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Apparently the sky is falling

boydbuff said:
The doom and gloom from ABers at this stage is kind of depressing. We are on our 3rd coaching staff in a handful of years and coming off our worst season in school history. I get that.

But we got a damn good coach who has been trained by some of the best in the biz. When we hired him noone thought he was going to turn us into a top 25 team this year, and almost everyone seemed resigned to the fact we would not likely get many 4 and 5* right away.

Why can't you guys show just a little bit of patience and a little faith in HCMM & Co? Can't we wait to crap on the parade after we finish out the class and finish out our first season?

If HCMM & Crew's experience at SJSU is any indication, it is reasonable to expect a 3 year turnaround to bowl contention and hovering around as a top 25 program. How many of us would honestly be disappointed with that outcome?

There is a correlation between wins on the field and quality of recruiting class-and vice versa of course.

So let's let HCMM prove on the field in the Fall what he and his staff are capable of doing in terms of having the team better prepared, making better game day decisions, better game planning in light of the talent we do have, etc.

I for one am on the HCMM bandwagon as long as we see progress on and off the field. We are already seeing progress in terms of the # of offers our commits have compared to the Embree years, we have seen progress in terms of Wood's night and day transition under HCMM and Lindgren, we are hearing that the staff is building bridges again to the in-state schools.

Go BUFFs!
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IMO, everyone that posts here is behind MM all the way. And years of downward a spiral has tested everyone's patience to the max. We will have no idea just how full the glass really is until the season is over. So the only direction to go from here is up. Nothing wrong with having high expectations. If he does better this year than most of the expectations, then MM will be saluted and the monkey will be off of their back. If not, then it will continue to be a slower accent with no surprises. I have endured the same amount of pain as every other Buff alum & fan has and if I have to suck it up for a few more years before the corner is turned, then so be it. Right now, I don't have enough words to describe how bad DiStiff has been for the FB program. My blood boils at the thought of any involvement he has with CU athletics. OK, I'm done sugar coating it, now let me tell you how I really feel.
 
There's no "falling" anywhere. It simply cannot get any worse than last season. Worst performance by a DI football team I've ever witnessed. Rock bottom was hit. It's just a question of whether the recovery takes CU to being a 3/4 win team or a 8/9 win team.
 
CVilleBuff said:
There's no "falling" anywhere. It simply cannot get any worse than last season. Worst performance by a DI football team I've ever witnessed. Rock bottom was hit. It's just a question of whether the recovery takes CU to being a 3/4 win team or a 8/9 win team.
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**** that. We have a great geology department. We can crush this bottom rock that we've hit!

:lol: :sad1:
 
it is such bs to say that we can't compete with power programs for recruits. bama sucked horribly before they hired saban. usc sucked horribly before they hired carroll. oklahoma sucked horribly before they hired stoops. even ELITE teams suffer and they recover by hiring great coaches, supporting them, and letting them recruit elite athletes.

and don't even try to compare the oregon ducks football program to Colorado. yes, they are enjoying success now (thanks to a great coach (who just left), along with a super-supportive uber-donor in knight, along with a willingness to cut corners when recruiting). we are historically MUCH better than oregon.

a few facts:

all time winning %:
Colorado #29
oregon #49

national championships:
Colorado 1
oregon 0

all-time conference winning %:
Colorado .570
oregon .488

bowl appearances:
Colorado 28 (12-16)
oregon 26 (11-15)

d1 total # of wins:
Colorado 675 (ranked #23 all time)
oregon 603 (not ranked in the top 40)

conference titles:
Colorado 26
oregon 10

heismans:
Colorado 1
oregon 0

consensus all-americans:
Colorado 30
oregon 5

you think this stuff is random? CU has EVERYTHING that money can't buy. we have advantages that oregon and similar schools could NEVER touch. but, we need to: 1. hire the right coaches. 2. support them with $$ and 3. let them do what needs to be done to compete.
 
boydbuff said:
There is a correlation between wins on the field and quality of recruiting class-and vice versa of course.
Click to expand...

So you apparently acknowledge this, then trash on the "doom and gloom" crowd by saying we're complaining for no reason? This is why we're not overly pleased. Bad recruiting almost always gets you bad teams. We saw this last year. Last year was a combination of bad talent and bad coaching. Hopefully we fixed the second part, but we're not currently fixing the first part. That's why I'm not overly impressed.

And nobody is saying the sky is falling, giving up on Mac, and especially not wanting him fired. We're simply saying, it's extremely unlikely we get to even the middle of the P12 with this kind of recruiting.
 
