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Why did you turn on Hawk so much so fast?

Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Buffnik, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    Heading into the CSU game, Buff Nation was overwhelmingly positive toward Hawkins.

    I'd say there were 4 groups of Buffs fans:

    1) Hawk Lovers. True believers that Hawkins is high character, great recruiter, great leader, and a heck of a coach who's proven he can build a consistent winner.

    2) Hawk Likers. Excused 2006 (Montana State, overall season & recruiting class), really pumped up after 2007 improvement to a bowl game and recruiting class, felt like he slipped in 2008 season and recruiting but excused the season based on youth/injuries while preaching that the recruiting was better than it looked on paper. Said that Hawk stepped into a bad situation, has done a ton of good, is great on everything except his won/loss record... and he needs to show he can pull it together with wins/losses in 2009 to keep the support.

    3) Hawk Dislikers. Pretty much the same as the "Hawk Likers", except for thinking that he's a bit too weird, wasn't necessarily their top choice for a hire in 2006, and skeptical that he or his assistants know what it takes to get it done in an upper echelon BCS conference.

    4) Hawk Haters. Questioned his resume when he was hired, read his quotes and figured him for more of a Boulder nutter than a head football coach, probably lost any hope that Hawk could get it done after the Montana State loss, and has ripped Hawk at every turn for over 3 years.

    What's amazing to me is that the people in the #2 camp seemed to skip #3 and go straight to #4 after one game. Most of the rest followed after the second game.

    Why did so many of us go from sunshine pumping with a bit of wait-and-see mixed in... straight to "FIRE HAWKINS"?

    I've been giving this a lot of thought because it's how it went for me and normally I would have just gotten very skeptical after starting 0-2 but still been in the #3 opinion group.

    For me at least, I think that I was so enthusiastic about what Hawkins was saying. I bought it when, in hindsight, I should have been more skeptical. What I saw against CSU caused everything I'd hoped was true to come crashing down in one big reality check. Toledo confirmed my fear. I realized that I'd been duped, was angry at myself, and lost all faith in Hawkins or his staff. I also stopped believing a word they said. At this point, I have no faith in anything they say or do. Usually when I'd become negative on a coach, I still had hope that he could possibly prove me wrong. I don't even feel that with Hawkins and I just want to start over with a new coach who will make me believe again.
     
  2. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    The big talk, 10 wins and then the performance the first 2 games and the excuses that followed did it for me. I have a hard time believing anything he says.

    Thing is,I don't want another coaching search and another turnover in players and starting over again. I just want hawk and cu to start winning but if this continues the rest of the season , what hope is there for next season and beyond?

    They need to go to WV and find anyway to win and get some mojo.
     
  3. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    I am started in #2 and I am still there.
     
  4. InTheBuff

    InTheBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I was a #2 but should have been a #3.
    Should have known better after last year as CU could only beat a crappy Kansas St 14-13 and had a goal line stand to eek out a win over Iowa St BOTH IN BOULDER.
     
  5. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Oh sorry, started #2 now # 3.
     
  6. TheRoyale90

    TheRoyale90 Member

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    Believe it or not I was in group 2 and yes I went straight to group 4. I guess I was spoiled by the consistent excellence of the football program throughout the 90's ('97 was a lost year but still competitive). We averaged close to 9 wins a season, won the MNC, had a Heisman winner, and sent a slew of players to the NFL. This decade started off slow, picked up a little steam through '01 and '02 and then the wheels came off. We're light years away from being elite and having trouble just playing the game. It is what it is. After thread brawling with fatbuff and chilly today I realized that it's over. It doesn't matter if I make my point or they make theirs. The results are on the field. We've become the easy 'W' for the rest of the BigXII and I don't see that changing. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Dan Hawkins is reading this right now and knows that I want him to win 100% of our games for as long as he's here. I'd rather be wrong and have us winning than be right and continue to lose.
     
  7. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    Juicebox over-promised and has under-delivered. That's always a recipe for failure.
     
  8. SanDiegoBuff

    SanDiegoBuff Club Member Club Member

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    I was squarely in camp 2.

    What really pushed me to thinking the buck stops at Hawkins, is the lack of progress. The product on the field, even against Wyoming hasn't changed in 2 years. Same mistakes, same quotes, same excuses.

    I hope he does something this season to push me back into camp 2. I just on't see it.
     
  9. Buff fanatic

    Buff fanatic Well-Known Member

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    Im also in catergory number 2. AND, I think we're being a little negative. Im thinking extension----we have a longer winning streak than Kneebraska, Southern Miss, USC. picky mother****ers.:smile2:
     
  10. mke1010

    mke1010 Member

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    Ironically, I was in category one when Hawkins was first hired. However, I began to dislike the man after his rant about DI vs intrmurals. I felt he was disrespectful to the people he was mocking. (parents and players alike) Hence, I decided to base my assessment of him on how we performed on the field without excuse. And since he has not been able to stand the heat in the kitchen, most of my opinions of him have been vile. Shouldn't he deserve the same type of judgment as he placed on others? Just asking.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
  11. JimmyBuff

    JimmyBuff Well-Known Member

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    I'm was between 2 and 3 even before the season.. I'm still more pissed we blew the Nebraska game and an opportunity to go to a bowl game last year than our 0-2 start this year..
     
