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Conference Expansion - Big 12 is a tire fire

hokiehead said:
Cincy to Big XII?

link
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Does the B12 no good adding Cincy if they don't add another school as well. Going to 11 creates a bunch of scheduling issues without any significant advantages. Go to 12 and they can then have two balanced divisions and a CCG.

If they are working on Cincy who would be the other partner. Might be somebody in Florida or another school in the east to provide some geographic balance. Create some closer games for WVU.
 
I think Cinncy is a lock, then it is between Memphis, UCF. After that? CSU us probably a good option. It just feels like the conference wants to go East, not west.
 
MtnBuff said:
Does the B12 no good adding Cincy if they don't add another school as well. Going to 11 creates a bunch of scheduling issues without any significant advantages. Go to 12 and they can then have two balanced divisions and a CCG.

If they are working on Cincy who would be the other partner. Might be somebody in Florida or another school in the east to provide some geographic balance. Create some closer games for WVU.
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the usual suspects: BYU, Houston, UCF, Boise State, Memphis.

you're right, Cincy gives WVU a "travel partner". Keep hearing how Cincy almost made it into the ACC over Louisville -- they must have something. The Florida directional schools will always come up, for recruiting reasons if nothing else.

also, I think 12 teams is no longer required for a CCG.
 
sliderNcider said:
Or BYU
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BYU would kill for an invite to the B12, probably accepting a deal that is ridiculously in favor of the current schools on the top of the conference. They have no other options and are in danger of slipping out of any kind of relevancy. The B12 is probably the only P5 conference that would accept BYU as well so it may be a connection.

The Florida schools may be more likely based on TV markets, recruiting areas, and cultural similarities.

CSU simply doesn't bring enough financial punch to the table, that one isn't happening.
 
I think Texas will win and they won't expand.

What Boren is asking for is impossible and he damn well knows it. He wants Texas to roll LHN into a conference network and expand with two more academic weakling G5s.

Even if Texas dropped LHN, they still have a major inventory issue as ESPN and Fox bought all their rights sans one crappy OOC game
 
Word was that Mike Bohn was hired at Cincy specifically to get them a P5 invite. The Big 12 was/is the only P5 conference that would consider them, and Bohn is supposedly still on pretty good terms with the Big 12 ADs.
Basically another way of saying none of this is much if a surprise.
 
SD Buff said:
I think Texas will win and they won't expand.

What Boren is asking for is impossible and he damn well knows it. He wants Texas to roll LHN into a conference network and expand with two more academic weakling G5s.

Even if Texas dropped LHN, they still have a major inventory issue as ESPN and Fox bought all their rights sans one crappy OOC game
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LHN has been a loser for both UT and ESPN, it isn't working. Despite that I think UT likes having it.

The B12 has already shown that they don't care that much about all conference members getting equal benefit and influence in conference affairs.

Wonder if ESPN an UT would consider rebranding LHN into a B12 network with UT getting a disproportionate amount of the coverage and the potential revenue in comparison with the bottom schools in the league. In this case adding Cincy and another media market like central Florida or Memphis would add to the marketability.
 
MtnBuff said:
BYU would kill for an invite to the B12, probably accepting a deal that is ridiculously in favor of the current schools on the top of the conference. They have no other options and are in danger of slipping out of any kind of relevancy. The B12 is probably the only P5 conference that would accept BYU as well so it may be a connection.

The Florida schools may be more likely based on TV markets, recruiting areas, and cultural similarities.

CSU simply doesn't bring enough financial punch to the table, that one isn't happening.
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Agree that BYU desperately needs a conference affiliation to take the next step, but they just signed a big class with 9 three star and 4 four star recruits. I don't think the program itself is going to slip on the field.
 
Duff Man said:
UConn?
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would make a geographically challenged conference even worse. ACC is the only current option for UConn (although I think UConn would've been a better choice for the B1G than Rutgers).
 
hokiehead said:
would make a geographically challenged conference even worse. ACC is the only current option for UConn (although I think UConn would've been a better choice for the B1G than Rutgers).
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I wish it would happen just from a hoops perspective. It would be awesome to see a UConn-Kansas bball match up annually.
 
Jens1893 said:
How has it been a loser for UT?
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UT is the winner in the arrangement getting $11m in the first year and increasing by 3% per year until capping at $15m per year.

ESPN however is the loser.

Five years ago, ESPN signed a 20-year, $295 million contract with the University of Texas, broke ground on the swanky studio, and agreed to absorb LHN production costs pegged at an estimated $26 million a year, the contract details state.

But it has, bringing into question the wisdom of ESPN’s sizable investment in the only single-school, around-the-clock sports network in the country, which thus far has lost $48 million, according to SNL Kagan, a media research firm.

“Those were bigger numbers than even Notre Dame was getting from NBC,” said former Texas A&M athletic director Bill Byrne.

http://www.expressnews.com/news/loc...e-network-in-the-country-has-lost-6721906.php
​
As was the rest of the Big XII that stuck around to watch that **** show.
 
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If it is Cinci, than memphis makes a lot of sense.

USF or UCF also make sense, some sense but that footprint would blow for travel.

Houston probably makes the most sense out of all the leftovers, but I am not sure UT, Baylor, and TCU would want to add another school in the state.
 
Jens1893 said:
How has it been a loser for UT?
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My understanding was that when they created LHN Texas would be paid a percentage of the profits. So far those profits have been almost non-existent compared with projections.