Totally agree Liver. CU has everything they need to be a power. They just need to make smart moves. What the hell do other Pac 12 schools have that we don't? CU has really strong academics, a great campus, solid facilities, beautiful scenery, solid home state prospects... there's not much of an innate disadvantage here. A smart rebuilding program could make CU great again. We're not doomed to perpetual mediocrity.
 
dply said:
**** that. We have a great geology department. We can crush this bottom rock that we've hit!

:lol: :sad1:
Click to expand...

The Fresno State game was A Journey to the Center of the Earth and then some. No way it can get worse than that! Impossible.
 
White_Rabbit said:
So you apparently acknowledge this, then trash on the "doom and gloom" crowd by saying we're complaining for no reason? This is why we're not overly pleased. Bad recruiting almost always gets you bad teams. We saw this last year. Last year was a combination of bad talent and bad coaching. Hopefully we fixed the second part, but we're not currently fixing the first part. That's why I'm not overly impressed.

And nobody is saying the sky is falling, giving up on Mac, and especially not wanting him fired. We're simply saying, it's extremely unlikely we get to even the middle of the P12 with this kind of recruiting.
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I happen to disagree with the negativity regarding some of our current commits. I am convinced, without having gone back to look at Embree's last class, that the start of our class is substantially better. We beat out AZ for a QB, most of our prospects have BCS offers. Connor had offers from Miami and Syracuse among others. Some of the guys on the board, who maybe I can't say b/c I saw the content on Rivals, have multiple BCS offers including from good Pac 12 schools but have said if they had to commit today they would commit to the Buffs.

I am saying the start of our class is respectable and better than under Embree at this stage of the recruiting class. We have offers out to many guys who have multiple BCS offers.

It reminds me of the knee jerk reaction many had about the whole Kronshage Twitter controversy when numerous ABers wanted to rescind his scholarship without even knowing the whole story. The whole story about HCMM's first class won't be told until February 2014. By then we will also have HCMM's first season under his belt.

That is when I feel it is appropriate to start to judge whether or not progress is being made-not after one spring and 6 commits to his first class.
 
boydbuff said:
I happen to disagree with the negativity regarding some of our current commits. I am convinced, without having gone back to look at Embree's last class, that the start of our class is substantially better. We beat out AZ for a QB, most of our prospects have BCS offers. Connor had offers from Miami and Syracuse among others. Some of the guys on the board, who maybe I can't say b/c I saw the content on Rivals, have multiple BCS offers including from good Pac 12 schools but have said if they had to commit today they would commit to the Buffs.

I am saying the start of our class is respectable and better than under Embree at this stage of the recruiting class. We have offers out to many guys who have multiple BCS offers.

It reminds me of the knee jerk reaction many had about the whole Kronshage Twitter controversy when numerous ABers wanted to rescind his scholarship without even knowing the whole story. The whole story about HCMM's first class won't be told until February 2014. By then we will also have HCMM's first season under his belt.

That is when I feel it is appropriate to start to judge whether or not progress is being made-not after one spring and 6 commits to his first class.
Click to expand...
This
 
boydbuff said:
I happen to disagree with the negativity regarding some of our current commits. I am convinced, without having gone back to look at Embree's last class, that the start of our class is substantially better. We beat out AZ for a QB, most of our prospects have BCS offers. Connor had offers from Miami and Syracuse among others. Some of the guys on the board, who maybe I can't say b/c I saw the content on Rivals, have multiple BCS offers including from good Pac 12 schools but have said if they had to commit today they would commit to the Buffs.

I am saying the start of our class is respectable and better than under Embree at this stage of the recruiting class. We have offers out to many guys who have multiple BCS offers.

It reminds me of the knee jerk reaction many had about the whole Kronshage Twitter controversy when numerous ABers wanted to rescind his scholarship without even knowing the whole story. The whole story about HCMM's first class won't be told until February 2014. By then we will also have HCMM's first season under his belt.

That is when I feel it is appropriate to start to judge whether or not progress is being made-not after one spring and 6 commits to his first class.
Click to expand...

AZ stopped calling Apsay a month before we even offered him. I like Apsay a lot, but lets not act like he was #1 on AZ's board or something. They throw offers out like crazy.

Connor was a hell of a get. Beating out Miami gives me hope for this staff. He's a part of the 2013 class, though. My concern lies in what the future brings (2014).

It's substantially better, but you haven't even looked into it? Well, how can I argue with that.

Who are we leading for that has good P12 offers? Alex Anderson and Evan White? I hope we get both of them. We'll see how that goes. I didn't think we'd be losing Zack Vaughan to freaking Houston a month ago, so many surprises await us.

We're not passing judgment. We're passing along our concerns. I highly doubt anyone in the doom and gloom camp is saying we're it's all over and we're screwed. We're saying it's not looking overly promising as it stands currently. Maybe we just shouldn't talk about recruiting at all until February 2014? Maybe all of the Debby downers can have their own forum so we can complain and feel better about ourselves.
 
