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All the Deer, Elk, Moose, Doves, Quail, Ducks, Geese and any other critters...
- Thread starter lvbuff
- Start date
Some people prefer killing what they eat, while others prefer eating what other people have killed. Why do you have an issue with that?
lvbuff
Well-Known Member
i dont kill creatures like that...I was suggesting that there are a lot of bubbas out there who do.
Also important to note that the state only issues a certain amount of licenses to maintain healthy herds. Lack of human weekend entertainment will have no bearing on amount of animals taken. I unfortunately didn’t draw this year 
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Because there is a slight psychopathy to finding pleasure in a hobby where the ultimate goal is killing something that is going about its day and would continue to live if that hunter didn't decide to shoot it. It can be rationalized into something else, but you're still taking its life unnecessarily because you want to for fun. I can't wrap my head around feeling joy or satisfaction from shooting a creature rather than sadness and remorse.
Sometimes people say hunters respect the animals and always want a quick kill. Even if they're dumber than humans, they still maintain relationships and have fear and pain. If an advanced alien species hunted me for meat and respected my feelings I wouldn't feel any better about the end result.
Farming has given us all we need and those animals only exist for that ultimate purpose. We should treat them humanely until they end up as meat, but I don't think anyone considers slaughter a pet pleasure (actually I'm sure some sickos do.)
As for maintaining numbers, nature does that (along with cars.) It's funny how we never discuss maintaining certain numbers for our human herd.
Honestly, I know there are plenty of hunters out there and those who don't do it usually just don't get involved in the discussion. I don't want to hold an sisyphean argument but feel to need to share my thoughts rather than suppress my sentiment. I care for animals, so I'll never understand it and I've given up pretending I'll change any minds.
Agriculture is far more inhumane than hunting. It's not even close. Animals are literally tortured for most of their shortened existences, and then served to you for dinner.
I no longer eat meat, but as a matter of conscience, I would choose responsibly hunted game over factory meat every time.
I respect your opinion. Killing an animal isn’t “fun” to me, but it is deeply emotional and rewarding. You mention nature limits controls the amount of animals. I believe we as human beings are part of the natural ecosystem, not separate from it. We are the ultimate predator and it is imperative that we take that responsibility seriously and do not harvest too many animals or too few. Wolves, for example, do not have the ability to know how many prey animals are in a given area, so they will kill what they can when they can. You make a good point about maintaining human numbers. As you point out, effective farming has allowed human population to grow unchecked. It has also allowed people like me the privilege of being able to hunt for my own food. There are far too many humans for native animals to be a stable food source for everyone and I am a big champion of responsible, humane farming practices.
As far as killing an animal for meat goes, it’s a very emotional experience. Sadness and respect are central parts of the process. I work very hard year round to make sure I put myself in a position to make a good, clean kill. The animal is unwillingly giving its body to feed my family for the entire year and I owe it every possible respect. I kill the animal myself, quarter it myself, transport it myself (I use a horse for help), butcher it myself, and cook it myself. This process gives me a very close connection to my food in particular and nature in general.
I’m not a religious person, but this process is very spiritual to me. I understand that there are idiot hunters out there that make the whole activity look so callous and brutal, but that’s not the majority of back country hunters in my experience.
If you're going to hold such strong feelings on this subject, you should at the very least educate yourself with the basic facts.
I agree with most of this, but am curious how you define torture.
I used to hunt small game where I grew up but don't really enjoy the process of hunting, at least the killing and cleaning part. I would rather go and just enjoy the time with friends/family.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do so in an appropriate manner. Hunters spend more money on conservation than almost anything else combined. However, I still haven't found a good reason for bow hunting and I've seen plenty of examples that just don't justify it. Most my friends and people I know work very hard at trying to make a clean kill while bow hunting, but it rarely happens. I understand the challenge and skill involved with bow hunting. Most want that challenge that bow hunting gives you but I can't understand wanting to spend a massive amount of time looking for that animal while it slowly dies.
