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Big 10 expansion -- will Pac 10 be forced to expand?

sticking point for Mizzou would be the rivalry with KU. but, if their boards are any indication MU is *REALLY TIRED* of the Texas schools "runnin' thangs"--they are very vociferous about the control of the conference moving south.

ironic, a little, since they used to basically host the Big 8 basketball tournament in KC....but, never saw any unfair advantage there** but the Big XII Champ football game at Jerry's Stadium every year has them apoplectic.

**norm stewart had a half dozen teams "over-achieve" in the big 8 tournament due to an arena full of about 75% Tiger fans.
 
MU/KU would just be an OOC game and stay at a nuetral site, too much money involved to lose and the rivalry.

One thing I don't understand about the whole conference shake up idea is people go off the deep end thinking that rivalries will be lost, they just get moved to the OOC, then you only have 3 spots to fill with cupcakes.

If CU ever left the B12, money says nu wouldn't schedule us in their OOC.
 
MU/KU would just be an OOC game and stay at a nuetral site, too much money involved to lose and the rivalry.

One thing I don't understand about the whole conference shake up idea is people go off the deep end thinking that rivalries will be lost, they just get moved to the OOC, then you only have 3 spots to fill with cupcakes.

If CU ever left the B12, money says nu wouldn't schedule us in their OOC.

Hell yeah they would. It gives them a home game every year.
 
The case for joining the Mountain West ...

First, such a move would have to be predicated upon the following:

1) the MWC getting an automatic BCS bid - which may be coming in the next few years anyway. This puts the Buffs in no worse position nationally than they are now; and
2) a television contract with a network. With TCU, BYU and Utah all being ranked this season, the MWC - with a BCS bid - will be up for increased national exposure.

Why it would benefit Colorado:

1) Natural rivalries would spark local fan interest. Games each season with AFA, CSU and Wyoming would help bring college football out from shadows in the consciousness of the state's fans;

2) The opportunity to expand the MWC profile. If Colorado joined, there would be reason for further expansion of the Conference (Boise State, Fresno State); and

3) this is the most important, though it's hard to admit ... the Buffs would be able to compete on a level playing field.

With 50,000/game attendance the goal each season, there is no chance - zero, nada, zippo - that Colorado can consistently stay up with Nebraska, Texas, and Oklahoma. (How it is that Nebraska, with the only 80,000 seat stadium in the Big 12 North, fails win the title every single season, is a mystery, but I digress).

The other teams in the MWC would be comparable in terms of resources and stadium size, giving the Buffs the opportunity to compete for a BCS bid every season.

I would love to see Colorado in the Pac-12, and that's been the case for many years. I have traveled to Austin, College Station,and Lincoln, but I have no interest in Waco, Ames, or Stillwater. I would be a regular in Seattle, San Francisco and LA - joining the CU alumni base which runs home after getting their degrees. But if the Pac-12 didn't work out in the mid-90's, when Colorado was a national fixture, I doubt it would work out now.

Might be better to look smaller ... to grow the program back to national prominence.

Go Buffs! Kings of the Mountain West! :gobuffs:


I personally think it makes a lot of sense for CU to join the MWC, but I am sure many will disagree. If Boise State, CU and Fresno State were to be brought into the fold with an automatic bid I think it is a win-win on the football side, and CU would have a better chance to compete on the basketball side as well. Throw in the savings on travel costs and a nice conference rotation of games with Bosie State, BYU, TCU, Utah, CSU, AFA, and WYO and I think attendance would actually maintain if not increase at Folsom.
 
part of me has been wondering if we wouldn't be better off in the mwc as well...

our budget, stadium size, and lack of commitment to big time sports fits in much better in the little leagues. if they get a bcs auto-bid, it is even easier to make the case.

personally, i would hate it. if a move is made, i'd like to see CU in the p10, but at this point, would they even want the Buffs? the mwc would be glad to have us.

maybe it is just the depression talking...

:huh:

stfu.jpg
 
I think the only way the B10 takes B12 teams would be in a massive pre-emptive raid. I could see them taking most of the B12 north teams to make a 16 team Conference. KU and MU for BBall, NU, MU, CU for FB, etc...

