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Duck should be in trouble.

DesertDawg526 said:
....this is the most blatant and serious offense that I have seen in college football in decades. Much worse than anything USC or OSU or Auburn has done... those programs at least tried to be discreet. Oregon's is in your face blatant.
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I agree 100%.

In the Cam Newton situation, it was his Dad who was asking for money. That will be dealt with sternly if they can prove that Auburn or anyone affiliated paid money. But it's his Dad. There are rogue parents everywhere.

Oregon is more serious because it's a "handler" or pimp that was asking for money. A guy who's profession was "getting close to players and earning their trust" and then selling them like cattle. It's a slight distinction maybe to some, but one the NCAA will want to make an example of in my opinion.

Secondly, Oregon tried to cover it up with the last minute "paperwork creation" scam to make it look like it was a scouting service and they were getting information.

Thirdly, Phil Knight. Sure the NCAA allows you to give a kid a pair of athletic shoes. But a pair of one-of-a-kind Jordan's? This is going to change. To keep college athletics competitive, and profitable, I am quite sure the Universities are pushing hard to keep the Phil Knights and T-Boone Pickens at more of a distance. Universities across the country do not want to have to be in this silly facilities war. The NCAA is not appreciative of these guys so look for them to not be doing Mr. Knight's Ducks any favors here.

Assuming they can collect the evidence, this should come down much harder than either OSU or USC.

When the dust clears, will TCU be named National Champs?
 
MtnBuff said:
And again my big question. Does the NCAA make them cut ties with Phil Knight money? If so they are on a collision course with mediocricy again since much of what they have built has been his money.

I would assume that they would separate the "NIKE" items like uniforms and etc. from Phil's financial donations and allow them to continue recieving NIKE benefits similar to other schools but Phil's millions may be cut off.
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Duck U is done if they lose phils $$
 
buffaholic said:
I agree 100%.

In the Cam Newton situation, it was his Dad who was asking for money. That will be dealt with sternly if they can prove that Auburn or anyone affiliated paid money. But it's his Dad. There are rogue parents everywhere.

Oregon is more serious because it's a "handler" or pimp that was asking for money. A guy who's profession was "getting close to players and earning their trust" and then selling them like cattle. It's a slight distinction maybe to some, but one the NCAA will want to make an example of in my opinion.

Secondly, Oregon tried to cover it up with the last minute "paperwork creation" scam to make it look like it was a scouting service and they were getting information.

Thirdly, Phil Knight. Sure the NCAA allows you to give a kid a pair of athletic shoes. But a pair of one-of-a-kind Jordan's? This is going to change. To keep college athletics competitive, and profitable, I am quite sure the Universities are pushing hard to keep the Phil Knights and T-Boone Pickens at more of a distance. Universities across the country do not want to have to be in this silly facilities war. The NCAA is not appreciative of these guys so look for them to not be doing Mr. Knight's Ducks any favors here.

Assuming they can collect the evidence, this should come down much harder than either OSU or USC.

When the dust clears, will TCU be named National Champs?
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You have hit on a big point.

With Auburn, Ohio State, USC, etc. the schools can argue that although the violations involved significant amounts of money they involved a very limited number of athletes in isolated instances. (probably not true but they can make the arguement.) In the case of Oregon, and this is what makes them similar to SMU it appears that the violations involved a significantly larger number of athletes. This goes back to the big issue for the NCAA which is institutional control. OSU can claim, as can USC and Auburn that these were serious but isolated incidents and that the Athletic Director and those above him didn't and reasonably wouldn't know about what was happening. In the case of Oregon you had money billed to university accounts that went to the recruiting of multiple players meaning that a culture of violations existed and that those above the football program should have reasonably known or at least inquired.
 
sackman said:
I'm beginning to come around to the idea that UO will (and should) get in trouble, but I'm still not of the opinion that they'll get what USC got UNLESS there's a lot more that comes to light.
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I think the biggest distinction with the allegations against Oregon is the tacit knowledge and approval of Chip Kelly and the AD. Pete Carroll did not give Reggie Bush a house, an agent did (USC just "looked the other way). Auburn's HC did not pay Cam Newton, an agent paid his father...

With Oregon, you have allegations of the staff and AD directing an agent to buy player commitments. I have never seen a team in college football where the head coach and AD were dumb enough to run point themselves for these types of violations. And these violations are much worse than something like an athlete getting additional hours on a paycheck or getting a free sandwich from a booster. Chip Kelly has allegedly directly paid an agent to get player commitments. This probably happens all over but it's never been alleged before. Certainly not since SMU and I certainly don't know all of the details of that. And this IMO is what could set Oregon apart. It's far more egregious than anything USC has done IMO... I will be shocked if Oregon escapes with a penalty lighter than USC's. Shocked.

Granted, everything now is an allegation. But it sure seems by the sniff test that there was blatant disregard for the NCAA rules, and it came from the top and could potentially be proven. If this isn't the "10" we've heard about I don't know what could be...
 
It's the LYING and attempting coverups that will nail UO, not the actual infractions themselves. That's what got OSU nailed.
 
If you guys are right, UO is screwed.

