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Embree Presser Today
- Thread starter Darth Snow
- Start date
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
somebody
Well-Known Member
You seem to be arguing with yourself. I think your first point is tougher to overcome than your last quoted point, as far as translating into Ws.
Had it worse in that he had talent, but the Barney players hated him. He sat a lot of talented players to make his case to have them buy in. Embree is sitting some guys because of the same issue, but they aren't nearly as talented. Some similarities, but there are plenty of hawks guys that won't be missed when they graduate or leave.
We had some talented guys that played in 05 sit in 06. I'm not sure what happened with qb play, but it seems like hawk was lining things up for Cody. That probably caused some turmoil in the locker room as well. A lot of Barney's guys were playing for themselves and for the university. That defense was ****ing good though and kept us in a lot of games. We were north champs the year before and we couldn't beat msu? Yeah, we backed into it in 05, but it was like the team was a 2-10 type of team. Few coaches would have our current guys in a bowl and embree is green at this hc gig.
We had some talented guys that played in 05 sit in 06. I'm not sure what happened with qb play, but it seems like hawk was lining things up for Cody. That probably caused some turmoil in the locker room as well. A lot of Barney's guys were playing for themselves and for the university. That defense was ****ing good though and kept us in a lot of games. We were north champs the year before and we couldn't beat msu? Yeah, we backed into it in 05, but it was like the team was a 2-10 type of team. Few coaches would have our current guys in a bowl and embree is green at this hc gig.
I'd still say its harder to manage people than talent issues UNTIL you get to the elite levels like LSU or Bama and you have to be great at both. A lot of guys have failed at those places and Texas and Oklahoma. Texas shouldn't have a problem where they get pushed around due to their speed or size. They shouldn't have horrible qb play because of politics. Managing the egos of blue chips is a lot harder than we all probably think. I also think that's a reason why Boise has a lot of success. It's easier to keep 2 and 3 star players in check than a prima donna 5 stars and they can redshirt them and play in slop time, but that's a different matter.
All phases matter, I just think this is where embree needs to work on. For our sake, I hope he gets there sooner than later. The guy knows the game. He's been involved in football for twenty years. I don't question his knowledge about the game.
In retrospect, that is exactly what HaLk was doing, setting the table for his little boy. HaLk inherited way more talent than Embo. TWheat, JJBillingsley, Ryan Walters, Brad Jones, Jordon Dizon, Abe Wright, Nicolas, Hypolite, Boye-Doe, Burney, Polumbus, Tipton, Fenton, Daniels, Harrison, Charles, Crosby....every one of those guys would be starting for this team. TWheat, Dizon, Crosby, Jones and Polumbus all played in the NFL, can you think of five guys on this roster who will be in the League? I can't.
HaLk was a effing disaster on every level. I am tired of hearing people say, and this isn't directed at you NM, HaLk had a lesser stable of talent than Embo. That is complete BS IMO, Embo has been dealt a much worse hand than the Boise idot.
Under a defense oriented coach at that time we would have go e bowling in 06 and 07 and maybe 08. Those players saw through his bull**** before we could. Some of our current guys need to realize that while Embree may not be the answer, but he knows football and what it takes to win. We do need talent though. That doesn't really explain a lot of the stuff we've seen this year because we should have beaten wsu and cal and it should have been closer against Havaieee of not a W. those things will need to be addressed in the offseason somehow. It's not like we believed we were going to be MNCs. Nmsu beat Fresno this year in a shoot out for the first time ever. We better beat them or I might be off the wagon completely.
I am more critical of embree because we all gave hawk a free pass for montana state and the like. R,ember, we trounced a good TT that year. Are you ****ting me and we lose to MSU and, I believe, CSU? He didn't have to accept the position and while he's not making huge money, he is still paid very handsomely given the results. Not good for a coach, but still.
I am more critical of embree because we all gave hawk a free pass for montana state and the like. R,ember, we trounced a good TT that year. Are you ****ting me and we lose to MSU and, I believe, CSU? He didn't have to accept the position and while he's not making huge money, he is still paid very handsomely given the results. Not good for a coach, but still.
I believe our expectations should temper for the growth of this program. Remember that, given attrition and scholarship signing limits, we will not have a team of 85 scholarship players for another three years.
We will likely lose to Utah, so we should expect a growth in our win curve like this...
2011: 2-11
2012: Anywhere from 3-5 wins
2013: Anywhere from 4-8 wins
2014: Anywhere from 5-9 wins
2015: Anywhere from 7-10 wins
2016: 8-9+ wins. No excuses.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't expect growth. We just shouldn't expect crazy growth from year to year. Our team is being leveled. Many losing seniors are leaving the program in favor of true/RS/sophomore players as the core of the team. As we gain more experience AND depth, we will get better. If we don't, then go in a different coaching direction.