Something like that may be attractive and basically cover a wide swath of the country.


I don't think that would ever happen. But in a strange way, I wouldn't mind that much if it did.

Throw in the 4 Big XII teams with Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and Northwestern in a western division. Wisconsin, the Michigan schools, OSU, PSU, Indiana, Purdue and Pitt (to round out the 16) in an eastern division.

A conference that runs from the east coast to the Rockies would be pretty amazing. There would be a couple long road trips every year, but it could almost be worth it... :huh:
 
Kansas, Missouri, and Rutgers were considered for Big Ten expansion back in 90's to make a 14 team conference.

Highly unlikely that would be the route taken this go-round, but Missouri certainly seems to be positioning themselves to jump if they are invited.

The fallout for the Big 12 would be interesting. Losing Missouri removes one of the largest TV markets in the North and a good hoops program.

If TCU was brought in to replace them, it would really be all about the Texas-Oklahoma schools for the Big 12, and I think that would not help the conference in the next TV negotiations (isn't that why the SWC died?).

No way would an SEC school even think about moving to the Big 12.

That would leave CSU, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico, Tulsa, and the Texas schools (TCU, SMU, Houston) as the options. The only market that would "open" up in that mix would be New Mexico bringing in Albuquerque (44th largest TV market in nation). No recruiting advantages there, moderate basketball team, mediocre facilities, no prestige to speak of in the revenue sports.
 
Interesting article on the possibility of CU to the Pac-10. The most ineresting part of the article is that the author believes the Pac-10 needs to act now to attract CU -- before the new Big 12 tv contract is negotiated.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/308870-will-recession-lead-to-pac-ten-expansion

I've got some issues with the article (why would CU leave the B12?), but it's fun to speculate about conference realignments.

Thanks to you guys for posting this article and your comments on it.

I am the author of that article that was posted on Bleacher Report.

I appreciate all of your thoughts on the subject!
 
sticking point for Mizzou would be the rivalry with KU. but, if their boards are any indication MU is *REALLY TIRED* of the Texas schools "runnin' thangs"--they are very vociferous about the control of the conference moving south.

ironic, a little, since they used to basically host the Big 8 basketball tournament in KC....but, never saw any unfair advantage there** but the Big XII Champ football game at Jerry's Stadium every year has them apoplectic.

**norm stewart had a half dozen teams "over-achieve" in the big 8 tournament due to an arena full of about 75% Tiger fans.

Tiger fans are a funny bunch. They complain about Texas yet almost all votes on B12 issues end up 11-1 with NU being the 1. The North teams need to nut up a little on some of this stuff or the old SWC will rulke everything.
 
The fallout for the Big 12 would be interesting. Losing Missouri removes one of the largest TV markets in the North and a good hoops program.

i wouldn't say it removes the KC market, Lawrence is less than an hour from KC (closer than Columbia) and KC has a lot of KU grads. KSU is also represented in KC. losing MU would still be a loss, though.
 
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The North teams need to nut up a little on some of this stuff or the old SWC will rulke everything.

too late. they already run everything. basically having the b12 champ game played annually in ****ing texas is one example.

we will rue the day we let these ****s into the b8.

watch and see what really happens if mizzery leaves. a texas ****ing school will be the replacement. oh, and they will drop the divisions so that 2 texas schools can potentially play in the champ game every year. the north's clout is getting worse not better as time passes.
 
I personally think it makes a lot of sense for CU to join the MWC, but I am sure many will disagree. If Boise State, CU and Fresno State were to be brought into the fold with an automatic bid I think it is a win-win on the football side, and CU would have a better chance to compete on the basketball side as well. Throw in the savings on travel costs and a nice conference rotation of games with Bosie State, BYU, TCU, Utah, CSU, AFA, and WYO and I think attendance would actually maintain if not increase at Folsom.

Not that I want to join the MWC, but hell no on joining any conference with Fresno. They make K-State's academic standards look like Harvard.
 
if there was a true mountain states conference (much like the MWC) that included the Arizona Pac 10 schools and had a BCS bid, i'd be interested in having a look. BYU, Utah, TCU (though, probably end up somewhere else), ASU, UA, CU...would be deserving of a BCS bid. fun little baskteball league, too.
 