"We should be out-recruiting Arizona and ASU because they have never hit bottom like we have."

My pea-brain is not even close to understanding the rationale behind this statement. As written I read this as saying we suck so much worse than anyone in the PAC12 that we should be having more success in recruiting? I blame my lapses on cumulative head impacts. What's your excuse?
 
Now lets compare this year vs last year

Last year at this time we had the following commits:

Kyle Trammel: 1 BCS offer - Arizona
Colin Sutton: 0 offers
Bryce Bobo: 1 non-BCS offer
Elijah Dunston: 4 non-BCS offers
George Frazier: 1 BCS offer, 2 non-BCS - Washington St
Gunnar Graham: 2 BCS offers, 3 non-BCS - Iowa St and Utah
Jonathan Huckins: 1 BCS offer - Iowa St
Sam Kronshage: 1 BCS offer, 3 non-BCS offers - Duke
Phillip Lindsay: 1 BCS offer - Utah
John Lisella: 2 non-BCS offers
Sefo Liufau: 0 offers

6 out of 11 commits had a BCS offer.

Compare that to this year:

Cade Apsay: 1 BCS offer - Arizona
Zach Brown: 3 non-BCS offers
Rick Gamboa: 2 non-BCS offers
Dylan Keeney: 6 non-BCS offers
Isaac Miller: 1 BCS offer, 3 non-BCS offers - Washington St
Grant Watanabe: 1 BCS offer - Utah
Chance Waz: 1 BCS offer, 3 non-BCS offers - Utah

4 out of 7 commits had a BCS offer.

So we have 6 out of 11 vs 4 out of 7. Both a little above 50%. Doesn't look substantially better to me.

At the end of the day, is that really our standard? Just be better than Embree's last season? I thought we'd at least be able to hope for somewhere in between that and the 2012 class.
 
White_Rabbit said:
We're not passing judgment. We're passing along our concerns. I highly doubt anyone in the doom and gloom camp is saying we're it's all over and we're screwed. We're saying it's not looking overly promising as it stands currently. Maybe we just shouldn't talk about recruiting at all until February 2014? Maybe all of the Debby downers can have their own forum so we can complain and feel better about ourselves.
Click to expand...
I hear you but I just don't share the opinion that the early results are bad or indicative that HCMM is not a good recruiter, or that there is no evidence whatsoever of improvement. Many ABers are saying that in so many words and I don't think it is true from the first 6 commits.

I haven't looked back to compare because I can't find a relatively quick way to see which recruits committed by July 1st on 2012. However I did review our 2012 class and based on their rivals rankings, of the 30 or so commits, 7 were 2* and 2 were not even ranked. That is more than 25% of our 2012 Embree class were not ranked above 2* (and I suspect, though I haven't checked that) those same 25% did not have any other BCS offers.

Our current class already looks better than that at this early stage so what is the freakin problem exactly? Who thought we'd be averaging 4* kids in our first class after recording one of the worst seasons in FBS history and clearly the worst in CU history?
 
White_Rabbit said:
Now lets compare this year vs last year
4 out of 7 commits had a BCS offer.

So we have 6 out of 11 vs 4 out of 7. Both a little above 50%. Doesn't look substantially better to me.

At the end of the day, is that really our standard? Just be better than Embree's last season? I thought we'd at least be able to hope for somewhere in between that and the 2012 class.
Click to expand...
Thanks for doing the research.
 
boydbuff said:
I hear you but I just don't share the opinion that the early results are bad or indicative that HCMM is not a good recruiter, or that there is no evidence whatsoever of improvement. Many ABers are saying that in so many words and I don't think it is true from the first 6 commits.

I haven't looked back to compare because I can't find a relatively quick way to see which recruits committed by July 1st on 2012. However I did review our 2012 class and based on their rivals rankings, of the 30 or so commits, 7 were 2* and 2 were not even ranked. That is more than 25% of our 2012 Embree class were not ranked above 2* (and I suspect, though I haven't checked that) those same 25% did not have any other BCS offers.

Our current class already looks better than that at this early stage so what is the freakin problem exactly? Who thought we'd be averaging 4* kids in our first class after recording one of the worst seasons in FBS history and clearly the worst in CU history?
Click to expand...

White Rabbit just did all that work for you in his post above. Does this class still look better to you so far?
 
Boyd, I agree with you for the most part, but people aren't expecting 4*'s in this class. I see where others are coming from but when looking at the players MM and his staff developed at SJSU and then the small sample size with Gilliam and Reed give me a lot of confidence in their ability to evaluate and find prospects that play above their ranking and offer lists.
 
Wyo Buff said:
"We should be out-recruiting Arizona and ASU because they have never hit bottom like we have."