  12. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    Hell I went from 1 to 4. Don't ever lose to CSU its embarrassing and it is the same thing that caused me to dislike Barnett. Never lose to CSU and have a winning record versus ****braska and I will pretty much back you as the coach forever.
     
  13. White_Rabbit

    White_Rabbit Club Member Club Member

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    I guess I'm a little bit of #2 and #3. I still like Hawk and he probably was what was needed to clean the program up.
     
  14. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    I'm with you on CSU.

    But historically, we never have a winning overall record against Nebraska. If we beat them this year, that puts us at 5-5 against them this decade. That would make the 2000s our best ever decade against the Corn, iirc. I'd say a winning record against Nebraska at Folsom and a coach has my undying support.
     
  15. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    I think with the roster limits and Big 12 requirements a winning record versus the bugeaters shouldn't be out of the question.
     
  16. Timbuff10

    Timbuff10 Member

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    To answer the question in the title... Basically because of how we lost. To a lesser extent who we lost to and that we lost at all.

    I've said it before, I can handle losing simply because no one wins them all. Look at USC and Ohio State. When you put a team out there on the field that looks like it has no clue what is going on, and the lack of leadership and motivation shows through like it did in those first two games, that is why turning on Hawk happened so quickly.

    Winning is good too, but same thing goes for my comments about losing up above. We still looked like a disaster as a team against Wyoming. Yeah a win is a win but that was easily the worst feeling shutout win I have ever seen from a CU team. There were still far too many mistakes and points left on the field and I am pretty confident that about 80% of Division I football teams could have beaten us last weekend.
     
  17. Buffnik

    Buffnik Real name isn't Nik Club Member Junta Member

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    It's not. Just saying what would be enough to get my support. :smile:

    If someone achieves your standard (undefeated vs CSU & over .500 vs NU), there's a chance I'd start a religion and begin praying to a bobblehead of the coach. :smile2:
     
  18. Darian3Hagan

    Darian3Hagan '89 Player of the Year Club Member

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    Where's the collection plate? :smile2:
     
  19. zbuff

    zbuff Club Member Club Member

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    I admit I was a #2, but I'm more like a 2.5 now. I always thought he had a game plan, I excused last year largely due to injury, and he did beat OU. But the coaching decisions this year are mind-boggling. As someone else pointed out, doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insane. Tunnel-vision red-shirting a guy who was supposedly neck-and-neck but brings a different game? Wow. Maybe there is a little hope, because the defense looked slightly better against an overmatched Wyoming team. Nah, good teams on the horizon. Hope is eternal, or is it?
     
  20. DBT

    DBT Club Member Club Member

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    Hawk made the mistake of getting our expectations unreasonably high. First, he came out and talked about "10 wins", whatever the context was. Then he talked, in the press, about how much better we had been in practice. On top of that, we've had some pretty damned good recruits, which has raised out expectations.

    After all of that, he went out and laid two eggs in a row. Not good.
     
  21. buffsyko

    buffsyko Club Member Club Member

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    Exactly, but what made it worse is bohn coming out and saying the program was in worse shape than was told. Not a good thing after all the good things we heard before the season.
     
  22. Mick Ronson

    Mick Ronson Well-Known Member

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    after it became apparent the "Boise Playbook"/"You blitz, we score" talk of preseason #1 was BS (even behind the BJax at QB murkiness, the O gameplan seemed like it was made up week by week)....i thought Hawk had some Big Talk vs. credibility issues. those have really come to the fore this season thus far. like others, i don't put much credence in anything he says....and don't like being treated like i'm a internet scummy moron who deserves the lamest, most blithe answers to direct questions that pertain to his very questionable wins and losses job performance. other coaches get in front of the mic and take some blame, Hawk seems to refer back to a set of platitudes that are circular with the bottom line that the platitudes and the losing remain constant.

    i remember watching the Year 1 CU All Access show. they devoted a lot of time to Hawk's pregame/postgame motivational speeches. i remember a lot of players looking at their shoes or the ceiling with bored looks on their faces. as silly as the speeches were (about going through the fire, getting your horns out and the crucible, etc.), at the time i chalked it up to the coaching transition and some of Barney's guys not "buying in".

    now, it seems all too familiar when i hear the guy deflect every criticism with a bunch of hooey, the all-purpose media scapegoat, or PR friendly jive.

    i still give the guy the rest of the season to eek out a minimum of 6 wins. other than that, i'm off the Hawk-wagon. what i *don't* want to see is a couple late season garbage wins and maybe a mild upset at home (KU, MU, NU), get to 5 wins, and see Hawk act like he's pulled a miracle season from the ashes and the whole kool-aid cycle start up again with the official sources like the AD and the Bohn cronies a la Neil Woelk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  23. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    That's my biggest beef with Hawk. I wonder if he had not said anything like that, and we have a mediocre season, if I would have a different view on Hawk. I might have said, "Hawk is right, we need a little more work." and looked forward to next season. Now, I don't want to see Hawk next season.
     