MU/KU would just be an OOC game and stay at a nuetral site, too much money involved to lose and the rivalry.

One thing I don't understand about the whole conference shake up idea is people go off the deep end thinking that rivalries will be lost, they just get moved to the OOC, then you only have 3 spots to fill with cupcakes.

If CU ever left the B12, money says nu wouldn't schedule us in their OOC.

It pretty much killed the Pitt-Penn State rivalry. :huh:
 
As for Misery to the Big 11, their academic reputation could be a limiting factor. All of the current Big 11 schools are ranked in the top 71 and Misery is tied for 102nd:

First, let's examine where the current Big Ten schools come in in the 2010 edition of national universities rankings:

No. 12: Northwestern
No. 27: Michigan
No. 39 (tie): Illinois
No. 39 (tie): Wisconsin
No. 47 (tie): Penn State
No. 53 (tie): Ohio State
No. 61 (tie): Purdue
No. 61 (tie): Minnesota
No. 71 (tie): Indiana
No. 71 (tie): Michigan State
No. 71 (tie): Iowa

As you can see, having all 11 members ranked among the nation's top 75 national universities is pretty impressive.

Now let's look at where some potential expansion candidates rank. I'm casting a very wide net here on purpose.

No. 20: Notre Dame
No. 34: Boston College
No. 47 (tie): Texas
No. 56 (tie): Pittsburgh
No. 58 (tie): Syracuse
No. 66 (tie): Rutgers
No. 88 (tie): Iowa State
No. 96 (tie): Kansas
No. 96 (tie): Nebraska
No. 102 (tie): Missouri
No. 126 (tie): Utah
No. 128: Kentucky

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten
 
I'm surprised Ohio State is ranked that high. My Dad, who grew up in Ohio, told me that Ohio State was, at one time, obligated to admit ANY student who graduated from a high school in Ohio. The idea being that if you got straight D's in high school, you probably weren't too keen on going to college anyway and would drop out after the first semester even if you did. I'm not sure if that is still the rule in Ohio or not.
 
Thanks to you guys for posting this article and your comments on it.

I am the author of that article that was posted on Bleacher Report.

I appreciate all of your thoughts on the subject!



Nice write up. I am now in favor of the move to the pac 10. never was before but especially if Missouri leaves and TCU comes in. Let Texas have the conference and make the move. The travel would be better, we would have exposure to our fan base and may even be on a more level playing field as it pertains to entrance requirements and endowments. **** it, let's do it now!!
 
i wouldn't say it removes the KC market, Lawrence is less than an hour from KC (closer than Columbia) and KC has a lot of KU grads. KSU is also represented in KC. losing MU would still be a loss, though.

Correct, but the St. Louis market would be lost.
 
if there was a true mountain states conference (much like the MWC) that included the Arizona Pac 10 schools and had a BCS bid, i'd be interested in having a look. BYU, Utah, TCU (though, probably end up somewhere else), ASU, UA, CU...would be deserving of a BCS bid. fun little baskteball league, too.

It's too bad that the population growth of the west has led to the Mountain states schools being separated over the years. Having natural rivals with the Mountain time-zone in all sports would be great.

That conference would be to skiing as the SEC is to football!
 
losing mizzery would be a big loss for the b12 north. the texans would use it an excuse to realign (ie, try to ensure that 2 texas schools play for the conf. championship every year in a texas stadium) and such.

if that happens and they try to bring in tcu, CU is definitely going to need to explore other options.

the p10 is obviously my favorite choice, but there are hurdles. we'll need another school to come with us (utah would seem to be the obvious candidate, because they have the support and size and add another tv market, albeit smaller).

and, there would be trouble with the existing schools. the schools in the north don't want to be split away from the south because of attendance, tv, and other issues. and, everyone wants to protect their "traditional" rivalries. so, you'd start with pairings of stan/cal, osu/ou, usc/ucla, uw/wsu, asu/ua, and i guess, CU/utah.

