alone the MNC.
HornBuff
Horns Down
I hear what you're saying, but I think you need more data. People are overreacting to one bad season after a VERY long and unbroken run of phenominal success...and it should be clear that Texas was sucking for about 15 years before Brown came in.
Also, Texas OOC schedules are looking pretty stout going forward, especially against Texas OOC schedules of the past.
HornBuff
Horns Down
What?!?! Did you not see the stats? He's practically won everything. His stats are amazing. He has done wonders with the talent he has. There are about 10 schools, at least, with equal talent as Texas and Texas has outperformed nearly all of them.
SC has had consistetly better talent, prob the same for OU, maybe even. In the glory years SC has five-star guys three deep at lots of positions. UT was not near at that level.
HornBuff
Horns Down
I think you're nitpicking, but that's just my opinion. The point of the stat is just simply that he's got a good record agaisnt the "teams that matter" when it comes to rivalires. That's a big deal in college football. Lots of good coaches with decent overall records get run out of town for not having good records against their main/historic rivals.
The most telling statistic to me for Mack Brown is that he only has 2 Big 12 championships? That's pretty average considering how much Texas has going for it. Mack is a hell of a program builder and recruiter, probably the best, but I won't give it to him over Saban or someone like that as an overall coach. The Big 12 has been pretty ****ty the last 10 years or so, Colorado has been awful, Nebraska has sucked, A&M has been crap. That's pretty much all of the historically good teams in the B12 aside from OU and UT. If Mack beats Oklahoma in any given year, he has no excuse for not winning B12 championships.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
i don't think it's nitpicking but rather an accurate interpretation of a padded stat. UT's legit arch-rivals are ATM and OU. Arkansas hasn't played UT regularly in 15 years (at least) and never (regularly) in the Brown era...i don't see those W's as particularly meaningful. Tech is not one of UT's "arch-rivals" of the order of ATM or OU. Ark and Tech are added to pad the stats. they are clearly not on the level of OU or ATM as a rival. ask any (other) horn fan. the stat asks the reader to assume all 4 teams are equal in the category of "archrival" when clearly they are not.
HornBuff
Horns Down
If you're honest with yourself you'll admit that you're just picking the one thing, the only stat, that is not terribly impressive. If Brown had more B12 wins you would just look for someting else.
---------- Post added at 01:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------
Let go of the stat. Forget it. Look at the other 20 stats instead.
Claiming that Mack Brown isn't one of the top 10 coaches is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. Nobody is perfect, and Mack certainly has some game management issues. The guy wins, though. Ultimately, that's the true measuring stick of any coach.
My 10.
1. Meyer
2. Saban
3. Stoops (Bob)
4. Brown
5. Tressel
6. Pelini (it really, REALLY hurts to admit this)
7. Harbaugh
8. Miles
9. Bielema
10. Wittingham
My 10.
1. Meyer
2. Saban
3. Stoops (Bob)
4. Brown
5. Tressel
6. Pelini (it really, REALLY hurts to admit this)
7. Harbaugh
8. Miles
9. Bielema
10. Wittingham
You really shouldn't be this honest.
Whoever just played CU seems to always look like the best coach in the nation, so I'll go with Tuberville. I'm not sure Mack Brown is the best coach on his own staff (Muschamp). He is great at handpicking HS juniors that line up to play at UT, but I don't share HornBuff's hard-on for the guy's actual coaching ability.
No I'm not, I'm picking the most important stat to me when deciding how great a coach is. I'm not trying to throw Brown under the bus, if you would look at the list I made earlier, I think I put Brown as #6 or somewhere around there. I easily think he's a top 10 coach in college football. I just don't think he's #1, which you seem to be arguing for.
He has 2 B12 championships in 13 years. His home state where he barely even has to lift a finger to recruit, is by far the most talent rich area. He should have more than 2 championships. Just compare him to Stoops, in one year less than Brown, Stoops has won 6 B12 championships and lost 1. He has a slightly worse overall W-L record, but I'll go ahead and put that minuscule difference on the fact that Stoops' teams play OOC schedules with a pulse, as well as lose bowl games to national champions, while Texas wins 2nd tier bowls. Hell Brown has only even coached in 4 BCS bowl games total.
How can any real Buff fan like the Whorns?
