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Baylor Rape HQ - (major lawsuit settled)

Gary Indiana said:
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...lack-institutional-control-notice-allegations

@Duff Man and the others that were telling me the MSU and Baylor cases had nothing to do with the NCAA. I'm glad the NCAA decided to finally show up for these victims.
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But typical for the NCAA they will come in late and do almost nothing. The penalties will be a slap on the wrist for institutional control and not address the real issues.

@Duff Man is correct in that the NCAA authority doesn't include criminal conduct like Baylor is guilty of.

The universities have deliberately limited the scope and authority of the NCAA. In time the result is going to be the government stepping in and then nobody will be happy.
 
MtnBuff said:
But typical for the NCAA they will come in late and do almost nothing. The penalties will be a slap on the wrist for institutional control and not address the real issues.

@Duff Man is correct in that the NCAA authority doesn't include criminal conduct like Baylor is guilty of.

The universities have deliberately limited the scope and authority of the NCAA. In time the result is going to be the government stepping in and then nobody will be happy.
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The article states directly in the first paragraph that the investigation was related to the university's handling of sexual assault allegations. So no, you and Duff are not correct.
 
Gary Indiana said:
The article states directly in the first paragraph that the investigation was related to the university's handling of sexual assault allegations. So no, you and Duff are not correct.
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I admit I did not expect this step to occur, but you might want to lower your expectations drastically. Baylor is not going to give in here because the blueprint is out there on how to fight it.
 
Duff Man said:
I admit I did not expect this step to occur, but you might want to lower your expectations drastically. Baylor is not going to give in here because the blueprint is out there on how to fight it.
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This is correct. Again the NCAA does not have authority over criminal matters. They will charge for lack of institutional control but Penn State and Miami have both beaten them up badly enough that any actions by the NCAA will essentially be token measures. Any disciplinary actions will consist of primarily the "steps" that Baylor has already taken. Fire the coach, not go to a bowl for 3 years, be below scholarship limits for a couple years.

It will all look good on paper but in reality not be much of significance.
 
Duff Man said:
I admit I did not expect this step to occur, but you might want to lower your expectations drastically. Baylor is not going to give in here because the blueprint is out there on how to fight it.
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I expect that Baylor will fight this to the bitter end. I am just encouraged that the NCAA is using their massive weight for more than penalizing student athletes for relatively harmless incidents.
 
Gary Indiana said:
I expect that Baylor will fight this to the bitter end. I am just encouraged that the NCAA is using their massive weight for more than penalizing student athletes for relatively harmless incidents.
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We will see how it plays out.

The NCAA enforcement staff is going to have its hands full pursuing this case.
 
MtnBuff said:
This is correct. Again the NCAA does not have authority over criminal matters. They will charge for lack of institutional control but Penn State and Miami have both beaten them up badly enough that any actions by the NCAA will essentially be token measures. Any disciplinary actions will consist of primarily the "steps" that Baylor has already taken. Fire the coach, not go to a bowl for 3 years, be below scholarship limits for a couple years.

It will all look good on paper but in reality not be much of significance.
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MTN, stop. No one is claiming that the NCAA can charge an institution with crimes, that is not what Duff and I were debating previously.
 
At worst this puts the behavior of these institutions in the news again, which is a very good thing. I am extremely disappointed that basically nothing happened to Penn State. I hope it is different for Baylor and MSU. To try to regain any credibility, the NCAA needs to make an example of these two.
 
Gary Indiana said:
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...lack-institutional-control-notice-allegations

@Duff Man and the others that were telling me the MSU and Baylor cases had nothing to do with the NCAA. I'm glad the NCAA decided to finally show up for these victims.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing: I have had the same opinion as Duff on this and I was probably the first to say it going back to the Penn State scandal that the NCAA was over-reaching its mandate. But that does not in any way mean that I like that situation. I hope that there is a way for the NCAA to punish programs for doing stuff like this. Nothing would make me happier than seeing the NCAA capable of punishing the hell out of programs for lack of institutional control when they foster a culture of violence against women or cover up abuses by athletes. I just don't think that it has the power to do so under the current bylaws.
 
Buffnik said:
Here's the thing: I have had the same opinion as Duff on this and I was probably the first to say it going back to the Penn State scandal that the NCAA was over-reaching its mandate. But that does not in any way mean that I like that situation. I hope that there is a way for the NCAA to punish programs for doing stuff like this. Nothing would make me happier than seeing the NCAA capable of punishing the hell out of programs for lack of institutional control when they foster a culture of violence against women or cover up abuses by athletes. I just don't think that it has the power to do so under the current bylaws.
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I guess we will find out.
 
please please please wreck baylor.. wouldn't mind Xavier newman available for 2 years available immediately haha
 
Gary Indiana said:
MTN, stop. No one is claiming that the NCAA can charge an institution with crimes, that is not what Duff and I were debating previously.
Click to expand...

