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Big XII not expanding...for now.
- Thread starter jobuff
- Start date
You're going to make me argue pods and getting Texas. But since I don't want Texas (unless the PAC is getting left out) I'll refrain. Always end up going down the rabbit hole.
I do believe we are headed to an eventual 4x16 with pods, semis, finals, semis and national championship. Whether we get there next year or ten years from now? Who knows. I don't like OU fans believing they're headed to the SEC or that the SEC and B1G need to get to 16.
Will the PAC survive? Sure. But in danger of being an after thought on the national scale.
from phone
PAC12 will not be an after thought on the national scene.
The Conference happens to dominate college football in the western half of the nation in terms of area. It includes the California media markets including LA, SD, and the Bay area along with the Seattle market, Arizona, and now Colorado and Utah. All areas that are growing in importance compared to the national market.
No changes are going to be "pushed on the PAC without the conference going along with it.
Other than symmetry their is no magic behind a 4X16. Any one that has been proposed so far compromises the value of the PAC to it's members.
Always a conversation that can draw participants but bottom line is that the PAC doesn't have to do anything and college football as a whole won't go on without them.
PAC is last in TV ratings and have been an after thought in college football my entire life. It's all I have ever heard from PAC fans how they don't get any respect.
Regardless, going to avoid the rabbit hole here. I am certain PAC 12 presidents and ADs are very aware of the revenue gap that is coming. We'll see how everything shakes out sooner or later. If Oklahoma decides it wants GTFO at all costs, it'll be sooner
from phone
Regardless, going to avoid the rabbit hole here. I am certain PAC 12 presidents and ADs are very aware of the revenue gap that is coming. We'll see how everything shakes out sooner or later. If Oklahoma decides it wants GTFO at all costs, it'll be sooner
from phone
The p12 will be fine in the next round of realignment -- the networks need late games and there are **** ton of people in the footprint and there are a **** ton of championships amongst the member schools. They will poach inland and pull four majors. You may be right about the pods but I don't see how more consolidation can be avoided.
That's the point. If we're looking at consolidation not expansion, I'd rather get the helmet schools than the leftovers.
from phone
You know, the longer this goes on I think Houston could become very valuable to other conferences. It doesn't seem like the BIG 12 wants them but they could be very valuable to the PAC. Large enrollment university in one of the biggest recruiting hotbeads in the country in a huge tv market. Could be a TCU like situation.
Deleted member 807
Guest
10 years from now SDSU & Houston & SMU & KU could get the add'l big city markets and CTZ time slots the Pac wants, but without the UT hubris. I'm just fine letting UT run roughshod over the B12, and then raid the ACC while shaking my head as they sell ISU down the river.
The Pac12 doesn't need a member who doesn't prioritize being part of the P12 family.
The Pac12 doesn't need a member who doesn't prioritize being part of the P12 family.
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Houston + TCU would secure the market while also delivering good travel destinations if it were ever to come to it. This thought is more of a long-term idea if we assume that Houston joins the P5 in the next couple years and look out to when the Big 12 rights agreement expires in 2025. Over that sort of timeline, both of those programs would be well established in their markets and national prestige.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25247736
Grandpa Bill wants Nebraska back. And A&M.
Grandpa Bill wants Nebraska back. And A&M.
sure ... and I'm going to **** Scarlett Johanssen tonight
Pics or GTFO tomorrow morning.
The old man also wants his son to be the head coach after he retires.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13303350/bill-snyder-kansas-state-once-retired-wants-son-sean-take-over
Hows that for nepotism.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13303350/bill-snyder-kansas-state-once-retired-wants-son-sean-take-over
Hows that for nepotism.
Probably has earned it with what he does on a daily basis for the past several years. Got to expect Dad is more in a figurehead and conscious of the program these days with others managing the day-to-day business within an organizational structure. But it's a bad spot for his son. It would be almost impossible for him to match or exceed the success.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
Big XII isn't so bad as is. Baylor and OSU have won titles since the exodus. TCU is legit. BCS bowl. Texas has been down and OU looks like they are headed into a down cycle. the conference was strong in hoops even with a lesser Kansas team. WVU was in the sweet 16. The Big 8 was strong in the men's revenue sports the last decade or two of it's life. sports, yes. population density and media markets, no.
i've been hearing this better fit thing my whole life in Boulder....and, maybe that's true. i'd rather go to San Francisco than Ames, but it's football not shopping. i know a lot of old time CU fans who don't like the Pac. i'm just amazed how some people on this board have been "all Pac good", "all Big XII bad"....since it happened. it is kind of funny, the uncritical hooray for now bend logic to every extreme you see sometimes. are CU fans going to be that jazzed to travel to Corvallis in 20 years when the newness is off? i'm going to hold judgement on our Pac identity until we are a team that wins games. most Pac fans i know question our place in "their" conference. the Denver media market never really impressed our last conference mates much....it's Broncos Broncos Broncos 24/7 and the Denver media hates CU. we need to justify being where we are imo.....this is a new age in football and no one, even our fans, seem to care that we are a top 25 all time program. we are getting dangerously close to the time of sucking where recruits don't remember us anything other than colossal blowout fodder.
