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Email Todd Saliman About Transfer Rules

LesGrossman

LesGrossman

Club Member
Club Member
We have the next two months to attack this issue and we need to hit it hard. If we don’t change those rules, we’re looking at another impotent hire, more wasted dollars, and pain.

Target progress towards degree restrictions and credit transfer issues. This is larger than athletics. There is no reason for a school with such a high acceptance rate of high schoolers to impose arbitrary roadblocks for ANY students and athletes that wish to finish their education at our great institution.

Mention any and all academically focused schools better than ours who still seem to be able to use the portal just fine


officeofthepresident@cu.edu
 
LesGrossman said:
We have the next two months to attack this issue and we need to hit it hard. If we don’t change those rules, we’re looking at another impotent hire, more wasted dollars, and pain.

Target progress towards degree restrictions and credit transfer issues. This is larger than athletics. There is no reason for a school with such a high acceptance rate of high schoolers to impose arbitrary roadblocks for ANY students and athletes that wish to finish their education at our great institution.

Mention any and all academically focused schools better than ours who still seem to be able to use the portal just fine


officeofthepresident@cu.edu
Click to expand...
I'm just now fully wrapping my head around this issue.

Specifically, what change are we advocating? You want CU to offer a liberal arts degree? A general studies degree?

You want CU to keep the diploma offering as is, but count LA or GS courses towards a program CU does offer?

Or am I still completely missing the issue here?
 
hokiehead said:
I'm just now fully wrapping my head around this issue.

Specifically, what change are we advocating? You want CU to offer a liberal arts degree? A general studies degree?

You want CU to keep the diploma offering as is, but count LA or GS courses towards a program CU does offer?

Or am I still completely missing the issue here?
Click to expand...
Phil is deflecting with his “PE majors” comment. Lots of good schools obviously don’t offer that.

The issue is, CU is throwing out credits earned at other institutions because you need 48 of your 120 total degree credits to be earned AT CU. So if you’re an upper classman, you’re SOL because CU won’t count those credits toward your degree because you have the minimum that you need to earn (see: overpay) CU for

An interdisciplinary general studies degree would obviously help a lot too, but idk if they’d actually change that. The progress toward degree issue is much more pressing bc it’s a completely made up issue
 
From Adam:

“
CU has evaluated multiple players heading into their third season (48 credits of PTD by fall of junior year) at another program and they will typically have between 20-40 transferable credits. Even if they are on the upper end of that with 40 credits, they would have to pass eight credits in the summer just to be eligible for the fall.

And they will then have to average at least 12 credits per semester for the rest of their college careers to maintain their eligibility. Shrout had to take 18 credits in one semester just to stay eligible.

A very small percentage of other Power 5 programs have to deal with similar academic restrictions, with Stanford and Vanderbilt being a couple others that do.

Any program that has a liberal studies or general studies major will probably not have similar restrictions. Duke and Michigan are a couple examples of a prestigious academic institution that has a liberal studies degree. And one example in the Pac-12, Cal can tout its academic prestige while getting pretty much any athlete in that they want.”
 
LesGrossman said:
Phil is deflecting with his “PE majors” comment. Lots of good schools obviously don’t offer that.

The issue is, CU is throwing out credits earned at other institutions because you need 48 of your 120 total degree credits to be earned AT CU. So if you’re an upper classman, you’re SOL because CU won’t count those credits toward your degree because you have the minimum that you need to earn (see: overpay) CU for

An interdisciplinary general studies degree would obviously help a lot too, but idk if they’d actually change that. The progress toward degree issue is much more pressing bc it’s a completely made up issue
Click to expand...
ahh, ok, thanks. I got sidetracked away from the 48/120 piece with the offered majors / progress to degree piece.

not sure what is normal there. looking at VT's page, it seems there's only a requirement that all credits toward a VT degree come from an accredited school and a limit on how many can come from community colleges. I'd be interested if anyone knows what's normal here.
 
I posted in another thread that this is purely a money grab by CU. They routinely don't count credits unless required by the state to do so. Even for classes that are functionally the same, but don't have identical curriculum. This has been going on since at least the mid 90's. And it affects all students, not just athletes. It needs to change, for the benefit of all students that are trying to obtain a degree.
 
