CU was drawing up a plan to fire Embree before Utah game

[brianphill77]

All three (Maas, Al and DMac) sounded like guys who don't know how major decisions are handled, discussed and communicated within large organizations. Trying to make it sound like a conspiracy theory, that Bohn was hiding details from "important" people within the organization. All three sounded just clueless.

When I read the emails, it sounded to me like they handled it the right way, and the right people knew (and did not know) before it was announced. Very professional. I'm no Bohn fan or apologist, but I couldn't find anything to complain about.

 

[Rick James]

All three (Maas, Al and DMac) sounded like guys who don't know how major decisions are handled, discussed and communicated within large organizations. Trying to make it sound like a conspiracy theory, that Bohn was hiding details from "important" people within the organization. All three sounded just clueless.

When I read the emails, it sounded to me like they handled it the right way, and the right people knew (and did not know) before it was announced. Very professional. I'm no Bohn fan or apologist, but I couldn't find anything to complain about.

They are trying to make it sound like a conspiracy theory because that's what they want it to be. They would love for Bohn to have secretly planned to fire Embree in the face of what was best for the program because that would vindicate their guy.

they're looking for a smoking gun without any scandal to begin with.

A decision was made that they didn't like, and now they want to call conspiracy. The only problem is that they would first need to find evidence of a conspiracy, a reason to suspect a conspiracy, or any reason at all why there need to be a conspiracy. Maybe if they try hard enough they can just mentally fabricate some brown paper bag money.

 

[30Something]

I've never fired someone who was aware that it was going to happen ahead of time. Now, they usually had a good idea their performance wasn't up to snuff, and have been on notice, but I never told someone, "Hey (insert name), just wanted to let you know that as soon as you finish that project you're working on...yeah you'd done. Just wanted to give you a head's up. Stay cool."

Bohn is in an even more unique position due to recruiting, other coaches who will be impacted, as well as the current players. I totally understand why Embree was kept in the dark on this. That said, reading the email string it appears as if there may have been other options being considered. I'm sure one of them was asking Embree to resign for the good of the program, instead of being fired.

 

[cubuffs85]

I applaud the AD to have the balls to make a move when it was apparent that something had to be done. And while Jon is still a Buff for life in my mind, I REALLY wish he'd take a step back from the situation and stop trying to rip the program to shreds. I know it must be hard, but in the long run, it'd be best for him and for the buffs.

He's to blame in the situation as well. This is his last straw, unless the men's basketball program becomes a Final Four contender. How many ADs have presided over three firings including two of them, he hired in a seven year period? Four football coaches in seven years isn't a good thing for an AD of a football-first school.

 

[cubuffs85]

Is Jon's beef really that Bohn kept reassuring him throughout the season? Maybe he expected that Bohn would have said something like "Holy **** Jon, this is a disaster. The team is regressing, the fans are voting with their dollars, I can't even give tickets away to watch this **** show you're in charge of. If you don't at least show some kind of improvement, you will not make it past year 2 of your 5 year contract. You're leaving me no choice here."

In hindsight, it's easy to say, he should've been more honest. I believe based on what was reported, that he was going to be brought back barring scandal or complete disaster. You can certainly argue the latter happened. But yeah, you look at everything --lack of improvement, recruiting, expected season ticket sales, and donations -- and if it's not adding up you have to make the change. So MB might have been completely honest when he was telling Embo this, things change. It happens in life.

 

[cubuffs85]

I am in the Fire Bohn camp. That said, nothing here makes him look like anything but a well organized professional.

My anger towards him is based on three factors. 1.) The extension of Hawk. (I really don't have to go beyond this) 2.)The press conference the day after it terminated Embree.(PR Fiasco) 3.)His public statement of goals for his hiring of a BCS coach that he then failed to deliver on.(Made the school I love look small time on a national stage)

If the new coach turns out to be a guy that turns the program around, then I'll pat him on the back and say good job and I was wrong. If he turns out like my perception of how he handeled Barnett, Hawk and Embree, then I say please hit him in the rear with the door on his way out!