i don't think CSU or Boise gives the Big XII much. Cincinatti, either. they are right to pass.
to me, i don't get why the SEC seems so against OSU....that they wouldn't take to get OU. they invited OU last time around....and OU and OSU are a package deal apparently. OSU is legit top 25 program as long as Gundy is there, solid in hoops though i don't think Ford is all that....Missouri and ATM have both had success in the almighty SEC even though Pinkel is a known 8-9 win guy with a system/ceiling and i'm not sold on Sumlin long term. i don't think OU would be afraid unless they bungle replacing Stoops (which is possible, imo). OSU is also really good at the spring sports that are big in the South. golf, baseball, etc. the Cowboys have a lot of NC's in that stuff.
all said, maybe it's just that i liked being pretty good when not great at football in the Big 8/XII than being terrible in the Pac.
i like this coach....he's the kind of guy i thought we should hire after Hawk. we'll see.
i've been hearing this better fit thing my whole life in Boulder....and, maybe that's true. i'd rather go to San Francisco than Ames, but it's football not shopping. i know a lot of old time CU fans who don't like the Pac. i'm just amazed how some people on this board have been "all Pac good", "all Big XII bad"....since it happened. it is kind of funny, the uncritical hooray for now bend logic to every extreme you see sometimes. are CU fans going to be that jazzed to travel to Corvallis in 20 years when the newness is off? i'm going to hold judgement on our Pac identity until we are a team that wins games. most Pac fans i know question our place in "their" conference. the Denver media market never really impressed our last conference mates much....it's Broncos Broncos Broncos 24/7 and the Denver media hates CU. we need to justify being where we are imo.....this is a new age in football and no one, even our fans, seem to care that we are a top 25 all time program. we are getting dangerously close to the time of sucking where recruits don't remember us anything other than colossal blowout fodder.
i don't think CSU or Boise gives the Big XII much. Cincinatti, either. they are right to pass.
to me, i don't get why the SEC seems so against OSU....that they wouldn't take to get OU. they invited OU last time around....and OU and OSU are a package deal apparently. OSU is legit top 25 program as long as Gundy is there, solid in hoops though i don't think Ford is all that....Missouri and ATM have both had success in the almighty SEC even though Pinkel is a known 8-9 win guy with a system/ceiling and i'm not sold on Sumlin long term. i don't think OU would be afraid unless they bungle replacing Stoops (which is possible, imo). OSU is also really good at the spring sports that are big in the South. golf, baseball, etc. the Cowboys have a lot of NC's in that stuff.
all said, maybe it's just that i liked being pretty good when not great at football in the Big 8/XII than being terrible in the Pac.
i like this coach....he's the kind of guy i thought we should hire after Hawk. we'll see.
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Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
we hired jon embree based on less. we hired two guys based in Mac's past success....even though Gary Barnett wasn't our first choice if we recall. Gary Kubiak turned us down. if i was a KSU guy, i'd be OK with it. it's a Snyder or the dark night of the past....that's the landscape, history says. Ron Prince, turn the ship around.
they will prolly go after Brent Venables at some point.
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To put it simply, the Big 12 is very unstable based on poor leadership and there seems to be a rift between some of the major programs. And yes, I would much rather go to a game in Corvalis than Manhattan, Aimes, Lincoln, Stillwater, Norman, Lubbock, or Waco, that is not even a comparison. We don't have many students come from those places so obviously the PAC-12 is a way better fit.
I don't hate the Big 12.
Pac-12 simply makes more sense for a host of reasons. Most notably -- look at the donation numbers and where the money is coming from. Alumni and new students are clustered in CA. These new facilities would have been unlikely to happen if CU was still in the Big 12.
Pac-12 simply makes more sense for a host of reasons. Most notably -- look at the donation numbers and where the money is coming from. Alumni and new students are clustered in CA. These new facilities would have been unlikely to happen if CU was still in the Big 12.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I love the Big 12 simply because it's keeping Texas from seriously considering a Pac 12 invite.
The Pac-12 is home to the majority of our Alumni base. That is why its a better "cultural" fit.
I don't think you can compare the Big 8 and the Big XII. I think most old time CU fans pine for the Big 8, and could give a **** about the Big XII. It seems clear that adding the Texas schools to the Big 8 created something altogether different and, to most CU fans, pretty awful. Of course, with history in mind, the Big 8 had to make a move at some point. I wish CU had gone to the Pac back in '94. We would've beaten the crap out of the 90's Pac for a few years.
