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Jon Embree vs Turner Gill

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Turner Gill inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

Jon Embree inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

Turner Gill went 3-9 his first season.

Jon Embree went 3-10 his first season.

Turner Gill went 2-10 his second season.

Jon Embree is 1-10 his second season.

Turner Gill's transitional recruiting class (2010) was ranked #55 on Rivals.

Jon Embree's transitional recruiting class (2011) was ranked #74 on Rivals.

Turner Gill's second full class (2011) was ranked #34 on Rivals.

Jon Embree's second full class (2012) was ranked #36 on Rivals.

Turner Gill's offense in his first season ranked #113 total / #111 scoring. His second year, that improved to #106 / #95.

Jon Embree's offense in his first season ranked #92 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

Turner Gill's defense in his first season ranked #98 total / #103 scoring. His second year, that fell to #120 / #120.

Jon Embree's defense in his first season ranked #102 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

(Statistical rankings based on the 120 NCAA FBS teams that count toward the rankings and does not include the 4 teams that just moved up to FBS.)

***************************

In the final analysis, Gill's performance at KU (a program with very little tradition) was slightly better than Embree's performance at CU (a program in the Top 25 nationally in all-time wins).

Considering KU's lower expectations for its football program, one would expect KU to be more patient than CU. But Gill's level of failure was so overwhelming that they simply had to move on after 2 years.

Also, let's look at the respective resumes before Gill and Embree landed these jobs.

Gill
1989: Nebraska (GA)
1990: North Texas (GA)
1991: SMU (WR)
1992-02: Nebraska (QB)
2003: Nebraska (Assistant HC / QB)
2004: Nebraska WR
2005: Green Bay Packers (Dir. Player Development)
2006-2009: Buffalo (HC)

Embree
1991: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)
1992: Douglas County HS (TE/WR)
1993-94: Colorado (TE)
1995-98: Colorado (DE)
1999-00: Colorado (TE)
2001-02: Colorado (WR/Kicking)
2003: UCLA (Assistant HC/ WR)
2004-05: UCLA (Assistant HC / TE/ Kicking)
2006-08: Kansas City Chiefs (TE)
2009: unemployed
2010: Washington Redskins (TE)

Resumes are very similar. Both had been Assistant Head Coaches. Embree had more NFL experience. Both were very successful position coaches. Gill had some success as a Head Coach building a Buffalo program to its first every bowl game and being considered for almost every job opening in the nation. Embree had never been a Head Coach.

Of the two, Gill's resume called for extra patience. It was in his 3rd year when he broke through at Buffalo. But things were so bad that he didn't get the chance. Rightfully so. That level of performance (win/loss, statistical analysis, recruiting) simply cannot be allowed to continue.

CU cannot possibly keep Embree a 3rd year.
 
Very interesting points, but I still think the changes wont be made until they are made in the AD.
 
Not only did we hire a guy that had no HC or coordinator experience, we hired a guy that wasn't even in the game in 09. If he was such a good position coach whats the deal with that?
 
The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

Embree:
3-10
1-10
??-??

McCartney:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10
7-5
6-6
7-4
8-4
11-1
11-1-1
8-3-1
9-2-1
8-3-1
11-1
 
The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

Embree:
3-10
1-10
??-??

McCartney:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10
7-5
6-6
7-4
8-4
11-1
11-1-1
8-3-1
9-2-1
8-3-1
11-1

Worst troll post ever, Fusker.
 
The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

Embree:
3-10
1-10
??-??

McCartney:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10
7-5
6-6
7-4
8-4
11-1
11-1-1
8-3-1
9-2-1
8-3-1
11-1

look at the schedules and the scores over those first few years, dummy.
 
No Mac comparisons, a completely different game in terms of coverage and recruiting these days. A few bad seasons back then is printed in a local newspaper. Today it's blasted everywhere for every recruit to see. This ship isn't turning around with Embree at the helm. New OC/DC needed and no quality coordinators will walk into this mess if Embree is still HC.

