blue bloods, elites, and more

[BehindEnemyLines]

One of our "visitors" was scolding the board (and the Buffs) last week because of post-game comments. It was like
being chided by the Queen of England's long lost nanny.


But therein lies the crux -- who, really, are college basketball's Blue Bloods?


Here's a list just for perusing pleasure and the ensuing arguments. The category placements are the opinion of
the author. Number of championships are in parenthesis (), followed by the title year(s). Lists are in alphabetical
order.


blue bloods:
------------
These 6 schools hold 36 of the 75 ncaa championships. Additionally, they account for being on the losing end of a title game another 22 times. Wrap your brain around those #'s.


Duke ((4) 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010; all coach K // lost in 1964, 1978, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1999; 3 coaches including K)
Indiana ((5) 1940, 1953, 1976, 1981, 1987; 2 coaches // lost in 2002)
Kansas ((3) 1952, 1988, 2008; 3 coaches // lost in 1940, 1953, 1957, 1991, 2003, 2007)
Kentucky ((8) 1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978, 1996, 1998, 2012; 5 coaches // lost in 1966, 1975, 1997)
North Carolina ((5) 1957, 1982, 1993, 2005, 2009; 3 coaches // lost in 1946, 1968, 1977, 1981)
UCLA ((11) 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1995; 2 coaches // lost in 1980, 2006)


elites:
-------
Multiple titles with either multiple coaches or in different eras. And inclusion here is also based on
overall body of work or a prolific program for an extended period of time (jmho). This was the group that was
most difficult to qualify, and will probably be the most debatable.


Louisville ((3) 1980, 1986, 2013; 2 coaches) (good program for a long time)
Michigan State ((2) 1979, 2000; 2 coaches // lost in 1999) (Until today, I didn't realize that sparty had only seen the title game 3 times.)
UConn ((3) 1999, 2004, 2011; all Jim Calhoun) (overall body of work)

Border Guards:
--------------
Not quite elite status. May have been good for an extended period, but not much to show for it. This category may piss off some folks (trolls, etc.) but, oh well. Fun to think of meatchicken and blohio state as the Minnesota Vikings and Buffalo Bills of college basketball.


Arizona ((1) 1997 // lost in 2001) (danged good since the Eighties but pretty light in the hardward department)
Cincinnati ((2) 1961, 1962 // lost in 1963) (3 title games a long time ago; minor flurries since)
Florida ((2) 2006, 2007 // lost in 2000) (recent glory, past mizeries)
Georgetown ((1) 1984 // lost in 1943, 1982, 1985) (1 title and 3 other trips doesn't make you elite)
Michigan ((1) 1989 // lost in 1965, 1976, 1992, 1993, 2013) (1st runner-up in sooo many different decades ....)
NC State ((2) 1974, 1983; 2 coaches) (solid program mostly, but conference foes are better)
Ohio State ((1) 1960 // lost in 1939, 1961, 1962, 2007) (see meatchicken comments)
Oklahoma A&M (state)((2) 1945, 1946 // lost in 1949) (3 title games a long, long time ago)
Syracuse ((1) 2003 // lost in 1987, 1996) (another team I wudda sworn had more titles. Go figure)



Others with hardware:
--------------------
Pretty self-explanatory, with a couple of caveats.


Arkansas ((1) 1994 // lost in 1995)
Cal ((1) 1959 // lost in 1960)
CCNY ((1) 1950
Holy Cross ((1) 1947)
La Salle ((1) 1954 // lost in 1955)
Loyola Chicago ((1) 1963)
Marquette ((1) 1977 // lost in 1974)
Maryland ((1) 2002)
Oregon ((1) 1939)
San Fran ((2) 1955, 1956) (back-to-back titles when DBT was in grade school)
Stanford ((1) 1942)
Texas Western ((1) 1966)
Utah ((1) 1944 // lost in 1998)
Villanova ((1) 1985 // lost in 1971)
Wisconsin ((1) 1941)
Wyoming ((1) 1943)
UNLV ((1) 1990)


nc game losers without winning:
------------------------------
bailor (1948), Bradley (1950, 1954), Butler (2010, 2011), Dartmouth (1942, 1944), Dayton (1967),
Florida State (1972), Georgia Tech (2004), Houston (1983, 1984), Illinois (2005),
Indiana State (1979), Iowa (1956), Jacksonville (1970), Kansas State (1951), Memphis State (1973),
Memphis (2008), NYU (1945), Oklahoma (1947, 1988), Purdue (1969), Seattle (1958),
Seton Hall (1989), St Johns (1952), Washington State (1941), West Virginia (1959)

 

[buffaholic]

Good effort above. If you look at more recent times, I'd make the Elite list look like:

Louisville
Michigan State
Uconn (on notice with Calhoun retiring)
Arizona (has proven to me they are back)
Syracuse (they've been so close to that 2nd title)

To me, they belong in that 2nd group. Florida and tOSU knocking on that door recently, but not found a way thru it.