I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do so in an appropriate manner. Hunters spend more money on conservation than almost anything else combined. However, I still haven't found a good reason for bow hunting and I've seen plenty of examples that just don't justify it. Most my friends and people I know work very hard at trying to make a clean kill while bow hunting, but it rarely happens. I understand the challenge and skill involved with bow hunting. Most want that challenge that bow hunting gives you but I can't understand wanting to spend a massive amount of time looking for that animal while it slowly dies.
BUFFS14
Well-Known Member
Hunting is always full on. If you drive by camps, there is always a radio on. We usually listen to the games, sometimes drive into town to watch it in a bar. Depends on time of game. If this fall football goes forward, I get lucky, elk season is before the start of football, and my deer season falls during a bye week.
This is also something that most people refuse to consider or don't believe is a big deal. Hunters/fishermen subsidize a lot of the general public's ability to camp, hike, and do other recreation activities. Conservation is a hugely important aspect that non hunters/fishermen don't take into consideration.
Animals that are confined to spaces barely larger than them for their entire lives. Animals that are fed to carry weight in excess of what their frames can handle. Animals (poultry) that never see sunlight, and live in stacked cages with wires for floors. There is a reason that the vast majority of us have never seen factory chicken farming. Those places are locked down like death camps.
And there is the really rough stuff. Have you ever heard that they rip pigs tails off with pliers so that other pigs won't chew on them. (It needs to be painful enough that the pig will fight when it happens.) There are lots of stories like this when you dig into the practices of Big Ag.
Recommended reading: Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran Foer, or The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.
Not to mention what we unnecessarily do to animals in order to produce different kinds of meat like Veal.
BUFFS14
Well-Known Member
Archery is just like any other kind of hunting when done properly. I hunted archery for years (10+) and you can count on 1 hand the numbers of animals I have killed. It takes a lot of practice, and you must know your limits. I knew mine and I would never shoot outside my limits. I am not going to just fling and arrow and see what happens. Unfortunately, not all hunters are like that. I quit hunting with a group because of that very reason. I passed on some very nice animals, because if I cant put them down with 1 shot, I am not going to take it. On top of that, packing out an animal is a lot of work, basically I don't want to work any more than I have too.
Rife is the same thing, you must know your limits and don't shoot if it's outside your limits. We have decided to go black powder this year for elk. I bought a rife and have been shooting it for almost a year.(Been out 20+ times) I know my limits the rifles limits and I know what I am comfortable in shooting.
Yes, unfortunately not all hunters are the same.
Chicken “factories” are gross, I agree. It’s part of the reason I decided to raise my own free-range chickens.
I have never heard of anything like the pigtail example you give, and while I don’t doubt that it could happen, I doubt it’s at all common. Stressing an animal out obviously isn’t good from an ethical standpoint, but not from a financial one, either. I have friends who worked at Tyson g farms and I’m sure they’d have mentioned something crazy like that.
What I know is cattle. I grew up ranching and still know lots of ranchers - cattle probably have the best lives of the bunch. Feedlot cattle are crowded, and don’t have the life they enjoyed as calves, but they are cared for better than most would likely guess. I suppose it’s the way cattle have to be raised, but cattlemen are generally a very different bunch than pig and chicken folk. Not to mention sheep ****ers.
Regardless, I respect your decision to avoid meat. Part of the reason I hunt is to remind myself that every time I eat meat, it came from another living creature. A well placed arrow is a quick death, but most are safe when I’m hunting; it’s more about the time in nature and the chase. If I don’t have an ideal shot, I don’t take it.
lvbuff
Well-Known Member
Read The Jungle
Of course. I tried to go with more modern works, since people think that The Jungle somehow changed things.
I agree 99% of it is horrific, in particular poultry and pig farms. I have posted about ways to find meat that has been vetted to have a more humane life up to its death. That hasn't been a priority for our society, and as people have said people mostly live thinking ignorance is bliss. I appreciate the direct nature of hunters to take on their kill. It is certainly more authentic than those who prefer to think of a chicken breast as an objet simply grown that way like a fruit. Is the argument that hunting is less ****ty than eating Tyson chicken so that makes it good? Like, it's the lesser of two evils?