However, we have asked Embo and his staff to completely change the culture and style of Colorado football. It took longer than one year for everything to implode. It'll take at least as long for it to be rebuilt.
We will likely lose to Utah, so we should expect a growth in our win curve like this...
2011: 2-11
2012: Anywhere from 3-5 wins
2013: Anywhere from 4-8 wins
2014: Anywhere from 5-9 wins
2015: Anywhere from 7-10 wins
2016: 8-9+ wins. No excuses.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't expect growth. We just shouldn't expect crazy growth from year to year. Our team is being leveled. Many losing seniors are leaving the program in favor of true/RS/sophomore players as the core of the team. As we gain more experience AND depth, we will get better. If we don't, then go in a different coaching direction.
However, we have asked Embo and his staff to completely change the culture and style of Colorado football. It took longer than one year for everything to implode. It'll take at least as long for it to be rebuilt.
rodrigo
Well-Known Member
Now that's some interesting logic there.
While your points are sane and valid, I'm sick of losing. Success next year is 3-5 wins? Probably so, but still ridiculous. Then your 2013 has between 4 and 8 wins. That is a huge range. If we are on the 4 win side we are moving in the wrong direction.
buffalo30
Well-Known Member
You are right on, lefty. I can't imagine some folks don't believe it. You can't retrain guys that had 3 and 4 years of the previous coach. I suppose you could do it in a couple of months of R. Lee Ermey boot camp, but college isn't boot camp. It is going to take turnover. The team will turn over a considerable number at the end of this year. Something might happen next season that wasn't going to happen this season.
Yup, I just can't let that one go.
Manhattanbeachbuff, I do not disagree that some patience is needed, but your wide range of win totals each season is a pretty weird standard. For example, 5-9 wins in 2014? A year in which Embree will have lots upperclassmen that are "his guys"? There is a huge difference between 5 wins and 9 wins.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
\
Right bro? If this season has proven anything, it's that CU will win 9 games next year
2014: 5-9 wins? 2015: 7-10 wins? You do know how big of a difference there is between 5 wins and 9 wins or 7 wins or 10 wins right?
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
His point that this will likely be a long process is completely correct. That said, if we only win 4 games in 2013, I'm not sure the patience will be there to let it continue, right or wrong.
Pretty much the point. He gave huge discrepancies for each year for the wins total. In 2013 we better be in a bowl game or Embree's gone, especially with the easier schedules. The process isn't going to happen overnight but it's not going to take four years to get to seven wins as the expectation.
ugh, as much as I hate juicebox, he was NOT favoring or doing everything he could to benefit his son... sorry. He was inept, over his head, etc etc I can go on. But Cody was imo the best QB on the team and if others disagree it wasn't much of a difference between Tyler and him. Cody shouldve never came here and maybe we coulda recruited a good to great QB but, on our roster... Cody was the best we had. It wasn't some conspiracy theory.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
Something like:
2012: 4-8
2013: 6-6 + bowl game
2014: 8-4 competing for South Div
...is probably the most likely scenario. This 2012 class, which is solid but leaving something to be desired at certain positions thus far, will only be Juniors/RS Sophomores heading into 2014. Going to be a long process. Connor Wood can help us accelerate this and I'm optimistic about the upgrade he'll provide us at QB, but standing out on the practice fields compared to our current lot of other QB's doesn't mean much.
We have a shot to go 5-7 next year with our schedule if Wood turns out to be as good as advertised. We have a good chance to start off 3-0 and have some winnable home games next year.
I'd say:
2012: 5-7
2013: 6-6 or 7-5
2014: 8-4
2015: 10-2
Yeah, everyone being pissed at recruiting is an idot to me... what do you expect with a 2-11/3-10 team, honestly we will likely have an above average recruiting class for such a record. The key is to get players that fit the system and depth, stop expecting top 30 classes until we start winning, does Embree need to do that? Yes. But will it take more than one year? Yes. Come on guys, be realistic, we have no talent and for most 18 year olds we are about equal with Indiana, Northwestern, Iowa State, etc. I feel this is a very solid recruiting class that can change the attitude and depth for the better. It IS going to be a long process, but we cannot fool ourselves and think it can't be turned around overnight, Embree is not Saban, and CU is not Alabama... give it time.
My logic
Hello everyone,
I had some events happen here at work and came back to a ton of responses!
Yes, there is a big divide in my original chart. Given the mitigating circumstances I described in the previous post (big attrition/lack of full scholarship team until three more years; lack of depth; very young players playing in starting and important back up roles; etc) we should not expect huge gains in the win department. Instead, as realists, we should expect our team to win one to three more games per year than they did in the previous year of development. Hence, we'd have a divide that gets pretty big.
2011: 2-11
2012: Anywhere from 3-5 wins
2013: Anywhere from 4-8 wins
2014: Anywhere from 5-9 wins
2015: Anywhere from 7-10 wins
2016: 8-9+ wins. No excuses.