Disclaimer: I was born in CT (UCONN) and spent my teen years in AZ. I lived the Lute Olsen turnaround first hand and it looked a lot like the Tad Boyle turnaround. We got a ways to go though!

 

[Buffnik]

Good effort above. If you look at more recent times, I'd make the Elite list look like:

Louisville
Michigan State
Uconn (on notice with Calhoun retiring)
Arizona (has proven to me they are back)
Syracuse (they've been so close to that 2nd title)

To me, they belong in that 2nd group. Florida and tOSU knocking on that door recently, but not found a way thru it.

Disclaimer: I was born in CT (UCONN) and spent my teen years in AZ. I lived the Lute Olsen turnaround first hand and it looked a lot like the Tad Boyle turnaround. We got a ways to go though!

Not sure how you can leave Duke, UNC, Kansas, Ohio State, Florida and Kentucky out of the list of current elites. (Although I think Florida is a Billy Donovan thing and if he left he'd repeat that success anywhere while UF quickly fell to bubble program status.)

 

[cubuffs85]

One of our "visitors" was scolding the board (and the Buffs) last week because of post-game comments. It was like
being chided by the Queen of England's long lost nanny.


But therein lies the crux -- who, really, are college basketball's Blue Bloods?


Here's a list just for perusing pleasure and the ensuing arguments. The category placements are the opinion of
the author. Number of championships are in parenthesis (), followed by the title year(s). Lists are in alphabetical
order.


blue bloods:
------------
These 6 schools hold 36 of the 75 ncaa championships. Additionally, they account for being on the losing end of a title game another 22 times. Wrap your brain around those #'s.


Duke ((4) 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010; all coach K // lost in 1964, 1978, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1999; 3 coaches including K)
Indiana ((5) 1940, 1953, 1976, 1981, 1987; 2 coaches // lost in 2002)
Kansas ((3) 1952, 1988, 2008; 3 coaches // lost in 1940, 1953, 1957, 1991, 2003, 2007)
Kentucky ((8) 1948, 1949, 1951, 1958, 1978, 1996, 1998, 2012; 5 coaches // lost in 1966, 1975, 1997)
North Carolina ((5) 1957, 1982, 1993, 2005, 2009; 3 coaches // lost in 1946, 1968, 1977, 1981)
UCLA ((11) 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1995; 2 coaches // lost in 1980, 2006)


elites:
-------
Multiple titles with either multiple coaches or in different eras. And inclusion here is also based on
overall body of work or a prolific program for an extended period of time (jmho). This was the group that was
most difficult to qualify, and will probably be the most debatable.


Louisville ((3) 1980, 1986, 2013; 2 coaches) (good program for a long time)
Michigan State ((2) 1979, 2000; 2 coaches // lost in 1999) (Until today, I didn't realize that sparty had only seen the title game 3 times.)
UConn ((3) 1999, 2004, 2011; all Jim Calhoun) (overall body of work)

Border Guards:
--------------
Not quite elite status. May have been good for an extended period, but not much to show for it. This category may piss off some folks (trolls, etc.) but, oh well. Fun to think of meatchicken and blohio state as the Minnesota Vikings and Buffalo Bills of college basketball.


Arizona ((1) 1997 // lost in 2001) (danged good since the Eighties but pretty light in the hardward department)
Cincinnati ((2) 1961, 1962 // lost in 1963) (3 title games a long time ago; minor flurries since)
Florida ((2) 2006, 2007 // lost in 2000) (recent glory, past mizeries)
Georgetown ((1) 1984 // lost in 1943, 1982, 1985) (1 title and 3 other trips doesn't make you elite)
Michigan ((1) 1989 // lost in 1965, 1976, 1992, 1993, 2013) (1st runner-up in sooo many different decades ....)
NC State ((2) 1974, 1983; 2 coaches) (solid program mostly, but conference foes are better)
Ohio State ((1) 1960 // lost in 1939, 1961, 1962, 2007) (see meatchicken comments)
Oklahoma A&M (state)((2) 1945, 1946 // lost in 1949) (3 title games a long, long time ago)
Syracuse ((1) 2003 // lost in 1987, 1996) (another team I wudda sworn had more titles. Go figure)



Others with hardware:
--------------------
Pretty self-explanatory, with a couple of caveats.