Fire Embree, clean house and bring some respectability back to Boulder with a good hire. I'm ok being patient if I actually see improvement. I see a team that has gone backwards since Week 1.

Great post Nik vs. Turner Gill. If we keep Embree he'll be gone mid-season next year after CSU, Central Arkansas and Fresno St losses.
 
Worst troll post ever, Fusker.

I disagree! Embree and McCartney are possibly on the same track.

Not saying Embree is a McCartney, but the guy is getting another year to show improvement. Like it or not, we are going to see how it plays out.

Like your write up comparing Embree to Gill. Lots of good points there. Great job!
 
Last edited:
The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

Embree:
3-10
1-10
??-??

McCartney:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10
7-5
6-6
7-4
8-4
11-1
11-1-1
8-3-1
9-2-1
8-3-1
11-1
McCartney was also a DC under one of the best HC's in the history of college football
 
I disagree! Embree and McCartney are possibly on the same track.

Not saying Embree is a McCartney, but the guy is getting another year to show improvement. Like it or not, we are going to see how it plays out.

Like your write up comparing Embree to Gill. Lot's of good points there. Great job!

Just admit when you are trolling. It is not hard.
 
If you'd followed Gill's tenure at KU closely, there were two strong anti-Gill forces at work. One, he brought in a socio-religious-political agenda that players frequently rebelled against. Gill has standards that even Mormons might wince at, much less the typical KU player, recruit or prospect. This injured his recruiting ability, and assistants would claim their hands were tied and they weren't allowed to pursue some athletes because of Gill's pre-set standards.

Two, Gill was an anti-KU alum. Not just the graduate from another program, but from hated Nebraska. And Gill's performance at Nebraska as a player was never kind to Kansas.

These were old wounds that Gill might not have survived even if he'd come in with winning seasons - and if he'd had that success, he'd had bailed as soon as the next better offer showed up because some claimed, Gill believed "anywhere would be better than KU."

So there were social forces that Gill stoked, created, enflamed or merely endured, all of which are fairly different than Embree's Favorite Son status at CU.
 
y6upamug.jpg
 
Yeah, Ron Prince was getting his legs kicked out from under him by every Bill Snyder visit at every event Prince attended. "Whatch doing now, Coach Bill? Gee - do you miss coaching?" Which was always said with a "We miss you coaching HERE" sentiment.
 
The comparison between Embree's win/loss record vs. McCartney's may be more telling. I suspect Buff fans may have to indulge in some patience for a year or two with Embree at the helm. Given a chance like McCartney had may work for Embree. ???????

Embree:
3-10
1-10
??-??

McCartney:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10
7-5
6-6
7-4
8-4
11-1
11-1-1
8-3-1
9-2-1
8-3-1
11-1
Give it up dude
 
Turner Gill inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

Jon Embree inherited a program that had gone 5-7 the previous season.

Turner Gill went 3-9 his first season.

Jon Embree went 3-10 his first season.

Turner Gill went 2-10 his second season.

Jon Embree is 1-10 his second season.

Turner Gill's transitional recruiting class (2010) was ranked #55 on Rivals.

Jon Embree's transitional recruiting class (2011) was ranked #74 on Rivals.

Turner Gill's second full class (2011) was ranked #34 on Rivals.

Jon Embree's second full class (2012) was ranked #36 on Rivals.

Turner Gill's offense in his first season ranked #113 total / #111 scoring. His second year, that improved to #106 / #95.

Jon Embree's offense in his first season ranked #92 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

Turner Gill's defense in his first season ranked #98 total / #103 scoring. His second year, that fell to #120 / #120.

Jon Embree's defense in his first season ranked #102 total / #109 scoring. His second year, that has fallen to #118 / #120.

(Statistical rankings based on the 120 NCAA FBS teams that count toward the rankings and does not include the 4 teams that just moved up to FBS.)

***************************

In the final analysis, Gill's performance at KU (a program with very little tradition) was slightly better than Embree's performance at CU (a program in the Top 25 nationally in all-time wins).