then, you'd probably not be able to sell a split into divisions. other than the traditional rivalry game, which would be played annually, you'd need to equally rotate all the other games among all the members.

then, the 2 best conference records would play in the championship game. this could also be tricky in some cases. what if ucla and usc have the best record and have faced each other the previous week in the last game of the regular season? that's unappealing on a lot of levels.

also, this whole thing would have to predicated on a new tv contract for the p10, which i think they'd get with the added markets and a championship game.

finally, CU and utah would probably be required to up the number of sports over some period of time to be more in line with p10 stuff, but i am not sure about that. stanford, cal, and ucla in particular field about a bajillion varsity teams each.
 
losing mizzery would be a big loss for the b12 north. the texans would use it an excuse to realign (ie, try to ensure that 2 texas schools play for the conf. championship every year in a texas stadium) and such.

if that happens and they try to bring in tcu, CU is definitely going to need to explore other options.

the p10 is obviously my favorite choice, but there are hurdles. we'll need another school to come with us (utah would seem to be the obvious candidate, because they have the support and size and add another tv market, albeit smaller).

and, there would be trouble with the existing schools. the schools in the north don't want to be split away from the south because of attendance, tv, and other issues. and, everyone wants to protect their "traditional" rivalries. so, you'd start with pairings of stan/cal, osu/ou, usc/ucla, uw/wsu, asu/ua, and i guess, CU/utah.

then, you'd probably not be able to sell a split into divisions. other than the traditional rivalry game, which would be played annually, you'd need to equally rotate all the other games among all the members.

then, the 2 best conference records would play in the championship game. this could also be tricky in some cases. what if ucla and usc have the best record and have faced each other the previous week in the last game of the regular season? that's unappealing on a lot of levels.

also, this whole thing would have to predicated on a new tv contract for the p10, which i think they'd get with the added markets and a championship game.

finally, CU and utah would probably be required to up the number of sports over some period of time to be more in line with p10 stuff, but i am not sure about that. stanford, cal, and ucla in particular field about a bajillion varsity teams each.

I think you'd have to see the league split into divisions. The Arizona, SoCal and NoCal pairs in one division, Oregon/Washington/Mountain schools in the other. Probably with 8 conference games (5 division, 3 inter-division) just like the Big XII does now... And just like the Big XII, the southern division would own most of the big markets... :huh:
 
I think you'd have to see the league split into divisions. The Arizona, SoCal and NoCal pairs in one division, Oregon/Washington/Mountain schools in the other. Probably with 8 conference games (5 division, 3 inter-division) just like the Big XII does now... And just like the Big XII, the southern division would own most of the big markets... :huh:

uw and ou will never agree to it. ... for the same type of reasons we shouldn't have agreed to it in the b12. plus, the last time they discussed expansion, the schools that would not be in the usc/ucla division squealed big time. those are good road trips and good ticket sellers too.

i don't think you can sell a division split. the only way it works, i think, is to protect the one traditional rivalry and rotate the games equally so that no one feels like they got screwed out of a glamorous game unfairly.
 
too late. they already run everything. basically having the b12 champ game played annually in ****ing texas is one example.

we will rue the day we let these ****s into the b8.

watch and see what really happens if mizzery leaves. a texas ****ing school will be the replacement. oh, and they will drop the divisions so that 2 texas schools can potentially play in the champ game every year. the north's clout is getting worse not better as time passes.

Here are the points I worry about too. I kind of wonder what the revenues were like when the Big 12 title game was in KC v Texas.

If Missou leaves maybe we take AF, CSU, KSU, KU, NU, Utah, Byu, TCU, Memphis and a couple of others and make a new conference. Looking at my idea its not very compelling but if they cut us out of the title game then we got a problem.
 
oh, please let this come to pass.

it would actually do something to mitigate my historic level of discontent.

CU would do better in the p10. there is no sports-superpower, let alone several, like there are in the b12. and they actually care a little bit about academics.

we'd be done for awhile no matter what but at least i could make a case for light at the end of the tunnel.

Don'T you think Usc, Oregon, OSU, Stanford, AZ would make buffallo burgers out of CU in football. We could excell at skiing but other than that it would be no better than the B12 IMO. We could wup up on WSU and U dub on a good day.
 