@HudsonBuff wrote a very nice post, and I appreciate that. I respect your process more than the average meat-eater. (Although I'd say we as humans have blown up the ecosystem and are trying to overcontrol it for our own convenience.) I wish more hunters felt a similar sentiment as him, but most of people I know just like to do it for fun and to show off their kills. Perhaps not overtly, but it's a hobby, something to get excited for, something to fill the time when you're not at work. Seemingly because they don't have better ways to fill their free time. They start going to the gun range, but that gets boring, so why not actually use the bullet in a productive way.
I'd guess that the majority of you grew up around it and that it has a nostalgic impression on you. There is a bit of a conditioning going on, because kids don't tend to want to kill things, so we ritualize and rationalize the process to give it a meaning. I see deer on my property and think it is just a cool animal living in nature that I have no desire to prevent it from continuing to do so, even to eat it. Like I said, I wouldn't give a **** if an alien felt pained and more connected to me if they decided to hunt me or my family for food. I'd rather just go on living my life, however simple and uninteresting they might consider it.
Hunting is such a huge industry. There are so many great things to do with our time, to me it's too bad people don't find different outlets in nature than killing things. As for archery, I appreciate that it seems more "fair" than using a gun (which feel like a human cheat-code.) The common amount of extra suffering mentioned flips that on its head though. A quick death is the only way killing animals for food can be ethical.
As for the funding of conservation and public land, that is just an extra device to feel good about what's going on. That funding could and should come from anywhere to help protect nature for the sake of protecting nature.
Anyway, I know most of you hunters aren't evil human beings, but I still want to suggest finding new hobbies.
How many actual hunters do you personally know? I know a lot of them and they all feel the weight of what they are doing. Taking a life is not a small thing and they take it very seriously. Sure, they'll take a picture with the deer they just shot but none of them hunt for vanity. They hunt for food and to go drink a **** ton and then sleep all day in the tree stand.
Trophy hunters can lick my taint, but I'm talking about those who hunt for food to eat.
So obviously trophy hunting is a different story and I have zero desire to participate in it, however, there are shades of grey there as well. Again, it goes back to conservation and the funding that actually helps keep rule and regulation enforcement in place in areas like Africa. Most of the time, the meat from trophy hunting there is given to local tribes, and the money that comes from someone paying $50k to do something like that goes to help stop poaching and preserve those areas.How many actual hunters do you personally know? I know a lot of them and they all feel the weight of what they are doing. Taking a life is not a small thing and they take it very seriously. Sure, they'll take a picture with the deer they just shot but none of them hunt for vanity. They hunt for food and to go drink a **** ton and then sleep all day in the tree stand.
Trophy hunters can lick my taint, but I'm talking about those who hunt for food to eat.
Obviously, it’d be nice if there were other major forms of revenue that could be generated to help stop poaching and preserve the population of some of those more exotic animals, but there just isn’t. So while most people find it disgusting, how much more disgusting would it be if elephants and other African animals were being illegally slaughtered by the thousands because there wasn’t funding or regulations to help protect them? It’s very easy to say “there should just be money that could come from anywhere”, it’s just not that easy.
Also, right or wrong, the spread of the human species into wildlife habitats have completely changed the dynamics of natural population control. There are so many layers to this discussion, and people need to educate themselves on everything that goes into before simply calling hunters “psychopathic” or “bubba”.
Yeah, I get the conservation argument for trophy hunting, but I still don't like it. They are killing just to kill. And people that pay for that kind of thing are usually huge douches in my experience. Like Donald Trump Jr.
Yes, I completely agree, but I try to be consistent and at least understand that there are positive things that come from something that I think is ****ty and would never do myself.
Just to be clear, I am not, not have I ever been, a hunter.I agree 99% of it is horrific, in particular poultry and pig farms. I have posted about ways to find meat that has been vetted to have a more humane life up to its death. That hasn't been a priority for our society, and as people have said people mostly live thinking ignorance is bliss. I appreciate the direct nature of hunters to take on their kill. It is certainly more authentic than those who prefer to think of a chicken breast as an objet simply grown that way like a fruit. Is the argument that hunting is less ****ty than eating Tyson chicken so that makes it good? Like, it's the lesser of two evils?