LesGrossman said:
From Adam:

“
CU has evaluated multiple players heading into their third season (48 credits of PTD by fall of junior year) at another program and they will typically have between 20-40 transferable credits. Even if they are on the upper end of that with 40 credits, they would have to pass eight credits in the summer just to be eligible for the fall.

And they will then have to average at least 12 credits per semester for the rest of their college careers to maintain their eligibility. Shrout had to take 18 credits in one semester just to stay eligible.

A very small percentage of other Power 5 programs have to deal with similar academic restrictions, with Stanford and Vanderbilt being a couple others that do.

Any program that has a liberal studies or general studies major will probably not have similar restrictions. Duke and Michigan are a couple examples of a prestigious academic institution that has a liberal studies degree. And one example in the Pac-12, Cal can tout its academic prestige while getting pretty much any athlete in that they want.”
Click to expand...
1. what is PTD?
2. 12 credits per semester is the minimum at CU (and most every semester school I'm aware of) to be a full time student, a status which is already required at all schools to be a NCAA athlete. Either I'm confused on Adam's point, or this 12 credit hours piece is a red herring.
 
hokiehead said:
1. what is PTD?
2. 12 credits per semester is the minimum at CU (and most every semester school I'm aware of) to be a full time student, a status which is already required at all schools to be a NCAA athlete. Either I'm confused on Adam's point, or this 12 credit hours piece is a red herring.
Click to expand...
Progress toward degree.
NCAA requires 40%, 60%, 80% of required credits by the end of year 2, 3, and 4 to maintain eligibility for competition.
 
hokiehead said:
1. what is PTD?
2. 12 credits per semester is the minimum at CU (and most every semester school I'm aware of) to be a full time student, a status which is already required at all schools to be a NCAA athlete. Either I'm confused on Adam's point, or this 12 credit hours piece is a red herring.
Click to expand...
The issue is the way CU counts your credits from your previous institution. If you’re a junior at another school, CU will probably throw out enough of your credits to make you a sophomore and when they throw those credits, you fall below eligibility requirements
 
LesGrossman said:
From Adam:

“
CU has evaluated multiple players heading into their third season (48 credits of PTD by fall of junior year) at another program and they will typically have between 20-40 transferable credits. Even if they are on the upper end of that with 40 credits, they would have to pass eight credits in the summer just to be eligible for the fall.

And they will then have to average at least 12 credits per semester for the rest of their college careers to maintain their eligibility. Shrout had to take 18 credits in one semester just to stay eligible.

A very small percentage of other Power 5 programs have to deal with similar academic restrictions, with Stanford and Vanderbilt being a couple others that do.

Any program that has a liberal studies or general studies major will probably not have similar restrictions. Duke and Michigan are a couple examples of a prestigious academic institution that has a liberal studies degree. And one example in the Pac-12, Cal can tout its academic prestige while getting pretty much any athlete in that they want.”
Click to expand...
Thanks, I think we should jointly put together some real data comparing to our peers (Pac12 schools) as well as other FBS programs. Emphasize that we aren't looking to lower the academic reputation of the university (Phil has done that on his own), but looking to reduce self imposed restrictions. If those restrictions over the past 20+ years resulted in CU being viewed as a top tier academic school, then there is an argument to be made on why they are needed, but the fact is the restrictions handicap the athletic program while doing nothing to help the academic reputation. I know there were specific examples when Tucker was here of 2 JuCo DBs that committed and CU couldn't get in. They ended up going to Oregon St. At least 1 is now in the NFL.
 
It’s not just that. When you transfer in they review the syllabuses of the classes you have taken. They may or may not give you credit for that specific class. An example would be if you took a business statistics class at your previous school, they may apply that credit to math, business statistics or just a general elective credit based on how close the syllabus matches the one here at cu. Depending on what year you’re in when transferring in these decisions can make a big difference on your progress towards a degree. Furthermore if you’re transferring in from a school on the quarter system you will have partial credits. I believe those credits transfer over at a 0.7 per credit hour rate. I ended up being 0.3 credits short of graduating in the spring when I was done and needed to take an online essay course over the summer to get my diploma.

None of this is crazy unreasonable but it just makes transfers complicated. There is a huge subjective portion of it however that is ripe for debate. It also sounds like we are holding ourselves to standards on these rules that far more prestigious schools are not. My experience with it was that it seemed much more like the kangaroo court that the student affairs court is than a hard and fast science with inputs and outputs. I can easily see how the athletic department can feel they are being targeted by someone with subjective opinions with a vendetta.
 
