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Does The Big 12 Expand In The Next Two Years ?

sackman said:
They'll appeal to the NCAA for an exemption and won't get it. I'd be really pissed off if the NCAA caved on that. Typical B12 behavior, though. You don't like playing by the same rules everybody else plays by, so you want an exemption from the rules.
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I am the opposite. I'll be pissed off if they are forced to add two more mid majors in Cincinnati and Memphis or whoever they land on. Both schools have no academic standards and are located in talent rich areas. Know I am in the minority, but that bothers me for some reason.

From phone
 
SD Buff said:
I am the opposite. I'll be pissed off if they are forced to add two more mid majors in Cincinnati and Memphis or whoever they land on. Both schools have no academic standards and are located in talent rich areas. Know I am in the minority, but that bothers me for some reason.

From phone
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They're definitely not being forced.
 
My brother is a huge Rammie and he called the other night saying that ESPN had CSU as the 4th most likely target for the Big 12, after BYU, Boise (wtf) and Houston.

That made me think, and frankly, although it's better for CSU to be in a P5 conference than to be in the MWC, after all the celebration in Fort Collins died down, I think they would hate life in the Big 12. There's a reason we left - as well as the Nubs and Missouri. (Aggie is different.)

CSU would immediately be Iowa State. Stuck in a geographical no man's land, with all their conference money flowing South and staying there, and very little chance at ever being competitive in the conference in most sports.
 
Alfred91 said:
My brother is a huge Rammie and he called the other night saying that ESPN had CSU as the 4th most likely target for the Big 12, after BYU, Boise (wtf) and Houston.

That made me think, and frankly, although it's better for CSU to be in a P5 conference than to be in the MWC, after all the celebration in Fort Collins died down, I think they would hate life in the Big 12. There's a reason we left - as well as the Nubs and Missouri. (Aggie is different.)

CSU would immediately be Iowa State. Stuck in a geographical no man's land, with all their conference money flowing South and staying there, and very little chance at ever being competitive in the conference in most sports.
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself. CSU would think it had hit the lottery if they got a B12 invite.
 
SD Buff said:
If they don't get a waiver for a CCG, they are essentially being forced.
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I don't understand this viewpoint -- it assumes that a CCG is the only way for the XII to improve SoS.

what about scheduling more home and homes with P5 teams instead of 2:1's with cupcakes?
What about making a scheduling deal with another P5 conference a.la. the basketball acc/b1g challenge?
How about a one-off game on neutral site against a top P5 team?
 
Strengthening their schedules won't add another game. It won't add playing a top ranked team in a CCG where you can add to your resume the last week like every other conference does. I don't know if one of the two small private schools would have gotten the nod over the helmet school - but not having a CCG hurt them. Even had Baylor played a top 10 team OOC, I still think Ohio State's 59-0 dismantling of Wisconsin would have jumped them in.

But if it comes down to extending a waiver for a CCG or adding two more mid majors -- I hope they get the waiver.

Figured I'd post this here. Ol' Bobby throwing a Texas sized hissy fit.




I couldn't help but chuckle when ESPN announced Ohio State as the fourth team in the College Football Playoff. TCU and Baylor were both snubbed.

There was no national public outcry for two minor Christian universities with sparse enrollment and limited fanbase.

When Bob Bowlsby tried to say a conference whose No. 1 slogan of "One True Champion" had, instead, "co-champions" this weekend it was the height of comedy.

Whatever, Bob. That's just so dumb, we all had to laugh at the absurdity of it. After all, you chose the slogan.

I laughed when conference realignment took place with DeLoss Dodds and Chris Plonsky in front of the cameras.

We watched DeLoss and Plonsky try to squeeze to every last red cent they could out of it and did so at every opportunity. ...

Dodds and Plonsky engineered perhaps the stupidest move in university athletics history.

They sacrificed [Texas'] brand. They sacrificed it for cash. They sacrificed the school's good name by leveraging nearly every other conference and every other school in the country.

Perhaps that leverage would have been worth it had Texas ended up in a superior conference with a superior financial arrangement. Instead, Texas ended up on FOX Sports 1 ....

DeLoss gave birth to the Big 12 in the 90s. Then he and Plonsky gave birth to a revised version of the Southwest Conference.

The Southwest Conference worked out so well for Texas last time, that I guess DeLoss and Plonsky thought they should try it again. Tell me that doesn't make you chuckle at the logic of it all.

I laughed probably my most pitiful laugh Thanksgiving night as I watched this past Texas-TCU game and it just didn't hold my interest much. It had nothing to do with the fact that Texas was on the field or that the Horns were losing.

It had everything to do with the fact that the regular season no longer has a true "end" to it. The season used to be punctuated by A&M. Now, win or lose, it's more of whimper, be it TCU or Texas Tech.