I wants me some Pac-12.

Let's not pretend that the Big 12 years have been good for CU.
 
From ESPN CFB Rumors tonight:

Pac-10 expanding too?
5:25
PM ET
Pac-10 Top Email

It could happen, according to Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott, who took over for Tom Hansen in the summer.

The Big Ten is making a lot of noise about adding a 12th team, and if they did, the Pac-10 and Big East would be left "looking, well, smaller," writes ESPN.com's Ted Miller.

Scott told Miller he'll look at the idea with a "fresh set of eyes," but nothing's imminent. Conference television contracts will expire after the 2011-12 academic year, which is the obvious time for a change.

So, the important question: Who would join? Miller says Utah and Colorado would make nice additions, considering their markets (Salt Lake City and Denver), but getting the Buffs to leave the Big 12 won't be easy. TCU is also a possibility (proximity being the biggest issue) because Pac-10 coaches would love to get in the Texas recruiting hotbed.
 
Let's not pretend that the Big 12 years have been good for CU.

The Big 12 has been great for Colorado.. Its just that Colorado hasn't made the proper investment into their athletic program in terms of facilities, marketing and hiring good coaches. Its been pretty consistent through the years that if you win the Big 12 with 0 or 1 loss you are playing in the national championship game guaranteed. I don't know what else what you guys want out of a conference.


I laugh at you guys who think the Pac 10 would be so much better.. Nothing is changing until the administration starts putting a premium on athletics.. CU has been in the conference for over 13 years now.. How many new facilities have been built? Has Coors Event Center been updated? Has a state of the art indoor practice facility been built for the football team? NO, NO, NO.. Other than Tharp building us football suites for the Football stadium (which was by far his sharpest move) this program has sat on their hands and done nothing while other programs like Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma State have put the proper investment into their programs... Changing conferences isn't going to build new facilities for the program..
 
The Big 12 has been great for Colorado.. Its just that Colorado hasn't made the proper investment into their athletic program in terms of facilities, marketing and hiring good coaches. Its been pretty consistent through the years that if you win the Big 12 with 0 or 1 loss you are playing in the national championship game guaranteed. I don't know what else what you guys want out of a conference.


I laugh at you guys who think the Pac 10 would be so much better.. Nothing is changing until the administration starts putting a premium on athletics.. CU has been in the conference for over 13 years now.. How many new facilities have been built? Has Coors Event Center been updated? Has a state of the art indoor practice facility been built for the football team? NO, NO, NO.. Other than Tharp building us football suites for the Football stadium (which was by far his sharpest move) this program has sat on their hands and done nothing while other programs like Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma State have put the proper investment into their programs... Changing conferences isn't going to build new facilities for the program..
Correct....I said this 3 years ago....follow the Texas model...I know...we do not have the same resources as they do, but we have a hell of a lot of alums spread around the nation who are ready to ante up.....but first, we want a winner. Bring in a new friggin coach, pay him to perform and turn this bitch around (ala Mack Brown...hello!). It can be done. Mike Bohn and I talked about this EXACT ISSUE, and he said this was the plan. Perhaps, he is on the 10 year plan and we are on the 4 year plan. I really believe that this will work, with the right guys in place.
 
If Nebraska goes to B10 (which I think is possible, although not probable) -- then CU should run to the Pac 10. More interesting question is what happens to Big 12 if Mizzou leaves. Utah? TCU? Conference realignment?

And what's the deal with the TV money -- Pac 10 has massive media markets compared to B12 (LA, SF, Seattle, Portland, Phoenix, etc.) but I think B12 TV deal is worth much more money. If you add Denver and, say, Salt Lake City to the Pac 10 TV market, it would have greater marketability.
Nebraska would be nuts to go to the B10, doesn't make any sense at all. They are one of the "Big Draws" in the Big 12. They are on TV all the time, no matter who they play. The Big 10 is the only conference that shares it's revenue equally. They would get the same $ as Northwestern and Purdue. They get way more staying in the Big 12. Now MU is a different matter. With the condition of our football program, we are lucky to be in the Big 12.
 
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