Pbuffdiddy said:
Illusions of them believing they are as good or better than those institutions?
Click to expand...

Shldr2Shldr said:
It would be one thing if CU's academic ranking was on par with those universities. But it isn't. It's not close.
Click to expand...

This is not the reason. The reason is financial—to extract tuition dollars by forcing transfer students to pay for credits they have already earned at another institution.

This is how it should be framed—as a barrier to less wealthy students and a drag on diversity. Know your arguments and who you are trying to persuade.
 
Is there a possible loophole? I'm just completely spitballing so pardon me if this is a stupid idea but are the requirements less stringent for say, UCCS? Could a player transfer their credits to UCCS and then have their credits in the CU system and them transfer more easily to CU?
 
I posted before about CU not taking my brother's transfer credits.

They weren't liberal arts and it's hard to justify saying that credits from the Air Force Academy aren't academically on par.

This has been a problem for a long time but now is more significant and not just for athletics.
 
Shldr2Shldr said:
If we are holding ourselves to standards that even UCLA, Cal, Duke, Vanderbilt, USC, UVa, UF, etc. are not, then what are we doing?

CU's academic ranking has dropped since the time PD took over as chancellor. So what good are these stupid rules?
Click to expand...

Have our head up our own asses coupled with an over inflated sense of self importance.

PS: Sweeping and overall "academic rankings" are ****ing nonsense.
 
Last edited:
Sent this early this AM before this thread was created:

Hi Todd,

I am the Chair of the Denver chapter of the Forever Buffs. I appreciate the support you have provided in the trying times for the AD. It was nice to see that University is behind the proverbial front porch of the University and supports it when changes become inevitable.

With that being said, there is one consistent factor in our athletic downturn and slide over the last 2 decades. That is the Chancellor of the University of Colorado Phil DiStefano. He intervened and undermined Mike Bohn who has moved on and proved to be a very successful AD at both Cincinnati and the University of Southern California. Very successful. He has also been a huge part of the issues with Rick George's tenure as well. While he might have been a once very good faculty representative, his leadership, as demonstrated yesterday during the press conference surrounding the coach change, is way out of touch and inappropriate at best.

Mr. DiStefano should never have been involved in the press conference. He took what should have been a day of change and optimism for many Buffs fans and immediately made major mistakes again with his comments. To say that CU cannot get transfers into CU that many of our peers can is completely ludicrous. Basketball recruits that Tad Boyle could not get in were able to transfer to Wake Forest without issue. To think we have a better or higher academic standing than many of the institutions that regularly enroll transfer students is really a false elitist stance that really has no bearing. USC, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio St, Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Washington, and the list goes on. Schools with better academic standing than CU are able to do what CU apparently will not. This is an issue of will not vs can not. Plain and simple.

This is only one of the areas that needs improvement. CU should charge in-state tuition for every single student athlete on scholarship, not out of state. The AD should be moved out from under the Chancellor and report to the President's office. Enrollment window opportunities for student athletes. And many more changes that could benefit the AD and help enable success.

There is a window in front of you to make major, long term, positive changes that can set the AD up for long term success and create a legacy for yourself. I hope you are open to looking at the opportunity for what it is.

I am a longtime vested Buff who will be part of the change as well. If given the chance, I would be honored to tell you about my love affair with this great institution and am always open to being a part of the solution. I would only need an invitation.

Sincerely and Go Buffs!
 
GoBuffs08 said:
The transfer issues was a big sticking point for Tucker, and CU assured him they would get changes made so CU could compete. One year later and they were telling him making changes takes time.

If you are a athletic program that can't work the transfer portal you are doomed.
Click to expand...
It that's true, then CU Admin has gone from, "changes take time," to "this is not something that will change," at the press conference for "moving forward."
 
1. advocate for standardizing transfer credits to other peer groups. All AAU, all
p5, all P12 comparisons.
2. Advocate for relaxing current PTD to five years.
3. Advocate for integrated Studies degree. Admissions less critical than transfers.
4. don’t confuse the issue by mixing circumstances and solutions. Keep it simple.
5. don’t get into tit for tat with Phil. He doesn’t understand issues.
 