I think Mack is a good coach. I also think Horn wants to suck him off. Anyone think I am wrong?
Deleted member 807
Guest
I think Mack Brown is paying the price in 2010 for padding Colt McCoy's stats in 2009.
If Mack Brown were a great coach, he'd have recognized that football is not about pimping a heisman candidate above developing next season's QB.
Guys who've built it themselves impress me most. A few guys below may not have been able to build it themselves if they didn't follow great recruiters who were horrible coaches. They inherited great talent and turned the fortunes quickly, which put them in the enviable position of being able to show recruits the path to the NFL, which makes recruiting easy. In general, one trick ponies worry me.
The current top coaches to me are the guys all named, including Pelini (painfully enough). I do wonder if Pelini would have been able to turn it around so well if he had followed Frank Solich who hadn't recruited well in awhile. Callahan came in and recruited VERY well but wasn't an effective head coach, just a good offensive coordinator as he continue to prove with the Jets. Pelini comes in as one of the top Defensive minds in football and it was a perfect situation. Lots of talent that needed a coach. Now with that success behind him, Pelini is recruiting as well as anyone. Not sure he would have been effective at all following Solich though where he would have had a tougher "sell" and the guy can't sell. He doesn't have to anymore. Top 10 coach though in my book. (Bob Stoops could be substituted in the above perhaps).
June Jones - multiple successes. SMU is improving. Watch out Texas schools.
Harbaugh - 1 trick but very impressive as Stanford wasn't loaded when he got there.
Patterson - TCU is his deal. Pretty awesome job.
O'Brien (NCSU) - improving team after Boston College success.
Dantonio - MSU continues to get better after he put Cincy on the map.
Troy Calhoun - Offensive guy from the NFL, put Air Force back in a good position. Loses D-Coordinator and sees no drop off on D this year.
Hoke - Defensive guy who's Ball State team was pretty good. He left, has to hire 2 coordinators at SDSU and has them now as one of the most improving teams, while Ball State under Hoke's old O-Coordinator is returning to their losing ways.
Art Briles - Houston and Baylor both improved steadily under him. Houston seems to be starting to lose some of their luster as Briles effect wears off.
Mike Leach - he's not coaching, but what he did at Tech was amazing.
Whittingham - he was part of Urban's success at Utah and has kept it up and maybe elevated it.
Dan Mullen - follows a long list of good DC's who've had immediate success as head coaches. (oc's seem more likely to get the head jobs, but DC's seem to do better).
The current top coaches to me are the guys all named, including Pelini (painfully enough). I do wonder if Pelini would have been able to turn it around so well if he had followed Frank Solich who hadn't recruited well in awhile. Callahan came in and recruited VERY well but wasn't an effective head coach, just a good offensive coordinator as he continue to prove with the Jets. Pelini comes in as one of the top Defensive minds in football and it was a perfect situation. Lots of talent that needed a coach. Now with that success behind him, Pelini is recruiting as well as anyone. Not sure he would have been effective at all following Solich though where he would have had a tougher "sell" and the guy can't sell. He doesn't have to anymore. Top 10 coach though in my book. (Bob Stoops could be substituted in the above perhaps).
June Jones - multiple successes. SMU is improving. Watch out Texas schools.
Harbaugh - 1 trick but very impressive as Stanford wasn't loaded when he got there.
Patterson - TCU is his deal. Pretty awesome job.
O'Brien (NCSU) - improving team after Boston College success.
Dantonio - MSU continues to get better after he put Cincy on the map.
Troy Calhoun - Offensive guy from the NFL, put Air Force back in a good position. Loses D-Coordinator and sees no drop off on D this year.
Hoke - Defensive guy who's Ball State team was pretty good. He left, has to hire 2 coordinators at SDSU and has them now as one of the most improving teams, while Ball State under Hoke's old O-Coordinator is returning to their losing ways.
Art Briles - Houston and Baylor both improved steadily under him. Houston seems to be starting to lose some of their luster as Briles effect wears off.
Mike Leach - he's not coaching, but what he did at Tech was amazing.
Whittingham - he was part of Urban's success at Utah and has kept it up and maybe elevated it.
Dan Mullen - follows a long list of good DC's who've had immediate success as head coaches. (oc's seem more likely to get the head jobs, but DC's seem to do better).