Oh well. I'm going to "laugh" next when people in power at Texas continue to say the SEC and Big Ten are off limits to Texas for future expansion because of "philosophical" and "cultural" differences.

Exactly how different are Texas fans from those at Florida or Georgia? The Gators and Bulldogs, both proud public state institutions, don't seem to be hurt by their affiliation with the conference academically or otherwise.

As for the Big Ten, let me ask you these questions. Should Texas be playing Iowa State or Iowa? West Virginia or Wisconsin? You tell me which schools Texas has more in common with.

The Big 12 is not the answer for the Horns.

It served its purpose in the two decades prior. But now it's no longer a laughing matter. LINK
 
SD Buff said:
Strengthening their schedules won't add another game. It won't add playing a top ranked team in a CCG where you can add to your resume the last week like every other conference does. I don't know if one of the two small private schools would have gotten the nod over the helmet school - but not having a CCG hurt them. Even had Baylor played a top 10 team OOC, I still think Ohio State's 59-0 dismantling of Wisconsin would have jumped them in.

But if it comes down to extending a waiver for a CCG or adding two more mid majors -- I hope they get the waiver.

Figured I'd post this here. Ol' Bobby throwing a Texas sized hissy fit.




I couldn't help but chuckle when ESPN announced Ohio State as the fourth team in the College Football Playoff. TCU and Baylor were both snubbed.

There was no national public outcry for two minor Christian universities with sparse enrollment and limited fanbase.

When Bob Bowlsby tried to say a conference whose No. 1 slogan of "One True Champion" had, instead, "co-champions" this weekend it was the height of comedy.

Whatever, Bob. That's just so dumb, we all had to laugh at the absurdity of it. After all, you chose the slogan.

I laughed when conference realignment took place with DeLoss Dodds and Chris Plonsky in front of the cameras.

We watched DeLoss and Plonsky try to squeeze to every last red cent they could out of it and did so at every opportunity. ...

Dodds and Plonsky engineered perhaps the stupidest move in university athletics history.

They sacrificed [Texas'] brand. They sacrificed it for cash. They sacrificed the school's good name by leveraging nearly every other conference and every other school in the country.

Perhaps that leverage would have been worth it had Texas ended up in a superior conference with a superior financial arrangement. Instead, Texas ended up on FOX Sports 1 ....

DeLoss gave birth to the Big 12 in the 90s. Then he and Plonsky gave birth to a revised version of the Southwest Conference.

The Southwest Conference worked out so well for Texas last time, that I guess DeLoss and Plonsky thought they should try it again. Tell me that doesn't make you chuckle at the logic of it all.

I laughed probably my most pitiful laugh Thanksgiving night as I watched this past Texas-TCU game and it just didn't hold my interest much. It had nothing to do with the fact that Texas was on the field or that the Horns were losing.

It had everything to do with the fact that the regular season no longer has a true "end" to it. The season used to be punctuated by A&M. Now, win or lose, it's more of whimper, be it TCU or Texas Tech.

Oh well. I'm going to "laugh" next when people in power at Texas continue to say the SEC and Big Ten are off limits to Texas for future expansion because of "philosophical" and "cultural" differences.

Exactly how different are Texas fans from those at Florida or Georgia? The Gators and Bulldogs, both proud public state institutions, don't seem to be hurt by their affiliation with the conference academically or otherwise.

As for the Big Ten, let me ask you these questions. Should Texas be playing Iowa State or Iowa? West Virginia or Wisconsin? You tell me which schools Texas has more in common with.

The Big 12 is not the answer for the Horns.

It served its purpose in the two decades prior. But now it's no longer a laughing matter. LINK
Click to expand...

This guy doesn't seem to get that Texas IS the problem, and the idea of them moving to a different conference is not going to change that.
 
Alfred91 said:
Of course they would. 5-10 years down the road from there though, I would bet they would have a different perspective.
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Not so sure about this. Aside from the starry eyed, loose screw idots, I think most of them realize that they would be ISU. And I think they would happily trade places with ISU.

ISU would not trade places with CSU, and that's pretty much all you need to know.
 
skibum said:
Not so sure about this. Aside from the starry eyed, loose screw idots, I think most of them realize that they would be ISU. And I think they would happily trade places with ISU.

ISU would not trade places with CSU, and that's pretty much all you need to know.
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They wouldn't be ISU. THey would be an even ****tier ISU. Like, significantly so.
 
I'd love to see CSU try to compete in the Big 12. No doubt it would be a rough transition, but with CSU's new commitment to athletics I think it would get figured out to a passable level within a few years.
 
I would give CSU a better chance of getting into the Big 12 (if they expand) than some. But they need someone who can play the behind the scenes politics for them. CSU can argue they can bring the FrontRange TV market into play for the Big 12. I do not think their is much interest in bring another Texas school into the conference.
 