1)He had to do that at the time to prevent him from taking other jobs. Everyone thought this program was headed in the right direction at the time. To say otherwise, is revisionist history and this is coming from someone who was never as big of a Hawkins supporter even during the early years. They beat both Nebraska/Oklahoma for the first time in years, had a top recruiting class, and played Bama competitively in the bowl game.

2)Yes it was a PR nightmare. But these things rarely end well. Not sure how you would've suggested firing Embree? I've noticed CU always let's the departing coach speak on their way out (Barnett to Hawk to Embree), maybe this isn't best practice.

3)Yeah would've been nice to get a more marquee coach. This is where the program is now, it's fallen. Just seven years ago, the hottest up-and-comer was coming here. The idea of Chris Petersen leaving Boise for CU would probably laughable at this point.

 

[NYbuffDIEHARD]

1)He had to do that at the time to prevent him from taking other jobs. Everyone thought this program was headed in the right direction at the time. To say otherwise, is revisionist history and this is coming from someone who was never as big of a Hawkins supporter even during the early years. They beat both Nebraska/Oklahoma for the first time in years, had a top recruiting class, and played Bama competitively in the bowl game.

2)Yes it was a PR nightmare. But these things rarely end well. Not sure how you would've suggested firing Embree? I've noticed CU always let's the departing coach speak on their way out (Barnett to Hawk to Embree), maybe this isn't best practice.

3)Yeah would've been nice to get a more marquee coach. This is where the program is now, it's fallen. Just seven years ago, the hottest up-and-comer was coming here. The idea of Chris Petersen leaving Boise for CU would probably laughable at this point.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Wholeheartedly agree on all points.

 

[pcbuff]

To clarify my point

2)Yes it was a PR nightmare. But these things rarely end well. Not sure how you would've suggested firing Embree? I've noticed CU always let's the departing coach speak on their way out (Barnett to Hawk to Embree), maybe this isn't best practice.


I applaud him for what appears a bold risk to move the program forward. That the press conference took place was what I criticized. I understand that Hawk and Barnett took the high road. This situation was unique. Some members of the press were also former players and friends of Jon. I understand that it is with the clarity of hindsight that I make the comment, but the risk reward was not there. It made a tough situation worse.

It really doesn't matter. Bohn has acted bodly in recent weeks and if it doesn't work out, he will move on. If it does work out, he will justifiably be applauded and and my criticisms will appear juvenile and laughable.

 

[cubuffs85]

Don't tell Embree about this article (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...letics-sign-real-progress-college-sports-ncaa)

 

[BuffHerd]

Don't tell Embree about this article (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...letics-sign-real-progress-college-sports-ncaa)

He gets mentioned with Turner Gil, what a legacy

 

[cubuffs85]

He gets mentioned with Turner Gil, what a legacy

The thing is I actually believe the provost here in that it's a complete coincidence that the 3 of the most prominent positions in the Athletic Department are filled by men of color (I'd say women's basketball hc is more recognized that the AD at Stanford). I'm not as familiar with Muir but I don't think it was affirmative action that got either Dawkins or Shaw his job. In Dawkins case, he always a highly regarded assistant coach at a blue blood and Shaw was promoted within from the success of Jim Harbaugh.

 

[leftybuff]

Don't tell Embree about this article (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...etics-sign-real-progress-college-sports-ncaa)

I am loving this color blind society we are building....

 

[MtnBuff]

The thing is I actually believe the provost here in that it's a complete coincidence that the 3 of the most prominent positions in the Athletic Department are filled by men of color (I'd say women's basketball hc is more recognized that the AD at Stanford). I'm not as familiar with Muir but I don't think it was affirmative action that got either Dawkins or Shaw his job. In Dawkins case, he always a highly regarded assistant coach at a blue blood and Shaw was promoted within from the success of Jim Harbaugh.

This is how it should be done. Searches should be broad enough to include a diverse range of candidates but the final decision should only be based on who is the best qualified for the job and it seems as if that is the case at Stanford.