The point is that if you are hoping for the NCAA to do anything of substance to Baylor in response to these events you are going to be disappointed. They will put some window dressing on it under the Institutional Control label but it will not be anything that really impacts them.

NCAA isn't interested in getting involved in these things after other schools have shown how toothless they really are.

Agree here with Nik. I don't like that the NCAA will in effect do very little, they don't have to tools to do more.

That is why as I have stated before I think that at some point somebody in congress is going to jump on these highly visible abuses as a means to make themselves famous.

The result will be legislation that using the authority of Title IX creates an office in the Department of Education (or Justice) that has investigative authority and can use federal funding including student loans, grants, research dollars, etc. as the hammer.
 
You know what the big thing an NCAA investigation might lead to? Them busting these schools for failing to cooperate or lying to them. That's usually what leads to the worst NCAA penalties anyway. For example, the USC penalties would have been a giant nothing burger if Petey hadn't demanded that everyone at USC stonewall the NCAA.
 
Seems clear that the lack of institutional control led directly to enhanced performance on the field. Athletes that engaged in actions that not only violated university and athletic department policies, but also criminal laws. Those matters were ignored, and actively covered up and mitigated by the athletic department in many cases, and players who would have been out of the school if not incarcerated were playing on Saturdays. If the NCAA doesn't have a litigator that can make that case they might as well fire all of their attorneys and hire a law firm to handle it. This case is different from Penn State bc it is actually players that are committing these crimes, and the university taking action to cover the crimes up so the players can continue to play. Not sure how the university could argue that having these guys on the field did not lead to a competitive advantage.

Also, maybe poll all the woman athletes who accepted scholarships there during the relevant period of time - "would you have accepted that athletic scholarship if you had know the athletic department was engaging in x behavior?" The answer would be "no" just about every time. Ergo, top level recruits, the recruits the university wanted, would not have come to the school but for the lack of institutional control = competitive advantage.
 
Bailer fined $2 million by the Big 12: http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...fines-baylor-2-million-sexual-assault-scandal

The Big 12 board announced Tuesday that it was fining Baylor University $2 million for "reputational damage to the conference and its members" stemming from a sexual assault scandal two years ago.
The league, however, also announced that its third-party verification review showed Baylor had implemented the 105 recommendations from the Pepper Hamilton law firm, putting the university back on track to receive full distribution from the league moving forward.
The Big 12 had been withholding 25 percent of Baylor's revenue distribution, pending compliance with Pepper Hamilton.
To date, that has totaled almost $14.3 million. After reimbursing the Big 12's legal costs, the remaining $12.6 million will be invested by the league for the next four years. Afterward, the principle would be returned to Baylor, minus the $2 million. Any interest earned on the investment would be annually distributed to the league's 10 members, and used for funding to combat sexual harassment and violence on campus.
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Really is just a slap on the wrist for bailer and a slap in the face for the victims, in my opinion.
 
Baylor owns that local judicial system. How is this non-sentence even possible?
 
Buffnik said:
Baylor owns that local judicial system. How is this non-sentence even possible?
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No worries. I'm sure the good Christian citizens of Waco will get rid of this judge and DA at the earliest possible moment . . . just like what happened in Palo Alto with those liberal heathens.
 
BuffsNYC said:
No worries. I'm sure the good Christian citizens of Waco will get rid of this judge and DA at the earliest possible moment . . . just like what happened in Palo Alto with those liberal heathens.
Click to expand...

Don't even want to look. Wouldn't surprise me if the Judge is a Baylor grad and prosecutor was in the same frat, and went to school with this parasites father. That is how things work in Baylorland.

If somehow they did get rid of the Judge and the DA they would simply be replaced with more Baylor trash (sorry, grads) in the same positions.

What continues to shock me is the willingness of parents to send their daughters to school there with the culture that exist on that campus.
 
silver&gold said:
Here's a good story about the Southern Baptist church sorta checking back in... F me
Click to expand...