CSU has their blemishes, like every non-P5 Big 12 candidate. If the Big 12 decides to expand I think CSU is in the conversation.
 
ramfan said:
CSU has their blemishes, like every non-P5 Big 12 candidate. If the Big 12 decides to expand I think CSU is in the conversation.
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Sure - but the first order of business for B12 is a travel partner for WVU.... the does the B12 want to move to the mountain time zone? If they do that, wouldn't BYU make more sense?

CSU's biggest advantage is the potential for the Denver TV market.... unfortunately they haven't shown that they can bring eyeballs to their games. CSU has to hope that they continue to have success, and that this expansion talk drags on for 4 - 5 years, not 1 - 2 years.
 
I think CSU is in the conversation, but mostly as a second option if the B12 doesn't get the schools it really wants. It's pretty clear that Cincy and Memphis are at the top of the pile, with Houston, UNM, BYU and Boise all with better resumes than CSU has. BYU would take the invite before the ink was dry, as would Cincy. I would have to expect Memphis and UNM would do the same. CSU still has an uphill climb. Just being in the conversation would have been nice 6 years ago. Now, it's a small consolation prize. If the B12 decides it wants 14 or 16 teams, CSU has a chance. If they stop at 12, I think they'll be on the outside looking in.
 
dio said:
Sure - but the first order of business for B12 is a travel partner for WVU.... the does the B12 want to move to the mountain time zone? If they do that, wouldn't BYU make more sense?

CSU's biggest advantage is the potential for the Denver TV market.... unfortunately they haven't shown that they can bring eyeballs to their games. CSU has to hope that they continue to have success, and that this expansion talk drags on for 4 - 5 years, not 1 - 2 years.
Click to expand...
There is logic to everything you're saying but, again, every school has blemishes. Every program that can be given real consideration has a relatively small fan base outside of BYU. You'd expect fan support to increase with a move to the Big 12 (playing OSU, KSU, and Texas is bound to have an effect compared to San Jose State, UNLV, and Nevada).

Cincinnati makes a lot of sense geographically and has a solid product on the field/court (which I think matters less than most people give it credit for). They would definitely be a front runner.

BYU doesn't want to play on Sundays, has a public perception of arrogance due to the whole recent move to Indy, is even further west than CSU, and offers limited benefit to Big 12 recruiting.

Memphis sustains success in basketball and now shows life in football, is good geographically, but isn't a great fit in terms of being academic peers to the other Big 12 institutions.

UCF offers the chance to break into Florida and has had recent sports success. Otherwise it isn't a great fit geographically and would likely to be interested in eventually defecting to more regional conference if given the opportunity.

Boise does have a good fan base (given their conference affiliation) but has limited success outside of football, is a horrible geographical fit, is perceived as gimmicky, and isn't an academic peer.

CSU is an institutional peer, football is hopefully on the rise, basketball has been fairly competitive recently, and will be building a new stadium, but is a poor fit geographically.

I'd guess that Cinncinatti, BYU, and CSU would be the first 3 considered, but I could just be seeing this through green and gold glasses.
 
sackman said:
They'll appeal to the NCAA for an exemption and won't get it. I'd be really pissed off if the NCAA caved on that. Typical B12 behavior, though. You don't like playing by the same rules everybody else plays by, so you want an exemption from the rules.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You gave one school all the power. You decided not to share revenue evenly. Now your pissed that you've been left out of the playoff system after 4 schools left that ****ty arrangement? Your the Big lEast now. Go **** yourself.
 
If the B12 went to BYU and said "You get an invite, but there may be a few basketball games played on Sundays", BYU would suddenly find that playing on Sunday was part of God's will afterall. I'm sure they'd uncover some heretofore unknown Book of Mormon that showed how Brigham Young himself was fond of a little game of rounders on Sunday after services were finished.
 
ramfan said:
I'd love to see CSU try to compete in the Big 12. No doubt it would be a rough transition, but with CSU's new commitment to athletics I think it would get figured out to a passable level within a few years.
Click to expand...

I get that the board of governors just approved the on campus stadium, but let's not get carried away with this "new commitment to athletics". Tony Frank killed that commitment the moment he allowed McElwain and Florida off the hook for the full $7.5 mm within 30 days. It also died the moment Frank couldn't get along with Jack Graham and fired him for "personal differences". In the last 6 months, CSU has lost their prized football coach and the AD that hired him (and Eustacy) as a direct result of the institute's lack of commitment to athletics.

It took 10+ years of futility for the CU executives to realize athletics are a part of the success of big universities. They finally went out and found an AD that knows how to do the most important job of all: FUND RAISE. That's what Jack Graham did well and the CSU fans and execs are going to find this out over the coming years.
 
