anything east of the sierra nevadas is east coast to cali people. :smile:
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!
Colorado & Utah To The Pac10 ? hmm ?
- Thread starter InTheBuff
- Start date
anything east of the sierra nevadas is east coast to cali people. :smile:
Of course, because I live in Phoenix, I love this idea. Does the footballl fall off a little? Maybe, but there also aren't any traditional bottomfeeders like Baylor and ISU. Every team in that conference has been very good at least one season in the last decade. Basketball wise, the Big 12 is better this year. Historically, it can't hold a candle to the Pac-10. Academically, the worst schools in the Pac-10 are ASU, WSU and OSU. Not much worse than ISU, KSU and OSU/TT imo. And the top schools are infinitely better, Cal, Stanford (Top 10 in almost everything), USC and UCLA (I think Top 25 in almost everything).
Is there some distance for road trips? Yes. But, as the crow flies anyway, not much further than what we deal with now (and airplanes tend to fly more as the crow flies, road trippers, its a bit different). Not to mention the large alumni bases in Cali and Arizona. I'm for this all the way. I give it about 1% or less chance of actually happening.
Is there some distance for road trips? Yes. But, as the crow flies anyway, not much further than what we deal with now (and airplanes tend to fly more as the crow flies, road trippers, its a bit different). Not to mention the large alumni bases in Cali and Arizona. I'm for this all the way. I give it about 1% or less chance of actually happening.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
just for argument's sake. ISU did go to a bowl game this year and a couple in the late McCarney era. my point: if you go down the Big XII bowl bids from BCS automatic, BCS at-large, Cotton, Holiday....every team in the conference has played in one of those bowls/filled one of those slots except BU and ISU. that's 10 teams (same as the Pac) rotating through the top 4 slots in 14 years of play. pretty solid parity based in success. Half the league has played in a BCS bowl (OU, UT, KU, ATM, KSU, CU)...pretty stout. OSU, Tech and Missouri were one loss away from a BCS game in the last 3 years.
and basketball: off the top of my head, i bet the Big XII has twice as many Final Fours as the Pac this decade. UCLA with multiple under Howland are the only ones i can think of--unless there is an early 00's UA team i'm forgetting. XII: KU (matches UCLA and has a title), UT, OU, OSU.
Last edited:
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Yes, Mick, UofA made the title game against Duke in 2000 or 2001. I believe they also had a final four loss to Illinois a year or two later. Not much else I can think of from the pacten.
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
I'm torn on this issue, but ultimately I keep going back to the deep history we have with the Big Eight schools. I realize things are tough for us in the Big 12 right now, but let's not make a permanent move to resolve a temporary situation. I kind of feel like a move to the Pac-10 would just make CU the weird cousin on the other side of the mountain with no real rival -- though I suppose that Utah would become that. Even so, I think CU would be giving up a lot. The series with NU is important and I don't know if it can be saved (I'd want to keep it for all sports).
I guess my ultimate feeling is "Be careful what you wish for." I agree that the tenor of the conference has become too Texas-centric, but man, we just better think every angle through before acting. This could be huge -- or a disaster.
I guess my ultimate feeling is "Be careful what you wish for." I agree that the tenor of the conference has become too Texas-centric, but man, we just better think every angle through before acting. This could be huge -- or a disaster.
Meh, pretty even in Final Fours over the past decade (6 for Big XII, 4 for Pac-10). I was speaking more to the overall history, but the Big XII's football history is certainly better than the Pac-10s.
Either way, this is gaining steam. On the radio this morning in Phoenix they were discussing Utah and CU to the Pac-10 as if it was a given that those two teams would be invited. Speculation was that BYU would then be invited to the Big 12 North.
Either way, this is gaining steam. On the radio this morning in Phoenix they were discussing Utah and CU to the Pac-10 as if it was a given that those two teams would be invited. Speculation was that BYU would then be invited to the Big 12 North.
I like it. This way, if Missouri bolts to the Big11 we could move the oklahoma teams to the north, add houston, and just call the Big 12 south "Texas". Sounds like a great plan to me...