The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, came into being in 1845 as the church of Southern slaveholders.
Now, 173 years later, Southern Baptist leaders are not just acknowledging their dark history; they are documenting it, as if by telling the story in wrenching detail, they may finally be freed of its taint.
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the denomination's flagship institution, this week released a 71-page report on the role that racism and support for slavery played in its origin and growth.
"The founding fathers of this school — all four of them — were deeply involved in slavery and deeply complicit in the defense of slavery," writes school President R. Albert Mohler Jr., in a letter accompanying the report. "Many of their successors on this faculty, throughout the period of Reconstruction and well into the 20th century, advocated the inferiority of African-Americans and openly embraced the ideology of the Lost Cause of southern slavery."
Mohler, who has led the seminary since 1993, commissioned the history report, which was compiled by a committee of six current and former seminary faculty members, and he promised from the outset that it would be released to the public without editing.
NPR's terms of use and privacy policy.
"history" section of the current SBTS website does not disclose that its founders were slave owners and ardent defenders of the institution of slavery.
"One of the first things that will happen is that our institutional history will be revised," Mohler said.
What that might entail is not yet clear. There are no statues of the founders on the campus to remove, according to Mohler, although the seminary's undergraduate college is named after James P. Boyce, one of the four founders, and some buildings and student associations carry the names of other pro-slavery seminary leaders.
"Taking the names off in a sense is just an effort to hide," Mohler said. "This is our story. This is exactly who we are. Our responsibility is to serve God faithfully, both in what we retain and in what we reject from those who came before us."
The seminary today admits black students, and some Southern Baptist congregations are led by African-American ministers. The denomination these days is distinguished from other Baptist groupings by its heightened evangelical identity and by the theological and political conservatism of many of its leaders.
Notwithstanding the seminary's new openness about its pro-slavery past, the detailed chronology ends in 1964. "In the decades following the civil rights movement, the seminary continued to struggle with the legacy of slavery and racism," the report concludes, but without further elaboration.
"Making a statement about Confederate monuments might be a next step," says Alison Greene, a historian of U.S. religion at Emory University in Atlanta, "or taking a stand on questions of voting rights in the 21st century. That would be really significant."
Greene, who was raised as a Southern Baptist, found the seminary report lacking in its failure to acknowledge any consequence of the denomination's recent association with conservative politicians and the policies they have promoted.
"It papers over a generation of hand-in-glove cooperation with efforts to roll back every single social program that served African-Americans or promised to rectify, even in the smallest ways, the gross economic and social effects of enslavement and segregation and inequality on black communities," Greene says
 
silver&gold said:
The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, came into being in 1845 as the church of Southern slaveholders.
Now, 173 years later, Southern Baptist leaders are not just acknowledging their dark history; they are documenting it, as if by telling the story in wrenching detail, they may finally be freed of its taint.
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the denomination's flagship institution, this week released a 71-page report on the role that racism and support for slavery played in its origin and growth.
"The founding fathers of this school — all four of them — were deeply involved in slavery and deeply complicit in the defense of slavery," writes school President R. Albert Mohler Jr., in a letter accompanying the report. "Many of their successors on this faculty, throughout the period of Reconstruction and well into the 20th century, advocated the inferiority of African-Americans and openly embraced the ideology of the Lost Cause of southern slavery."
Mohler, who has led the seminary since 1993, commissioned the history report, which was compiled by a committee of six current and former seminary faculty members, and he promised from the outset that it would be released to the public without editing.
NPR's terms of use and privacy policy.
"history" section of the current SBTS website does not disclose that its founders were slave owners and ardent defenders of the institution of slavery.
"One of the first things that will happen is that our institutional history will be revised," Mohler said.
What that might entail is not yet clear. There are no statues of the founders on the campus to remove, according to Mohler, although the seminary's undergraduate college is named after James P. Boyce, one of the four founders, and some buildings and student associations carry the names of other pro-slavery seminary leaders.
"Taking the names off in a sense is just an effort to hide," Mohler said. "This is our story. This is exactly who we are. Our responsibility is to serve God faithfully, both in what we retain and in what we reject from those who came before us."
The seminary today admits black students, and some Southern Baptist congregations are led by African-American ministers. The denomination these days is distinguished from other Baptist groupings by its heightened evangelical identity and by the theological and political conservatism of many of its leaders.
Notwithstanding the seminary's new openness about its pro-slavery past, the detailed chronology ends in 1964. "In the decades following the civil rights movement, the seminary continued to struggle with the legacy of slavery and racism," the report concludes, but without further elaboration.
"Making a statement about Confederate monuments might be a next step," says Alison Greene, a historian of U.S. religion at Emory University in Atlanta, "or taking a stand on questions of voting rights in the 21st century. That would be really significant."
Greene, who was raised as a Southern Baptist, found the seminary report lacking in its failure to acknowledge any consequence of the denomination's recent association with conservative politicians and the policies they have promoted.
"It papers over a generation of hand-in-glove cooperation with efforts to roll back every single social program that served African-Americans or promised to rectify, even in the smallest ways, the gross economic and social effects of enslavement and segregation and inequality on black communities," Greene says
Click to expand...
I guess it's a positive step.
 
Buffnik said:
I guess it's a positive step.
Click to expand...
Not to take this too far away from a “**** bailer” theme, I know that the Lutheran Church has struggled mightily with its founders deep anti-Semitic proclivities. Hitler considered himself a Lutheran. It’s a stain on the church they don’t advertise, but don’t deny, either. It’s probably a big reason why the Lutheran Church is so involved with immigrant advocacy these days. Point being, most churches have a dark past they have to face and deal with in a positive manner. I give the Southern Baptist Church credit for owning their history and not attempting to bury it.
 
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