People are just used to the Big 8/12 schools. The PAC may take some time for many -- and winning a crap load of football games will help. But if you weren't familiar with the Big 12, doubt you'd give a rip less about most the flyover schools in that conference. Most have very low ceilings for any serious National stroke.
Think the thing that makes me most nostalgic is the rivalries. Ya I hate the nubs, but I miss hating the nubs and getting to battle it out with them and the red horde. Ya I hate KU but beating them every now and then in Basketball made the hate worthwhile.
I currently hate ASU and USC because they are douche bags.
UofA and KU are comparable in basketball imo.
Once we start winning again, I think the new conference will really feel like we belong. We just happened to enter the conference at the worst possible time. CU was bottoming out, and the Pac-12 was peaking.
I currently hate ASU and USC because they are douche bags.
UofA and KU are comparable in basketball imo.
Once we start winning again, I think the new conference will really feel like we belong. We just happened to enter the conference at the worst possible time. CU was bottoming out, and the Pac-12 was peaking.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Lots of good in your post. I am commenting on this section, particularly the bold part.
Not many Colorado fans are part of the traveling contingency. There are a few hundred who have the ways and means to regularly follow the Buffs on road games.
The last time CU played in Corvallis, I doubt that CU sold out its allocation of 3,000 tickets. When CU was in Pullman, there were several hundred buffs fans, not thousands. In Arizona, not many CU fans showed up.
The number of Buffs fans swell to 6K or more, however, when the Buffs play at Cal or in Los Angeles. There are thousands of Buff fans that already live California and they will show up now or 10 years from now.
The most traveling buffs fans I've ever seen is around 13-14K at the 2001 b12 conference championship game in Dallas or maybe at the Fiesta Bowl at the end of that same season. Maybe 5000 made it to Austin.
The recent regular season UCLA and Cal games draw more CU fans than any regular season away game outside of the state of Colorado. I've seen more CU fans at Cal than I've seen in a whole season's worth of road games in the Big 12.
The truth is that fans like to talk about comparing Ames or Manhattan or Waco to Pullman or Corvallis or Eugene, but in reality the vast majority of CU fans do not have the desire, time and/or money to attend road games that involve locations that are 400+ miles away. It's so much easier and affordable to just watch the road game on TV.
And once you can check-off a location, the chances of going back again and again is even more limited.
The buffs travelled very poorly in the old big 12. Maybe 400 made it to Lubbock. The last CU game at Okie Lite had even less. There were more Buffs fans at the last Hawaii game than what I saw the last time CU played at Norman or at College Station or Lawrence.
Attendance at the 1996 cotton bowl was really low for both fan bases.
The people most prone to lament CU leaving the Big 8 are most likely to be those who live within a 2-3 hour drive of an old Big 8 location.
But when it comes to making that road trip to a P12 location, it's more like a vacation with a football game attached to it. In the B12, the football game was the whole point of showing up.
An away game to Oregon State should include driving up the Oregon coast, and sampling what Portland offers. Corvallis doesn't offer much to do, but the surrounding area is fantastic. The same can be said for Pullman. This is not the case in the B12.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
sure, and the other guys are right, too. i just think we ought to respect our past some, too. i think one of the things that makes CU great but also problematic is our out of state alum base. kids don't grow up automatic in Colorado wanting to go to CU....etc. mom and dad went to Michigan living in Louisville or whatever.
i will repeat myself: until we start winning games we are not respected much in the Pac as much as we like to glad hand it among ourselves.....and sneer down at the Big XII. we got no urine in our bombs.
SuperiorBuff
Well-Known Member
And no UTerus thorn in our side. I miss the Big 8, I despise the Big XII.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
no doubt.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
i guess that's where i am at, too. i had to get it off my chest. i'm glad where we are....now.
I sort of wanted to stay in the BigXII - all the traditional rivals from the Big 8 meant something. What changed my mind was someone pointing out that CU has more alumni living in LA (where we now play once a year), than in the entire states of Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri and Oklahoma combined, and that Seattle, the Bay area, LA and Phoenix all have more alumni than the state of Texas.
We went from being one of the worst traveling teams in our old conference, to one of the best - and this is while the football team sucked. The Pac-12 schools are going to be confused as hell when we get good and 1/3 of the seats in their "home" stadiums have people wearing the black and gold.
And the donation numbers and opportunities...
It was a very good move.
We went from being one of the worst traveling teams in our old conference, to one of the best - and this is while the football team sucked. The Pac-12 schools are going to be confused as hell when we get good and 1/3 of the seats in their "home" stadiums have people wearing the black and gold.
And the donation numbers and opportunities...
It was a very good move.