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
I agree. A conference move shouldn't look at that as a factor. The fact is, CU would be on an island in the Pac. The Buffs might be a remote outpost now, but it would be worse in the Pac.
Driving mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Big 12 campuses
Nebraska: 501 miles
Kansas St.: 515
Texas Tech: 584
Kansas: 587
Okla. St.: 665
Oklahoma: 716
Iowa St.: 720
Mizzou: 748
Baylor: 887
Texas: 976
A&M: 984
Driving mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Pac 10 (12) campuses
Utah (rumored): 522
Arizona: 922
Ariz. St.: 948
USC: 1,042
UCLA: 1,051
Wazzu: 1,167
Cal: 1,260
Stanford: 1,300
Washington: 1,332
Oregon St.: 1,337
Oregon: 1,337
So, in a Pac 12, the closest team would still be about 20 miles further away than Nebraska is, while only three Pac trips would be shorter than the longest Big 12 trip (A&M). Do all the smaller sports really fly all over as well? Or do they Econoline it? There would be a lot of murderous road trips in a Pac-12. Those Texas trips right now suck, but at least eight conference mates in the Big 12 are 800 miles or closer. Only one school has that title in a Pac-12, Utah, and they're not even in the league yet. Everything else is 900 miles away or more. I still believe this should be a major factor. Honestly, if the MWC could get AQ status and we were intent on moving, I'd rather do that because there would be three other front range teams, UNM, etc., making a lot of short hops. Five games in Boulder, one in Denver, then short trips to the Springs and Laramie. That really would be the best alternate for us to the Big 12, but they would have to be included in the BCS for it to make sense. Even then, I'd rather stay where we have for we have for awhile now, the Big 8/12.
While true, a football road trip should be about the game itself. Just my take.
To expand, they'd have to. And yes, the conventional geographic divisional setup wouldn't work, because the North teams want to keep ties with the LA area. I would propose an ACC format, where you would play a nine-game conference slate, five in-division games, have one locked-in cross-division opponent and rotate the other three games amongst the other five cross-division opponents:
Pac-12 A Division/B Division
Colorado/Utah
Arizona/Arizona St.
UCLA/USC
Cal/Stanford
Oregon/Oregon St.
Washington St./Washington
Under that setup, the North schools would get one LA team locked in annually and get the other LA school twice every few years. That would negate complaints from the Oregon/Washington schools about missing out on SoCal. Also, it would preserve all of the regional rivalries and create interesting divisions not hamstrung by geography.
It would be a good way to pre-empt a strike from another conference. I've felt for a long time that the Big 12 is the most vulnerable big six conference just because of poaching opportunities based off of geographics. Colorado and Missouri are the notable schools that could easily shift to a new league, but pretty much every school that matters (UT, A&M, NU, MU, CU, OU) could be poached logically by another conference (OU, UT, A&M SEC; CU Pac; MU, NU Big 10) aside from KU, which would be the school killed by a Big 12 blowup (awww lol).
I would only go to a Big XIV if there was a serious threat for CU and MU to leave and we needed to do that to keep the conference going. I think Utah is way far away to be in this league, but I realize that's a good market to get into and would secure CU and kill the Pac's chance to get a hold in every big western market. It would be a win-win. Plus, like their religion or not, BYU has a national fan base much like Notre Dame and they would draw well wherever they went in the conference and would play a big part in getting the league more TV revenue, as Mormon hotspots all over the land would suddenly want to see the Big 12/14 action. If that happened, I'd kick Missouri to the South (find a way to keep their KU series alive annually) since they have no in-state rival so it would be an easier switch than KSU or KU to the South, which would not fly.
And then the Big 12 goes the way of the Southwest Conference because of the Texas schools, and yet again, the Texas schools Find a way to eff themselves out of a conference again.
Such sweet justice....
Last edited:
OKC - I think the road trip argument has more to do with accessibility of those who actually attend road games. With the exception of Wazzu, all the Pac 10 schools are near major airports so getting there would arguably be easier than getting to places like Manhattan or Stillwater.