Especially in years 2013, 2014, and 2015, that's when I expect to see the biggest swings. While I don't expect us to be bowl eligible until we can field a team with 80+ scholarship players, I grant that it would be nice to do so. Where we trend will depend more on who we play, when we play them, health, etc. Even though we currently have a two win team, y'all do realize that a bye and a couple of lucky bounces could've made us into a four or a five win team this year? We did not win those games because we did not get the lucky bounces. We did not close out some of those games. The Cal and Wazzu games seem to be particularly clear here. What does the Hawaii game look like if we had more of that 3rd Quarter Swagger?
Look -- I get it that we don't WANT to be patient. But, I will harp on this point... this rebuilding time is what Mac told us would be the process. His solution may have been flawed to have him take the heat and have the current in charge guys take over for him. We probably didn't realize coming in just how badly Hawk ****ed this program up. It's going to take a long effing time to rebuild it. I want to make sure that the foundation is right before we get uppity about winning when we haven't done anything to justify it.
Hello everyone,
I had some events happen here at work and came back to a ton of responses!
Yes, there is a big divide in my original chart. Given the mitigating circumstances I described in the previous post (big attrition/lack of full scholarship team until three more years; lack of depth; very young players playing in starting and important back up roles; etc) we should not expect huge gains in the win department. Instead, as realists, we should expect our team to win one to three more games per year than they did in the previous year of development. Hence, we'd have a divide that gets pretty big.
2011: 2-11
2012: Anywhere from 3-5 wins
2013: Anywhere from 4-8 wins
2014: Anywhere from 5-9 wins
2015: Anywhere from 7-10 wins
2016: 8-9+ wins. No excuses.
Especially in years 2013, 2014, and 2015, that's when I expect to see the biggest swings. While I don't expect us to be bowl eligible until we can field a team with 80+ scholarship players, I grant that it would be nice to do so. Where we trend will depend more on who we play, when we play them, health, etc. Even though we currently have a two win team, y'all do realize that a bye and a couple of lucky bounces could've made us into a four or a five win team this year? We did not win those games because we did not get the lucky bounces. We did not close out some of those games. The Cal and Wazzu games seem to be particularly clear here. What does the Hawaii game look like if we had more of that 3rd Quarter Swagger?
Look -- I get it that we don't WANT to be patient. But, I will harp on this point... this rebuilding time is what Mac told us would be the process. His solution may have been flawed to have him take the heat and have the current in charge guys take over for him. We probably didn't realize coming in just how badly Hawk ****ed this program up. It's going to take a long effing time to rebuild it. I want to make sure that the foundation is right before we get uppity about winning when we haven't done anything to justify it.
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**** all this projecting 2016 ****, with our schedule next year, we should at least be competing for a ****** bowl birth. Im not 5 star locking it but its something we should have a shot at.
Highlander27
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with what Embree said in the presser. I think he's taken an EXTREMELY cerebral approach to these kids, game by game, and nothing has worked. Like leading a horse to water as the saying goes. The 1st two minutes was telling to me. Senior leadership is really where this ship is rudderless. We have guys who talk to the media but definitely don't talk with their play, outside of say Stewart and Clemons the past two months of the season. The rest? Nope. Deehan not only fails to catch a ball hitting him right in his face mask, he bats it to UCLA which intercepts it, and then gets a 15 yard face mask. I don't know if I've ever seen a worse play across the board than right there by a player. It's EXACTLY the problem with this team. So unclutch, so incapable of handling any form of adversity. This schedule absolutely pulverized a bunch of weak-minded kids and you're just not going to win playing unproven freshmen and sophomores vs. opposing teams which have great seniors/leadership.
Embree and Co. definitely don't get a pass from me but i've been around the game long enough to see what a few POS in the locker room can do to a team, along with ZERO natural leaders.
Hit that recruiting trail Embree, i'm ready for some positivity to be hoisted back on the program, hoping recruiting can deliver it.
Embree and Co. definitely don't get a pass from me but i've been around the game long enough to see what a few POS in the locker room can do to a team, along with ZERO natural leaders.
Hit that recruiting trail Embree, i'm ready for some positivity to be hoisted back on the program, hoping recruiting can deliver it.
Highlander27
Well-Known Member
I don't see why we couldn't compete for a bowl next year:
@Fresno (end the road losing streak? HOPEFULLY?)
I-AA Squad, maybe Weber State
CSU
@USC
@U of A
@WSU
@Oregon
UCLA
ASU
UW
Stanford
Utah
@Fresno (end the road losing streak? HOPEFULLY?)
I-AA Squad, maybe Weber State
CSU
@USC
@U of A
@WSU
@Oregon
UCLA
ASU
UW
Stanford
Utah