  24. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    :yeahthat:
    Believe it or not, I'm old school about this. I don't hire coaches, and my whining doesn't get a new one in the door. Therefore, I try to support the guy in the hot seat, win or lose. When a president gets in office who I didn't support, he's still my president. When CU has a coach with whom I don't see eye to eye, he's still CU's coach. So I look for ways to be supportive, and barring that, I try to stay quiet.

    From everything he's said, Hawkins is approaching coaching in a different direction than just about anyone I've seen. He's taking pages out of self-help books, and politics, and historic warfare. It can't be something these teenagers have experienced before. These players may or may not "get it" -- may or may not respond. The light could switch on and we would see a huge difference when it all clicks. Or not.

    But I really do think he is trying to win and the right way. Whether this is a huge success or a miserable failure, is yet to be seen. Two losses does not tell me everything I need to know. Neither does one win.
     
  25. Chilly

    Chilly Well-Known Member

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    This make no sense to me in all honesty. The reason we want to fire Hawkins is because he was saying good things about his team. Had he not said good things about this team you would be willing to give the extra year?

    I mean what did you want him to say. Yeah we are 1 year away so don't count on much this year? That would have been a great way to motivate his team.
     
    AlferdJasper likes this.
  26. AlferdJasper

    AlferdJasper Well-Known Member

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    I agree.


    He set the bar high and asked the players to exceed his expectations. That is what I want a coach to do.
    If anyone doesn't think he looked surprised during the Toledo game, you have a way different perception than I do. Let's hope adjustments are made and we see progress every game.

    p.s. you guys will be back on the HawkLove wagon next year when we rock. I just know it.
     
  27. buffaloed

    buffaloed New Member

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    I'm wondering how much Hawkins regrets the "10 wins" speech.
     
  28. SkiTownUSA

    SkiTownUSA Administrator Club Member Junta Member

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    I guess I didn't make myself clear. I apologize for that. What I was trying to say is that the whole "10 win" thing made me have high expectations. I was expecting no less than 8 wins this year. I believed Hawk, I thought this would be the season. The big turn around. With expectations being high, and coming out a getting stomped by two of the three softest teams on our schedule spoke volumes of the current state of the program. It crushed me. So what I was saying is that if the expectations wern't so high I might have a different outlook. Or at least a better temperment. I'm pretty well over it now, and don't have anymore expectations for the season. But, I still don't think Hawk is the right guy for the job.
     
  29. PurifydatA$$

    PurifydatA$$ Member

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    Just like we hear every day in the NFL - football is now a business. To a lesser degree, so is college ball...when it's good, it is a cash cow for a school. When it’s bad, all those that contribute their $ and time want answers.

    Thus, the strategy that exists steadfastly in business/sales applies here:

    Manage the expectations of your clients.

    While there is a fine line there, and I agree with you Chilly that Hawkins can't just dog the team this year, he really needed to think about what he had to deliver if he was going to throw the "10 wins" comment out there.

    We fans and members of the media were not the ones that said WE expect 10 wins, Hawkins did - therefore it now becomes our expectation and the burden falls to him to back it up.

    Before the season even started, I was ok if we didn't win 10 games - I think most people knew that was unrealistic. Since we've been embarrassed twice and won ugly once, my problem with him has become that he hasn't done anything resembling someone who is control of his program.

    I don't need to reiterate everything that indicates he's “winning-challenged”, but simply put: he has taken no responsibility nor acknowledged that he is not delivering on the expectations that he himself placed in front of us. If he’s not even able to manage fans and media (clearly he’s getting a little tutoring from Bohn) and clearly can’t win, how could anyone still have faith that he’s the right guy for the job?
     
  30. buffalo30

    buffalo30 Active Member

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    I was all set with Hawkins in 2006 except I didn't like his hires for the coordinator positions. I was amazed at what happened with his first game. I let 2006 go. Some good things happened in 2007, but some reservations crept in. I wasn't
    happy in 2008 and the reservations about him increased. Helfrich,
    the player groupings, constant excuses, and his strange comments
    piled up.

    I was willing to give 2009 a try and then the first 2 games opened
    my eyes that he does not have what it takes. The offense is still
    sputtering. The offense looks like it always has, that is, completely designed around what Cody Hawkins can do rather than what the TEAM can do. Unfortunately the offense continues to demonstrate that the quarterback has not improved from 2007 even though it is designed around him. (none of that criticism is personal, by the way) Dan Hawkins eliminated competition for the quarterback position and lied about it. He lied about Darrell Scott's condition. We all found out the ridiculous player grouping concept has been his because the defense started using it on top of the offense. Who knows what his criteria are for players to show what he thinks is the proper attitude in practice to earn playing time?? His snide comments about a former player (Klatt) and supporters of the program who use the usual and customary communication network of the day. His snide comments to the media. It goes on and on until Bohn finally cuts the losses.
     

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