The second part has to do with a large percentage of our alumni base being on the west coast. You could conceivably get more fans to attend road games simply because they are in Cali and Arizona instead of Iowa or Oklahoma.
The Cal game this year may be a good barometer. It will be interesting to see what the CU turnout is for that game, I imagine it will be high by CU standards.
The second part has to do with a large percentage of our alumni base being on the west coast. You could conceivably get more fans to attend road games simply because they are in Cali and Arizona instead of Iowa or Oklahoma.
The Cal game this year may be a good barometer. It will be interesting to see what the CU turnout is for that game, I imagine it will be high by CU standards.
My response to this question over the years:
1994: "Hell no! And don't come back!"
1995-2003: See 1994.
2004-2009: "Hmm. Interesting to consider, unlikely to ever happen."
2010: "Now what would those divisions look like again?"
Point being, I would never have considered this a good move for CU - until now. I hate Texas so much at this point, probably more than I love the old Big 8 rivalries. I would still like to play Nebraska/Mizzou/K State/Oklahoma non-conference for perpetuity.
1994: "Hell no! And don't come back!"
1995-2003: See 1994.
2004-2009: "Hmm. Interesting to consider, unlikely to ever happen."
2010: "Now what would those divisions look like again?"
Point being, I would never have considered this a good move for CU - until now. I hate Texas so much at this point, probably more than I love the old Big 8 rivalries. I would still like to play Nebraska/Mizzou/K State/Oklahoma non-conference for perpetuity.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
i've never been to Manhattan but i have an uncle who is a banker/OSU grad who lives in OKC. he tells me he can drive from his house and be inside Gallagher-Iba in about 50 minutes. not sure exactly where the OKC airport is but it can't anywhere near as "remote" as DIA. DIA to Boulder is about 50 minutes. I don't see that argument so much. i can get on board the local CU alums in AZ, Cali, etc. making a difference. i think the amount of people who make road trips is a wash. let's say because of the new, more desirable destinations the number of CU travelers from Colorado doubled (a very generous consideration).....so, that number goes from something like 2000 to 4000? we can't really be talking about making a decision like this with one of the primary factors being how it positively affects 2000 fans? a small minority of the fan-base. in the big picture, outside my personal travel preferences......objectively, this not a huge factor to me.
just playing Devil's advocate here.
i do agree the Cal game would be a good barometer and i recall both games at USC and UCLA in the early 00's being well-attended by Buff fans.
Last edited:
I guess my point is that there is the real potential to have more Cali people attending Cal games than Boulder people attending Iowa St games.
Also, while I don't have data to back it up, I would speculate that we have more booster money coming in from donors in Pac 10 states than Big 12 states. Being in a conference that would allow us to play in front of our donor base would be a big deal IMO.
Mick Ronson
Well-Known Member
fair enough. probably accurate statements both.
Agreed - the alum groups in the Pac NW, NorCal, SoCal are all larger than any groups we probably have in Big XII Country (minus Texas).
Not sure how I stand on the whole "moving to the Pac 10" issue but... I think most of the people I know will make a Big XII road trip at least once for the experience. But unless you have family near or REALLY enjoy spending Thanksgiving in Lincoln, I think most people skip Ames, Manhattan, Stillwater, Lincoln after experiencing the road trip. On the other hand, I think most of us would find reason to head to LA, Seattle, Phoenix, San Fran, etc. every other year.
Of course, road trips anywhere are always more fun when you are winning - something that hasn't been done for awhile now.
I try to make a roadie every year which are for the most part OOc games, because its hard to rally the crew for a trip to Ames. Seattle, LA, AZ, will a lot more fun for sure.
Flying mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Big 12 campuses
Nebraska: 455 miles
Kansas St.: 466
Texas Tech: 483
Kansas: 539
Okla. St.: 520
Oklahoma: 545
Iowa St.: 622
Mizzou: 694
Baylor: 738
Texas: 793
A&M: 822
Flying mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Pac 10 (12) campuses
Utah: 356
Arizona: 625
Ariz. St.: 589
USC: 833
UCLA: 833
Wazzu: 803
Cal: 944
Stanford: 929
Washington: 999
Oregon St.: 973
Oregon: 958
So, the average trip to a Big 12 foe is 607 miles. The average trip to a potential Pac-12 foe is 803 miles, or about a half hour longer in a plane. Not that big a difference, imo. Additionally, for basketball and other sports, Pac-10 teams will travel to Tempe for one game/match, with another game/match a couple days later in Tucson. Same for the LA Schools, Bay Area schools, Oregon schools and Washington schools (I know, Spokane and Seattle are about as close as Salt Lake and Boulder, but still).