My pea-brain is not even close to understanding the rationale behind this statement. As written I read this as saying we suck so much worse than anyone in the PAC12 that we should be having more success in recruiting? I blame my lapses on cumulative head impacts. What's your excuse?
Click to expand...

I don't know how to use the sarcasm font, but I thought even those in WY would get that!
 
boydbuff said:
The doom and gloom from ABers at this stage is kind of depressing. We are on our 3rd coaching staff in a handful of years and coming off our worst season in school history. I get that.

But we got a damn good coach who has been trained by some of the best in the biz. When we hired him noone thought he was going to turn us into a top 25 team this year, and almost everyone seemed resigned to the fact we would not likely get many 4 and 5* right away.

Why can't you guys show just a little bit of patience and a little faith in HCMM & Co? Can't we wait to crap on the parade after we finish out the class and finish out our first season?

If HCMM & Crew's experience at SJSU is any indication, it is reasonable to expect a 3 year turnaround to bowl contention and hovering around as a top 25 program. How many of us would honestly be disappointed with that outcome?

There is a correlation between wins on the field and quality of recruiting class-and vice versa of course.

So let's let HCMM prove on the field in the Fall what he and his staff are capable of doing in terms of having the team better prepared, making better game day decisions, better game planning in light of the talent we do have, etc.

I for one am on the HCMM bandwagon as long as we see progress on and off the field. We are already seeing progress in terms of the # of offers our commits have compared to the Embree years, we have seen progress in terms of Wood's night and day transition under HCMM and Lindgren, we are hearing that the staff is building bridges again to the in-state schools.

Go BUFFs!
Click to expand...


These are message boards where fans express their opinions. You seem to think they are not entitled when they do not align with your opinions. I have been a CU Buff for over 50 years - so you do the math - I don't have a lot of time for patience. Go be depressed if you cannot take opposing points of view - I for one am tired of the sunshine pumpers.
 
BlackNGold said:
These are message boards where fans express their opinions. You seem to think they are not entitled when they do not align with your opinions. I have been a CU Buff for over 50 years - so you do the math - I don't have a lot of time for patience. Go be depressed if you cannot take opposing points of view - I for one am tired of the sunshine pumpers.
Click to expand...
A little irony here
 
BlackNGold said:
These are message boards where fans express their opinions. You seem to think they are not entitled when they do not align with your opinions. I have been a CU Buff for over 50 years - so you do the math - I don't have a lot of time for patience. Go be depressed if you cannot take opposing points of view - I for one am tired of the sunshine pumpers.
Click to expand...
I just have a question and I'm in vacation mode so bear with me. What if Mac actually knows what the hell he is doing even if it takes 2 to 3 years? Just wondered.
 
BuffLuKe said:
I just have a question and I'm in vacation mode so bear with me. What if Mac actually knows what the hell he is doing even if it takes 2 to 3 years? Just wondered.
Click to expand...
+1

Just as all the negative ABers have a right to express their pessimism about progress on AB, I and others who have a different outlook, have the same right to express optimism that progress is already being made and to openly disagree with the negativity from others on here. You are all free to start as many threads as you want that explain why you feel the sky is actually falling, why HCMM is already failing, why CU will never have a successful football program, why our administration can not possibly support a winning program, why we will never have good facilities...

I know we have all been through the crapper the past several years (and I too have been a fan for a long time-in my case about 25 yrs so not as long as some old-timers). But we need some positivity around the program, we need to get behind HCMM and his crew, we need to get behind his recruits, unless or until they demonstrate they are not able to make real progress on the field.

That at least is how my "sunshine pumping" personality sees it.
 
boydbuff said:
+1

Just as all the negative ABers have a right to express their pessimism about progress on AB, I and others who have a different outlook, have the same right to express optimism that progress is already being made and to openly disagree with the negativity from others on here. You are all free to start as many threads as you want that explain why you feel the sky is actually falling, why HCMM is already failing, why CU will never have a successful football program, why our administration can not possibly support a winning program, why we will never have good facilities...

I know we have all been through the crapper the past several years (and I too have been a fan for a long time-in my case about 25 yrs so not as long as some old-timers). But we need some positivity around the program, we need to get behind HCMM and his crew, we need to get behind his recruits, unless or until they demonstrate they are not able to make real progress on the field.

That at least is how my "sunshine pumping" personality sees it.
Click to expand...

Boyd, I would caution you to be careful about casting people who are criticizing certain aspects of the program or AD as not supporting the program or being behind Mac - these are not mutually exclusive positions. I suspect most of these "negative ABers" have supported this program for a long time. They are alums, donors, season ticket holders, and they buy the $35 t-shirts.

Criticism is a hell of a lot better than apathy - it's good when people still give a damn after a decade of suck.
 
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