Arkansas ((1) 1994 // lost in 1995)
Cal ((1) 1959 // lost in 1960)
CCNY ((1) 1950
Holy Cross ((1) 1947)
La Salle ((1) 1954 // lost in 1955)
Loyola Chicago ((1) 1963)
Marquette ((1) 1977 // lost in 1974)
Maryland ((1) 2002)
Oregon ((1) 1939)
San Fran ((2) 1955, 1956) (back-to-back titles when DBT was in grade school)
Stanford ((1) 1942)
Texas Western ((1) 1966)
Utah ((1) 1944 // lost in 1998)
Villanova ((1) 1985 // lost in 1971)
Wisconsin ((1) 1941)
Wyoming ((1) 1943)
UNLV ((1) 1990)


nc game losers without winning:
------------------------------
bailor (1948), Bradley (1950, 1954), Butler (2010, 2011), Dartmouth (1942, 1944), Dayton (1967),
Florida State (1972), Georgia Tech (2004), Houston (1983, 1984), Illinois (2005),
Indiana State (1979), Iowa (1956), Jacksonville (1970), Kansas State (1951), Memphis State (1973),
Memphis (2008), NYU (1945), Oklahoma (1947, 1988), Purdue (1969), Seattle (1958),
Seton Hall (1989), St Johns (1952), Washington State (1941), West Virginia (1959)

Like any other list, you'll have your share of disagreements. All-in-all, it's a pretty good list I'd say. Hard to disagree with your blue bloods, I think those are clearly the top six programs. Michigan State/Louisville are just a notch below. I probably would put UofA, Ohio State, Syracuse in that next group, along with UConn -- I know UConn has the hardware but they've always seemed to be in that next category and not being in a power conference now isn't going to help them along with Calhoun's retirement.

My biggest gripe is Maryland (and yes, I grew up a Terps fan in the 90s/2000s) being lumped into the same category as CCNY, La Salle, Loyola, San Francisco, Texas Western, and Wyoming. Even schools like Cal, Oregon, Stanford, UNLV, Wisconsin they are clearly ahead of IMO.

Maryland deserves to be atleast a border guard by your rankings. I'd say it's in the same category (or even better than) Cincy, Georgetown, Florida, NC State. Three legendary coaches, lots of tradition (Lefty started March Madness), routinely in the tournament in the 80s, 90s, early-to-mid 2000s aside from the dark days after Len Bias died/Bob Wade. Many deep runs in the tournament with Gary during a great ACC period. Sure the program has fallen off in recent years.

I do realize they have the same or even less amount of hardware as the above schools, but does anyone at this point considering San Francisco a more legendary program because of what they did 50+ years ago when Bill Russell was there. CCNY competes at the D3 level now.

One minor point, Memphis/Memphis State are the same school, sort of like if UTEP (Texas Western) were to win another title.

 

[cubuffs85]

Not sure how you can leave Duke, UNC, Kansas, Ohio State, Florida and Kentucky out of the list of current elites. (Although I think Florida is a Billy Donovan thing and if he left he'd repeat that success anywhere while UF quickly fell to bubble program status.)

Lon Kruger took them to the Final Four. I think Billy Donovan is a great coach, but I don't think they'd fall off as much as you do. Florida basketball won't ever be Florida football, but I think they can be the Texas of the Southeast so to speak in terms of their basketball brand.

 

[air-zona]

I couldn't care less if we are a blue blood. All I know is the future is looking dang bright right now. Also, we recruit just fine against these so called blue bloods.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Good effort above. If you look at more recent times, I'd make the Elite list look like:

Louisville
Michigan State
Uconn (on notice with Calhoun retiring)
Arizona (has proven to me they are back)
Syracuse (they've been so close to that 2nd title)

To me, they belong in that 2nd group. Florida and tOSU knocking on that door recently, but not found a way thru it.

Disclaimer: I was born in CT (UCONN) and spent my teen years in AZ. I lived the Lute Olsen turnaround first hand and it looked a lot like the Tad Boyle turnaround. We got a ways to go though!

As I said before, I was surprised that 'cuse had not been in more title games. You immediately think of bball when their name is mentioned.

 

[cubuffs85]

As I said before, I was surprised that 'cuse had not been in more title games. You immediately think of bball when their name is mentioned.

To be in the blue bloods I think you need many titles. But to be in the elites, in lieu of that, I think a consistently great team with lots of deep runs can make it without many titles.