Nebraska: 455 miles
Kansas St.: 466
Texas Tech: 483
Kansas: 539
Okla. St.: 520
Oklahoma: 545
Iowa St.: 622
Mizzou: 694
Baylor: 738
Texas: 793
A&M: 822
Flying mileage from Boulder, Colo., to Pac 10 (12) campuses
Utah: 356
Arizona: 625
Ariz. St.: 589
USC: 833
UCLA: 833
Wazzu: 803
Cal: 944
Stanford: 929
Washington: 999
Oregon St.: 973
Oregon: 958
So, the average trip to a Big 12 foe is 607 miles. The average trip to a potential Pac-12 foe is 803 miles, or about a half hour longer in a plane. Not that big a difference, imo. Additionally, for basketball and other sports, Pac-10 teams will travel to Tempe for one game/match, with another game/match a couple days later in Tucson. Same for the LA Schools, Bay Area schools, Oregon schools and Washington schools (I know, Spokane and Seattle are about as close as Salt Lake and Boulder, but still).
Fun Factor of Big 12 Campuses: (scale of 1-10)
Nebraska: -2
Kansas St: 0
Texas Tech: 0
Kansas: 3
Oklahoma St: 2
Oklahoma: 3
Iowa State: -1
Mizzou: 0
Baylor: 0
Texas: 8
A&M: 2
Fun Factor of PAC 10 Campuses: (scale 1-10)
Utah: 4
Arizona: 4 (can be a 10 if you can hit up Mexico)
Ariz. St.: 7 (see Arizona)
USC: 7 (LA, but can the school be in a worse location)
UCLA: 9
Wazzu: 3 (sorry had it as a 9 before, got Washington and State confused)
Cal: 7 (minus 2 points for being in/near oakland)
Stanford: 9
Washington: 9 (previously a 3 see wazzu above)
Oregon St.: 6
Oregon: 7
Nebraska: -2
Kansas St: 0
Texas Tech: 0
Kansas: 3
Oklahoma St: 2
Oklahoma: 3
Iowa State: -1
Mizzou: 0
Baylor: 0
Texas: 8
A&M: 2
Fun Factor of PAC 10 Campuses: (scale 1-10)
Utah: 4
Arizona: 4 (can be a 10 if you can hit up Mexico)
Ariz. St.: 7 (see Arizona)
USC: 7 (LA, but can the school be in a worse location)
UCLA: 9
Wazzu: 3 (sorry had it as a 9 before, got Washington and State confused)
Cal: 7 (minus 2 points for being in/near oakland)
Stanford: 9
Washington: 9 (previously a 3 see wazzu above)
Oregon St.: 6
Oregon: 7
Last edited:
How is Wazzu(Pullman) a 9 and UW(Seattle) a 3?
Maybe he got the 2 mixed up.
Colin Cowherd was talking about Pac 10 expansion on his show this morning (don't like the guy personally), and he seemed to think Utah was a no brainer and he begrudgingly thought BYU would be the other although he ackowledged there are issues with BYU (academic, no playing on Sunday which is more of an issue for hoops).
His explanation for why CU would be a bad choice...it's a hippie school and the Pac 10 already has plenty of hippie schools. I actually think that works in our favor culture-wise, but either way that guy is a clown.
His explanation for why CU would be a bad choice...it's a hippie school and the Pac 10 already has plenty of hippie schools. I actually think that works in our favor culture-wise, but either way that guy is a clown.
Last edited:
whoops got them mixed up.
I'm drinking at work again.
If we ever play UW up there again, I think I'd stay in Seattle for a night, then drive north to Vancouver for a few more.