 

[cubuffs85]

This is how it should be done. Searches should be broad enough to include a diverse range of candidates but the final decision should only be based on who is the best qualified for the job and it seems as if that is the case at Stanford.

Article also makes note of him having two black coordinators, and no one caring and when they replaced OC with a white coach, no one cared either. Well done Stanford!

 

[Dark Bohner]

This is how it should be done. Searches should be broad enough to include a diverse range of candidates but the final decision should only be based on who is the best qualified for the job and it seems as if that is the case at Stanford.

Yep, Stanford did what everybody else should do and just looked at qualified candidates, and didn't even think of race to begin with.

 

[Buffnik]

Stanford hired Shaw at the same time that CU hired Embree. Only one of the schools had people making ethnicity a story at the time. It didn't take a genius to realize there was something wrong with that picture.

 

[lawdogg]

Stanford hired Shaw at the same time that CU hired Embree. Only one of the schools had people making ethnicity a story at the time. It didn't take a genius to realize there was something wrong with that picture.

While I agree with you that JE's race did not necessarily need to be as much of a factor as it was made out to be, I think it's disingenuous to ignore the fact that he was the first black head coach in the history of our football program in a profession where coaches of color have been historically underrepresented. Shaw was not the first black coach in Stanford's history, so you naturally would not have those kinds of observations being made.

 

[Buffnik]

While I agree with you that JE's race did not necessarily need to be as much of a factor as it was made out to be, I think it's disingenuous to ignore the fact that he was the first black head coach in the history of our football program in a profession where coaches of color have been historically underrepresented. Shaw was not the first black coach in Stanford's history, so you naturally would not have those kinds of observations being made.

It should have been one of those bulleted notes at the end of the articles and releases, not something that appeared in quotes as something that deserves a headline.

Otherwise, it's sending the message that CU hired a skin color just as much as it hired a football coach. From the start, I was thinking that some people may not realize what year it is or that some people may see CU in a certain unfavorable light if they think this is such a BFD.

 

[lawdogg]

Like I said, the race factor was overblown, but it's easy to understand why it was at least acknowledged. I have much more of an issue with the extent to which race was used at the end of the JE era than how it was mentioned at the beginning.

 

[cubuffs85]

Like I said, the race factor was overblown, but it's easy to understand why it was at least acknowledged. I have much more of an issue with the extent to which race was used at the end of the JE era than how it was mentioned at the beginning.

If Embree were white, you think CU would've hired him? Based on Bill Mac's comments it sounded like race was a factor at the time of his hiring.

 

[lawdogg]

Not sure if you understood the thrust of my comment. I was mentioning that JE being the first black head coach in CU football history was a noteworthy fact. I agree with Nik though, that it did not need to be the dominant narrative in the coverage of his hiring. My sense has been that the main reason JE was hired was because he was "a real Buff." A lot of people were clamoring for a return to the traditions that had been forged under the original Coach Mac, and thought that someone who had a connection to the program (former player or coach) would be able to get things turned around. So to answer your question, if everything about JE was the same except for his skin color, I do believe that he would still have been hired. I also believe that he would have been fired even if he were white.

 

[BuffLuke80]

If u fire a minority these days, ur gonna get **** for it. Fact is, he wasn't ready yet. I like some qualities he has, but he isn't a head coach yet.

 

[cubuffs85]

Not sure if you understood the thrust of my comment. I was mentioning that JE being the first black head coach in CU football history was a noteworthy fact. I agree with Nik though, that it did not need to be the dominant narrative in the coverage of his hiring. My sense has been that the main reason JE was hired was because he was "a real Buff." A lot of people were clamoring for a return to the traditions that had been forged under the original Coach Mac, and thought that someone who had a connection to the program (former player or coach) would be able to get things turned around. So to answer your question, if everything about JE was the same except for his skin color, I do believe that he would still have been hired. I also believe that he would have been fired even if he were white.

When race seems to be a factor in the hiring, it's fair to question if it's a factor in the firing (even though in this case, he was so bad, his firing was justified no matter what). Would he have been hired if he was white, we'll never know.