I can't yet figure out whether this is just a bunch of CU (and UW) fans *hoping* the hammer comes down on UO or if there's really enough there to make it happen. I still can't see that what they did was so egregious. It all seems pretty minor to me. The issue, for me at least, is the sum total of the violations. Individually, none of the things they've been accused of seems like that big of a deal. Taken as a whole, they could be extremely damaging.
 
DesertDawg526 said:
I think the biggest distinction with the allegations against Oregon is the tacit knowledge and approval of Chip Kelly and the AD. Pete Carroll did not give Reggie Bush a house, an agent did (USC just "looked the other way). Auburn's HC did not pay Cam Newton, an agent paid his father...

With Oregon, you have allegations of the staff and AD directing an agent to buy player commitments. I have never seen a team in college football where the head coach and AD were dumb enough to run point themselves for these types of violations. And these violations are much worse than something like an athlete getting additional hours on a paycheck or getting a free sandwich from a booster. Chip Kelly has allegedly directly paid an agent to get player commitments. This probably happens all over but it's never been alleged before. Certainly not since SMU and I certainly don't know all of the details of that. And this IMO is what could set Oregon apart. It's far more egregious than anything USC has done IMO... I will be shocked if Oregon escapes with a penalty lighter than USC's. Shocked.

Granted, everything now is an allegation. But it sure seems by the sniff test that there was blatant disregard for the NCAA rules, and it came from the top and could potentially be proven. If this isn't the "10" we've heard about I don't know what could be...
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Except in basketball. I'm really worried that football is getting as bad as hoops.
 
Buffnik said:
Except in basketball. I'm really worried that football is getting as bad as hoops.
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(in my quote I listed football specifically for this exact reason). Football is getting about as bad as hoops, and that's why I think Oregon is going to get nailed. They are likely going to be made an example of for egregious violations and cover ups. Nike money may make them an even more attractive target for the NCAA.

I think Buffaholic summed it up well. Taken as a whole, the violations, the cover up and big booster money.... watch out Ducks...

I'll be so sad if it comes to pass:lol:
 
These are pretty ****ing bad violations, no getting around that. I still dont think any school will ever get the death penalty again. SMU had continuous violations when they were already getting slammed. That said, Oregon better hope they dont find much else. You could take USC's punishment a little further and slap them on Oregon.
 
The problem for Oregon is that even if they don't get hit as hard as USC, they don't have the capacity for resilience. They don't have the established name, the tradition, and most importantly the depth of financial backers that SC has. If they get knocked down, getting up won't be near as easy.
 
MtnBuff said:
The problem for Oregon is that even if they don't get hit as hard as USC, they don't have the capacity for resilience. They don't have the established name, the tradition, and most importantly the depth of financial backers that SC has. If they get knocked down, getting up won't be near as easy.
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:nod:

Plus, they don't have talent in their back yard. Nike perks are the main reason anyone goes there.
 
I don't think there's any doubt that significant NCAA sanctions would cripple UO. It would set them back decades, especially if the Nike money were taken away. I remember when UO and Oregon State were basically mirror images of each other.
 
Let's not forget about the Ducks giving players free rental cars. No drivers license required.
 
Buffnik said:
The shoes thing is potentially the biggest thing. Obviously, you can't give a recruit shoes. In this case, it does beg the question of how the Oregon program was able to get 1 of the 2 pairs ever made of a certain Air Jordan shoe. This could potentially blow the lid off the Phil Knight connection and Oregon turning into Nike U. The more they dig on that angle, the more stuff they're going to find.
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No they won't.... because Phil Knight knows rule #1, #4, and #7..... always pay in cash.....
 
buff4bcs1985 said:
can larry scott punish them? im being serious
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Larry Scott is ****ing superman... he can do what he wants....

but no....

There is a Pac-12 disciplinary procedure that has to be followed..... I am sure you can find out who is on it.... but Larry would not have sole authority to punish....
 
The amazing part in this to me is that, according to Lyles, Oregon got a pair of Air Jordans for Seastrunk on his visit. Apparently they were one-of-a-kind (well, one of two) and OU got them because Seastrunk really like Jordans. That has to be an inappropriate gift to a recruit. How much can a pair of unique collector shoes like that run? Certainly more than a tatoo.
 
NW Buff said:
The amazing part in this to me is that, according to Lyles, Oregon got a pair of Air Jordans for Seastrunk on his visit. Apparently they were one-of-a-kind (well, one of two) and OU got them because Seastrunk really like Jordans. That has to be an inappropriate gift to a recruit. How much can a pair of unique collector shoes like that run? Certainly more than a tatoo.
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Didn't CU get yelled at for giving CU gear to recruits? A one of a kind pair of Jordans has to be way way out on the impermissable gifts department.
 
sackman said:
If you guys are right, UO is screwed.

I can't yet figure out whether this is just a bunch of CU (and UW) fans *hoping* the hammer comes down on UO or if there's really enough there to make it happen. I still can't see that what they did was so egregious. It all seems pretty minor to me. The issue, for me at least, is the sum total of the violations. Individually, none of the things they've been accused of seems like that big of a deal. Taken as a whole, they could be extremely damaging.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. It looks like its common practice to pay recruiting services. In the end, that is what Oregon will claim they did. The recruiting guy seems to be speculating as to Oregon's motive. He doesn't know for sure.
 