Considering KU's lower expectations for its football program, one would expect KU to be more patient than CU. But Gill's level of failure was so overwhelming that they simply had to move on after 2 years.

Also, let's look at the respective resumes before Gill and Embree landed these jobs.

Gill
1989: Nebraska (GA)
1990: North Texas (GA)
1991: SMU (WR)
1992-02: Nebraska (QB)
2003: Nebraska (Assistant HC / QB)
2004: Nebraska WR
2005: Green Bay Packers (Dir. Player Development)
2006-2009: Buffalo (HC)

Embree
1991: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)
1992: Douglas County HS (TE/WR)
1993-94: Colorado (TE)
1995-98: Colorado (DE)
1999-00: Colorado (TE)
2001-02: Colorado (WR/Kicking)
2003: UCLA (Assistant HC/ WR)
2004-05: UCLA (Assistant HC / TE/ Kicking)
2006-08: Kansas City Chiefs (TE)
2009: unemployed
2010: Washington Redskins (TE)

Resumes are very similar. Both had been Assistant Head Coaches. Embree had more NFL experience. Both were very successful position coaches. Gill had some success as a Head Coach building a Buffalo program to its first every bowl game and being considered for almost every job opening in the nation. Embree had never been a Head Coach.

Of the two, Gill's resume called for extra patience. It was in his 3rd year when he broke through at Buffalo. But things were so bad that he didn't get the chance. Rightfully so. That level of performance (win/loss, statistical analysis, recruiting) simply cannot be allowed to continue.

CU cannot possibly keep Embree a 3rd year.
WOW ! nice job ! pretty freak'n sad when you really start looking at it... we suk so bad
 
The saddest part of this thread.....

THIS RESUME!!!!!!!!!!! This is in no damn way the resume of a head football coach, anywhere! And especially not one heading into a new Conference after 5 bad years! Seeing it listed this way really shows us all why this guy is in so far over his head! This is sad.

Embree
1991: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)
1992: Douglas County HS (TE/WR)
1993-94: Colorado (TE)
1995-98: Colorado (DE)
1999-00: Colorado (TE)
2001-02: Colorado (WR/Kicking)
2003: UCLA (Assistant HC/ WR)
2004-05: UCLA (Assistant HC / TE/ Kicking)
2006-08: Kansas City Chiefs (TE)
2009: unemployed
2010: Washington Redskins (TE)
 
The "unemployed" in 2009 makes me laugh.

Me too and I just added this to my own resume....

NYbuffDIEHARD
2012: Colorado (Volunteer Coach)

I figure I know about as much as our staff after witnessing the same mistakes week in and week out. So I am now qualified to be a volunteer coach.
 
KU has very decent FB tradition, probably just a notch or two below CU's; but it is overwhelmed by the KU BB tradition! (hard NOT to have an almost sacred BB tradition when the guy who invented the game, coached there!)

KU also has wealthy, proud alums who are not mealy-mouthed cheapskates when it comes to opening their wallets for their FB program, in strong contrast with certain local types---you know who you are!
 
After looking and seeing that Embree was in charge of kicking at Colorado and UCLA, he should be canned after kicking anywhere near the best returner in NCAA history. Wittingham made that fact known. He had to be shaking his head the whole time. "Thanks CU for the bonehead play."
 
KU has very decent FB tradition, probably just a notch or two below CU's; but it is overwhelmed by the KU BB tradition! (hard NOT to have an almost sacred BB tradition when the guy who invented the game, coached there!)

KU also has wealthy, proud alums who are not mealy-mouthed cheapskates when it comes to opening their wallets for their FB program, in strong contrast with certain local types---you know who you are!

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
 
KU has very decent FB tradition, probably just a notch or two below CU's; but it is overwhelmed by the KU BB tradition! (hard NOT to have an almost sacred BB tradition when the guy who invented the game, coached there!)

KU also has wealthy, proud alums who are not mealy-mouthed cheapskates when it comes to opening their wallets for their FB program, in strong contrast with certain local types---you know who you are!

You are literally too stupid to insult
 
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