UCF isn't just a good football school, their Olympic programs are all very strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Alfred91 said:
This guy doesn't seem to get that Texas IS the problem, and the idea of them moving to a different conference is not going to change that.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Unlike those other schools Texas doesn't want to share. In the SEC, the Pac, and the B1G they share revenue. All for one and one for all.

First You destroyed the OU NU rivalry. Then you moved the conference CCG and the conference offices to Texas. You let the marquee team in the North leave for the B1G. Then you let your biggest rival A&M leave. Missouri and CU were not exactly chumps either. Maybe you can build a rivalry with KU or SMU.

You get what you deserve Texas. Money destroys tradition. Its destroyed the bowls. It destroyed the Big12 and the Big8.

**** you. **** Austin. and **** Texas.
 
Undefeated said:
I get that the board of governors just approved the on campus stadium, but let's not get carried away with this "new commitment to athletics". Tony Frank killed that commitment the moment he allowed McElwain and Florida off the hook for the full $7.5 mm within 30 days. It also died the moment Frank couldn't get along with Jack Graham and fired him for "personal differences". In the last 6 months, CSU has lost their prized football coach and the AD that hired him (and Eustacy) as a direct result of the institute's lack of commitment to athletics.

It took 10+ years of futility for the CU executives to realize athletics are a part of the success of big universities. They finally went out and found an AD that knows how to do the most important job of all: FUND RAISE. That's what Jack Graham did well and the CSU fans and execs are going to find this out over the coming years.
Click to expand...
My personal opinion is Frank had the vision, Graham was the mouthpiece. No doubt Graham had the energy and balls to make CSU fans think bigger than we ever had, but I don't think it all died the day he was fired. Admittedly, that's how I felt at first, but then Frank went ahead with the stadium anyway. Time will tell.
 
ramfan said:
There is logic to everything you're saying but, again, every school has blemishes. Every program that can be given real consideration has a relatively small fan base outside of BYU. You'd expect fan support to increase with a move to the Big 12 (playing OSU, KSU, and Texas is bound to have an effect compared to San Jose State, UNLV, and Nevada).

Cincinnati makes a lot of sense geographically and has a solid product on the field/court (which I think matters less than most people give it credit for). They would definitely be a front runner.

BYU doesn't want to play on Sundays, has a public perception of arrogance due to the whole recent move to Indy, is even further west than CSU, and offers limited benefit to Big 12 recruiting.

Memphis sustains success in basketball and now shows life in football, is good geographically, but isn't a great fit in terms of being academic peers to the other Big 12 institutions.

UCF offers the chance to break into Florida and has had recent sports success. Otherwise it isn't a great fit geographically and would likely to be interested in eventually defecting to more regional conference if given the opportunity.

Boise does have a good fan base (given their conference affiliation) but has limited success outside of football, is a horrible geographical fit, is perceived as gimmicky, and isn't an academic peer.

CSU is an institutional peer, football is hopefully on the rise, basketball has been fairly competitive recently, and will be building a new stadium, but is a poor fit geographically.

I'd guess that Cinncinatti, BYU, and CSU would be the first 3 considered, but I could just be seeing this through green and gold glasses.
Click to expand...

I don't think Big12 cares about academics that much.... especially with UT leading the band. They just want money.

My opinion

Tier 1: Cinncy, BYU, UCF
Tier 2: Memphis, CSU, Houston, Boise
 
sackman said:
If the B12 went to BYU and said "You get an invite, but there may be a few basketball games played on Sundays", BYU would suddenly find that playing on Sunday was part of God's will afterall. I'm sure they'd uncover some heretofore unknown Book of Mormon that showed how Brigham Young himself was fond of a little game of rounders on Sunday after services were finished.
Click to expand...


Kinda like when they announced caffeine was now ok after the church endowment bought a big stock position in Pepsico?
 
MiamiBuffs said:
Kinda like when they announced caffeine was now ok after the church endowment bought a big stock position in Pepsico?
Click to expand...

Or when they were told that they would lose their tax-exempt status unless they admitted Blacks into the church. BAM! Somebody had a revelation about how it was now OK to let Black people into the church. Amazing how that worked out.
 
ramfan said:
My personal opinion is Frank had the vision, Graham was the mouthpiece. No doubt Graham had the energy and balls to make CSU fans think bigger than we ever had, but I don't think it all died the day he was fired. Admittedly, that's how I felt at first, but then Frank went ahead with the stadium anyway. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Time will tell for sure, but I just feel like it was Graham that brought the stadium fantasy into reality and now Frank is just picking up where he left off. Almost feels like a "consolation" for CSU fans after losing their coach.

Could you imagine if CU had just had their first winning season since the Barnett years, were underway with the facility upgrades and Bruce Benson fired Rick George over "personal differences"? What would that tell CU fans about the regent's commitment to athletics?
 
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