@HudsonBuff wrote a very nice post, and I appreciate that. I respect your process more than the average meat-eater. (Although I'd say we as humans have blown up the ecosystem and are trying to overcontrol it for our own convenience.) I wish more hunters felt a similar sentiment as him, but most of people I know just like to do it for fun and to show off their kills. Perhaps not overtly, but it's a hobby, something to get excited for, something to fill the time when you're not at work. Seemingly because they don't have better ways to fill their free time. They start going to the gun range, but that gets boring, so why not actually use the bullet in a productive way.
I'd guess that the majority of you grew up around it and that it has a nostalgic impression on you. There is a bit of a conditioning going on, because kids don't tend to want to kill things, so we ritualize and rationalize the process to give it a meaning. I see deer on my property and think it is just a cool animal living in nature that I have no desire to prevent it from continuing to do so, even to eat it. Like I said, I wouldn't give a **** if an alien felt pained and more connected to me if they decided to hunt me or my family for food. I'd rather just go on living my life, however simple and uninteresting they might consider it.
Hunting is such a huge industry. There are so many great things to do with our time, to me it's too bad people don't find different outlets in nature than killing things. As for archery, I appreciate that it seems more "fair" than using a gun (which feel like a human cheat-code.) The common amount of extra suffering mentioned flips that on its head though. A quick death is the only way killing animals for food can be ethical.
As for the funding of conservation and public land, that is just an extra device to feel good about what's going on. That funding could and should come from anywhere to help protect nature for the sake of protecting nature.
Anyway, I know most of you hunters aren't evil human beings, but I still want to suggest finding new hobbies.
Sorry, I'm trying to understand where you're going with this. Are you a vegan/vegetarian? I was under the impression you were not, which is where my confusion is coming from.I agree 99% of it is horrific, in particular poultry and pig farms. I have posted about ways to find meat that has been vetted to have a more humane life up to its death. That hasn't been a priority for our society, and as people have said people mostly live thinking ignorance is bliss. I appreciate the direct nature of hunters to take on their kill. It is certainly more authentic than those who prefer to think of a chicken breast as an objet simply grown that way like a fruit. Is the argument that hunting is less ****ty than eating Tyson chicken so that makes it good? Like, it's the lesser of two evils?
@HudsonBuff wrote a very nice post, and I appreciate that. I respect your process more than the average meat-eater. (Although I'd say we as humans have blown up the ecosystem and are trying to overcontrol it for our own convenience.) I wish more hunters felt a similar sentiment as him, but most of people I know just like to do it for fun and to show off their kills. Perhaps not overtly, but it's a hobby, something to get excited for, something to fill the time when you're not at work. Seemingly because they don't have better ways to fill their free time. They start going to the gun range, but that gets boring, so why not actually use the bullet in a productive way.
I'd guess that the majority of you grew up around it and that it has a nostalgic impression on you. There is a bit of a conditioning going on, because kids don't tend to want to kill things, so we ritualize and rationalize the process to give it a meaning. I see deer on my property and think it is just a cool animal living in nature that I have no desire to prevent it from continuing to do so, even to eat it. Like I said, I wouldn't give a **** if an alien felt pained and more connected to me if they decided to hunt me or my family for food. I'd rather just go on living my life, however simple and uninteresting they might consider it.
Hunting is such a huge industry. There are so many great things to do with our time, to me it's too bad people don't find different outlets in nature than killing things. As for archery, I appreciate that it seems more "fair" than using a gun (which feel like a human cheat-code.) The common amount of extra suffering mentioned flips that on its head though. A quick death is the only way killing animals for food can be ethical.
As for the funding of conservation and public land, that is just an extra device to feel good about what's going on. That funding could and should come from anywhere to help protect nature for the sake of protecting nature.
Anyway, I know most of you hunters aren't evil human beings, but I still want to suggest finding new hobbies.