I watched the whole press conference, and it was very clear where the problems with CU football lie. I think RG is operating, as best he can mostly, within an administration that is a bunch of hard-nosed, pie-in-the-sky, my-way-or-high-way, delusional old men. I don't know anything about the new President, but I don't see how CU digs out of its hole within the present administrative system. There was no reason not to simply say, "we understand that the football program is going to have to go through a serious transition, and the administration will look into all aspects of its operations to see what we can do to help facilitate the process."

Instead, the word from 'on high' was simply, nothing needs to change on our side, we can find a small subset of student-athletes who will fit into our requirements, and the football program will have to find a way to make that work. That's not "moving forward," and it was a huge red flag to any prospective coach. RG had his legs cut out from under his search on the first day of the search.

Great work!
 
Last edited:
4BienemyTDs said:
Can we just work up a nice letter that we can all send to the Prez? I know that Form Letters are not ideal, but it would make some sense for all of us less savvy members.
Click to expand...
100% agree with this-
I think we need someone 'lawyer' like who can present the info with specific examples in a precise way without boring the recipient.
If said form letter can be posted then we can fire away with e-mails to Saliman. Should they also be sent to George ? I honestly think
Mr. Magoo DiStephano is the issue.
 
Saw on the Stanford board that USC nearly has as many transfer students on their football roster as Stanford has in its entire undergraduate population.

That said, they've got more believable reasons, IMO, to make it hard to transfer in. Couple it with a general disinterest of players who are minor recruiting misses (i.e., not contributing much but otherwise okay) to leave the school and thereby get a degree from somewhere other than Stanford, along with an inability to get most recruits in the first place, and their roster management is super difficult. As NIL and transferring have picked up, Stanford football has totally cratered.

For CU, I have no idea why we are doing this to ourselves- other than make more money from students.
 
Buffalo Brad said:
Sent this early this AM before this thread was created:

Hi Todd,

I am the Chair of the Denver chapter of the Forever Buffs. I appreciate the support you have provided in the trying times for the AD. It was nice to see that University is behind the proverbial front porch of the University and supports it when changes become inevitable.

With that being said, there is one consistent factor in our athletic downturn and slide over the last 2 decades. That is the Chancellor of the University of Colorado Phil DiStefano. He intervened and undermined Mike Bohn who has moved on and proved to be a very successful AD at both Cincinnati and the University of Southern California. Very successful. He has also been a huge part of the issues with Rick George's tenure as well. While he might have been a once very good faculty representative, his leadership, as demonstrated yesterday during the press conference surrounding the coach change, is way out of touch and inappropriate at best.

Mr. DiStefano should never have been involved in the press conference. He took what should have been a day of change and optimism for many Buffs fans and immediately made major mistakes again with his comments. To say that CU cannot get transfers into CU that many of our peers can is completely ludicrous. Basketball recruits that Tad Boyle could not get in were able to transfer to Wake Forest without issue. To think we have a better or higher academic standing than many of the institutions that regularly enroll transfer students is really a false elitist stance that really has no bearing. USC, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio St, Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Washington, and the list goes on. Schools with better academic standing than CU are able to do what CU apparently will not. This is an issue of will not vs can not. Plain and simple.

This is only one of the areas that needs improvement. CU should charge in-state tuition for every single student athlete on scholarship, not out of state. The AD should be moved out from under the Chancellor and report to the President's office. Enrollment window opportunities for student athletes. And many more changes that could benefit the AD and help enable success.

There is a window in front of you to make major, long term, positive changes that can set the AD up for long term success and create a legacy for yourself. I hope you are open to looking at the opportunity for what it is.

I am a longtime vested Buff who will be part of the change as well. If given the chance, I would be honored to tell you about my love affair with this great institution and am always open to being a part of the solution. I would only need an invitation.

Sincerely and Go Buffs!
Click to expand...

A random person's beliefs about what drives policy at CU (whether accurate or not) are irrelevant and often harmful. In what world is it persuasive to call the President or Chancellor of a university "a false elitist?"

I get it. Many people cannot get past their own biases, even when it's necessary to make a persuasive argument. It's fine for anyone to shake their fist at the perceived "false elitism" of the academy in general and CU in particular, but it's not going to move anyone involved in that institution. What will move them is framing the issue as a challenge to economic and racial diversity--something important in their sphere and something they must at least pretend to address. CU's transfer policy effectively makes it more expensive for transfer students (athletes or not) to attend CU as opposed to other, peer institutions.
 
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