Texas also hoped that the network would give it a national platform to promote the athletic program. So far distribution has not come close to projections as well. The limited distribution they have outside of Texas is hidden in the upper channel registers and they are essentially giving away tied in with bigger ESPN packages.

Switching to a B12 network model would put them in a much more prominent national view and increase the likelyhood of both exposure and revenues. The network would still be essentially dominated by UT along with OU and WVU

Edit: Miami's post above does provide for UT to recieve a nice chunk of money but long term it would still be in the best interest of UT to modify things to generate greater exposure and potential long-term viability. A number of their B12 "partners" have little choice but to go along with them so they could still structure the finances and programing strongly in their favor while increasing the marketability of the product.
 
MtnBuff said:
My understanding was that when they created LHN Texas would be paid a percentage of the profits. So far those profits have been almost non-existent compared with projections.

Texas also hoped that the network would give it a national platform to promote the athletic program. So far distribution has not come close to projections as well. The limited distribution they have outside of Texas is hidden in the upper channel registers and they are essentially giving away tied in with bigger ESPN packages.

Switching to a B12 network model would put them in a much more prominent national view and increase the likelyhood of both exposure and revenues. The network would still be essentially dominated by UT along with OU and WVU
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UT gets $11,000,000 guaranteed per season regardless of the profits. The LHN *might* turn a $2m profit this year. Might.
 
It's going to be weird to see where they go because everyone thinks it is all about media markets when the success of the SEC has come from smaller, non-diluted media markets. Adding Cincy or Houston looks good on paper but those two markets have a ton of other sports and even other colleges with viewers.
 
Big 12 has the smallest footprint for cable households out of the P5. Without getting into the Tier 3 rights break downs - and just concentrating on OU.

OU receives ~4 million on average for their T3 media rights from Fox. In addition they receive 1.8 million a year for production cost reimbursement as they are wholly responsible for production. So had been assuming their nut was roughly 4 million after expenses. But Boren came out the other week and said

Each Big 12 schools maintains its third-tier rights. For OU, that content goes to Fox under the banner of “Sooner Sports TV.” The school currently pockets between $5-$6 million per year under that agreement. But Boren said the number is less than $2 million after expenses are subtracted.

So if this is accurate and Boren isn't playing loose with the truth to rattle sabers -- now I understand why he's pushing for a conference network. If OU is making less than 2 million a year, then Big 12 schools are definitely not ahead of even the PAC's meager revenue distribution.
 
SD Buff said:
Big 12 has the smallest footprint for cable households out of the P5. Without getting into the Tier 3 rights break downs - and just concentrating on OU.

OU receives ~4 million on average for their T3 media rights from Fox. In addition they receive 1.8 million a year for production cost reimbursement as they are wholly responsible for production. So had been assuming their nut was roughly 4 million after expenses. But Boren came out the other week and said

Each Big 12 schools maintains its third-tier rights. For OU, that content goes to Fox under the banner of “Sooner Sports TV.” The school currently pockets between $5-$6 million per year under that agreement. But Boren said the number is less than $2 million after expenses are subtracted.

So if this is accurate and Boren isn't playing loose with the truth to rattle sabers -- now I understand why he's pushing for a conference network. If OU is making less than 2 million a year, then Big 12 schools are definitely not ahead of even the PAC's meager revenue distribution.
Click to expand...

The problem is they are trapped between UT which will refuse to give up its LHN deal that is 11 million, all profit because ESPN provides and pays for production costs (and ESPN just got them added to DirecTV) and the deal eventually increases to $15 million over time.

And then you have ESPNs parent company Disney (the real money behind all these deals) revising downwards forward earnings because of cord cutting. So even if you could form consensus in the conference to form a Big XII TV network you'd probably have a difficult time finding a network partner like ESPN or Fox that would be as generous as the B1G or SEC deals are because of the uncertainty of the future of cable.

If OU had half a brain, and I think they do, they'd find a way into the SEC before its too late.
 
BuffLuKe said:
Good point, I'm trying to think who makes sense.
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In texas you have Houston, SMU, UTEP, UTSA, North Texas, and Rice. In Oklahoma you have Tulsa.

I think adding Houston and one of UNM or UNLV or UN would be good additions. Would help close up the conference footprint
 
UNLV would bring some basketball prestige, and would solidify the Pac-12's standing in Las Vegas. UNR, would bring some decent football, but probably about it. UNM would bring some more basketball power. SMU probably pretty rounded in bringing a bit of football success and some basketball success. Probably the best partner with Houston.

UNLV, SMU, and Houston are really the only ones that bring any serious media market with them though.
 
OU would be best off doing whatever they have to to get away from Texas. I don't know that going to the SEC is the best bet though because that is a league with a bunch of wannabe Texases.

OU would not be a bad addition to the PAC if they could get away from OSU. Problem is a partner school. Houston mentioned before looks good but I don't think they really have that much pull in their own market.

UNLV and SMU are terrible cultural fits for the PAC.
 
MtnBuff said:
OU would be best off doing whatever they have to to get away from Texas. I don't know that going to the SEC is the best bet though because that is a league with a bunch of wannabe Texases.

OU would not be a bad addition to the PAC if they could get away from OSU. Problem is a partner school. Houston mentioned before looks good but I don't think they really have that much pull in their own market.

UNLV and SMU are terrible cultural fits for the PAC.
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Can you imagine how much Houston's following would grow if they played all the West Coast schools at home? All the redneck Texans could definitely get behind beating the **** out of those left coast liberals haha.
 
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