DesertDawg526 said:
(in my quote I listed football specifically for this exact reason). Football is getting about as bad as hoops, and that's why I think Oregon is going to get nailed. They are likely going to be made an example of for egregious violations and cover ups. Nike money may make them an even more attractive target for the NCAA.

I think Buffaholic summed it up well. Taken as a whole, the violations, the cover up and big booster money.... watch out Ducks...

I'll be so sad if it comes to pass:lol:
Click to expand...
What would help CU and it's ilk more than Oregon getting slammed would be that the NCAA implements sweeping reform in college athletics. For instance, make it illegal for any school to pay any recruiting service or agent for their services. They should also label these recruiting guys and AAU coaches as agents. Maybe anyone acting as an "advisor" to a student athlete should have to be acredited in order to practice the profession.
 
NW Buff said:
The amazing part in this to me is that, according to Lyles, Oregon got a pair of Air Jordans for Seastrunk on his visit. Apparently they were one-of-a-kind (well, one of two) and OU got them because Seastrunk really like Jordans. That has to be an inappropriate gift to a recruit. How much can a pair of unique collector shoes like that run? Certainly more than a tatoo.
Click to expand...
lyles recnated

WillieLyles Willie Lyles by Chris_Fetters



The shoes were on display and I never said they were given to Lache http://twitpic.com/5lu1bu
Click to expand...
 
buff4bcs1985 said:
lyles recnated
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Thanks for catching that. The local sports talk (Canzano's show) had it messed up yesterday. From what Lyle's said, it's hard to understand why he'd even comment if it wasn't a gift. He claims he told Oregon that the way to get Seastrunk was Jordans (He's a Jordan head). Now if Oregon had to go out and get some Jordans to display at their facilities, maybe I get it. If they are always there, then it's not a big deal that Lyle told them about it since Seastrunk would have seen them anyways. Go figure?
 
DBT said:
I agree with you. It looks like its common practice to pay recruiting services. In the end, that is what Oregon will claim they did. The recruiting guy seems to be speculating as to Oregon's motive. He doesn't know for sure.
Click to expand...

The difference is it appears OU didn't pay the 25K for actual recruiting info. They gave the guy $25,000 for having certain players he had influence with sign with them. Then when the Yahoo story broke they needed something fast so he sent them what he could find. Unfortunately, it was a list with 2009 recruits who had already signed elsewhere and in fact one of them was dead. They also claimed they paid for a national list and 133 of 140 on that list were from TX. If they paid for legitimate information this might be acceptable. They didn't and then tried to scramble to make it look legit. This stinks to high heaven and with emails and letters in hand I'd say the NCAA has more than enough evidence that the HC and AD were involved. I wouldn't be surprised if James and and especially Seastrunk are ruled inelligable. Honestly I don't see how it could be looked at any other way. There was no national list, the money was paid without any list initially presented at all and voila, big time recruits Lyles knew well suddenly sign with Oregon. Add on the letters and emails (and phone records) of the coach and AD thanking him for "orchestrating" it all and I see some major sanctions heading their way.
 
One thing that is not being mentioned here is that this is an NCAA disciplinary process, not a court of law. If the NCAA thinks it all adds up to cheating then it is cheating and they act accordingly. There are no rules of evidence here, there is not a jury of peers to influence, the NCAA doesn't worry a lot about being overturned on appeal.

What does matter to the NCAA is public perception. What does matter to them is how the public percieves the NCAA and the sport. They are just coming from dealing with two of the biggest names in the sport (USC and tOSUz) being all over the media for being dirty, they are still facing questions about their current champion (Auburn) being dirty. The internet has changed everything in that they can't sweep stuff under the rug and they can't ignore things until they go away. They have to show that they are serious about "cleaning up" the game. Oregon has made a big enough farce out of this that it can't be ignored. I would be very surprised if the NCAA doesn't make an example out of them. You can argue all the subtleties you want but the NCAA works in the court of public opinion and the Ducks are in the process of getting plucked and soon to be cooked.
 
Bounce between Ohio State and Oregon violation stories. They are both screwed. I think both are worse than USC, the unsavory football program. The thing that really differentiates all this....Gene Smith as the voice of OSU comes off as a moron... an Imbecile, and cut the deal for Tress, health care and $52K, forgive the 250K penalty. Oregon is silent. Shhhhhh. They don't have Gorden Gee. OSU is history. Big hammer coming down and Oregon shouldn't be too far behind.
 
DBT said:
I agree with you. It looks like its common practice to pay recruiting services. In the end, that is what Oregon will claim they did. The recruiting guy seems to be speculating as to Oregon's motive. He doesn't know for sure.
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If the NCAA investigated every school that paid for recruiting services, their job would never end. I'm sure CU pays somebody for film on recruits, unless they get it free, and something for nothing doesn't exist except in fairy tales. $25,000 seems way too high for just film.
 
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