Facilities....I was afraid of this...

[tante]

I'm not sure I continue to agree with this often told myth. Excuses are the nails used to build a house of failure.

Wisconsin and Michigan have gone through big budgetary problems. Their alumnus flee the rust belts of Milwaukee and Detroit for better economic opportunities in the southwest. Higher ed funding has taken a major hit in both of these states. Both also compete with NFL and pro sports options.

I wanted to look at your statement a bit and it looks like 40% of Wisconsin alumni still live in Wisconsin. I couldn't find any numbers for Colorado, but I find it hard to believe that 40% of alumni still live in state.

http://www.uwalumni.com/home/chaptersandaffiliates/microsites/150/alumni_geo.aspx

but I think the state of Wisconsin embraces the school more than the state of Colorado embraces CU. They take pride in the school and the sports teams. I don't know if you can track how much fans love a team, but I think that merchandise sales are a pretty good metric (you can also use attendance or revenue) and Wisconsin was 16th in 2010 (two spots behind Nebraska, who are insane when it comes to buying gear).

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...o-schools-in-merchandise-sales/1#.UNy50eSx__M

Colorado didn't make the above list.

Now if you want to look at revenue. Wisconsin blows CU away. Their athletic department was 8th in NCAA making $95 million in 2008 (CU made $52 million).

ticket sales: $27 million to $14.8 million
donations: $18.7 million to $12.6 million
univeristy: $3.3 million to $6 million
media rights: $5.5 million to $700k
branding: $2.7 million to $3.5 million

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue

what messes up my head is branding. Do we get that much more with Nike than Wisco does with Adidas?

 

[BlackNGold]

I wanted to look at your statement a bit and it looks like 40% of Wisconsin alumni still live in Wisconsin. I couldn't find any numbers for Colorado, but I find it hard to believe that 40% of alumni still live in state.

http://www.uwalumni.com/home/chaptersandaffiliates/microsites/150/alumni_geo.aspx

but I think the state of Wisconsin embraces the school more than the state of Colorado embraces CU. They take pride in the school and the sports teams. I don't know if you can track how much fans love a team, but I think that merchandise sales are a pretty good metric (you can also use attendance or revenue) and Wisconsin was 16th in 2010 (two spots behind Nebraska, who are insane when it comes to buying gear).

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...o-schools-in-merchandise-sales/1#.UNy50eSx__M

Colorado didn't make the above list.

Now if you want to look at revenue. Wisconsin blows CU away. Their athletic department was 8th in NCAA making $95 million in 2008 (CU made $52 million).

ticket sales: $27 million to $14.8 million
donations: $18.7 million to $12.6 million
univeristy: $3.3 million to $6 million
media rights: $5.5 million to $700k
branding: $2.7 million to $3.5 million

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/revenue

what messes up my head is branding. Do we get that much more with Nike than Wisco does with Adidas?

I think a couple of things have happened over the years to disconnect CU from the local populace (meaning outside of Boulder)...the implementation of the Danish plan in the 70s and the heavy emphasis on out of state students. I know in the 60s when you went around the state people were rabid about CU.

I think you have to look beyond alumni though. People around Nebraska are rabid cornhusker fans even if they do not go to NU---ditto for a lot of other states.

 

[WizzersGhost]

. [Wisc. and Mich] Both also compete with NFL and pro sports options.

Oklahoma has a lot of OOS alumni in Texas. Florida grads flee to Atlanta.

. The same legislative rules apply in Aurora as they do in Boulder.

I am tired of this old narrative about the donors being the problem. The right leadership team with the right message and right strategy would never have allowed CU football to face plant over the past ten years. All donors did during this plummet was continue to fill Folsom.

The pro franchises in those two states don't even come close to the Broncos or Rox.

OU and FLA grads may flee but they still send checks! Check out the US News annual reports on colleges, they report percentage of grads contributing back and CU always shows up at 10% at best. Other state schools double that.

The face plant in Boulder always revolved around two things: 1) money or lack thereof and 2) long-standing issues with CU as an arrogant bunch run by a Boulder mafia, who considered it a privilege to drive up and watch the Buffs play. This infected the media and fan relations for years! Bohn was the first AD who was not "in-house" and he has to overcome both these factors to even begin to address the FB screw-up started by Tharp (Neweasle) and thoroughly compounded by GB.

 

[Deleted member 807]

I wanted to look at your statement a bit and it looks like 40% of Wisconsin alumni still live in Wisconsin.

Now if you want to look at revenue. Wisconsin blows CU away. Their athletic department was 8th in NCAA making $95 million in 2008 (CU made $52 million).

ticket sales: $27 million to $14.8 million
donations: $18.7 million to $12.6 million
univeristy: $3.3 million to $6 million
media rights: $5.5 million to $700k
branding: $2.7 million to $3.5 million

Wisconsin is a good measuring stick for Colorado; a much better comparison versus industrustrial & population behemoths like California or Texas. Both schools are the flagships of their state, are located in progressive college towns and have traditionally winning programs that are a step behind the top two or three dominant conference schools, yet both manage to win their respective conferences one a periodic basis.

Population
Colo 5.2 million. 22nd
Wisc 5.7 million. 20th

Median household income
Colo $57K
Wisc $47K

Colo. Wisc
White. 70.0% 86.2%
Black. 4.0% 6.3%
Hispanic. 20.7% 5.9%
Other. 5.3% 1.6%

University. Colo. Wisc
Undergrads. 24.8k. 28.7K
Graduate. 5.1k. 9.4K
Instate Tuition $3.9K. $5.1K
oos tuition. $20.3K. $19.2K
Endowment $785m $1.87B

 

[sackman]

I think a couple of things have happened over the years to disconnect CU from the local populace (meaning outside of Boulder)...the implementation of the Danish plan in the 70s and the heavy emphasis on out of state students. I know in the 60s when you went around the state people were rabid about CU.

I think you have to look beyond alumni though. People around Nebraska are rabid cornhusker fans even if they do not go to NU---ditto for a lot of other states.

I blame the Danish plan on the overall unravelling of our entire society, so I think you're on to something here.

 

[WizzersGhost]

Danish Plan? All those flaky, buttery pastries will turn everyone obese!

 

[prime teets]

]The pro franchises in those two states don't even come close to the Broncos or Rox.[/B]

OU and FLA grads may flee but they still send checks! Check out the US News annual reports on colleges, they report percentage of grads contributing back and CU always shows up at 10% at best. Other state schools double that.

The face plant in Boulder always revolved around two things: 1) money or lack thereof and 2) long-standing issues with CU as an arrogant bunch run by a Boulder mafia, who considered it a privilege to drive up and watch the Buffs play. This infected the media and fan relations for years! Bohn was the first AD who was not "in-house" and he has to overcome both these factors to even begin to address the FB screw-up started by Tharp (Neweasle) and thoroughly compounded by GB.

i can't name another state that supports their football more than the packers, unfortunately.

 

[Buffellow85]

Danish Plan? All those flaky, buttery pastries will turn everyone obese!

http://www.bouldercoloradousa.com/about-boulder/green-lifestyle/

 

[Alfred91]

I married into a family of UW grads. I can tell you that their priorities are as follows: Packers, Packers, Packers, Badger football, Packers, Packer, Badger basketball.

BUT, Wisconsin is not a state full of transplants. CO is. If you go to Wisconsin, people who never went to UW will still care about how UW does, because they've lived in Wisconsin most of their lives. As I'm sure most CO natives of my generation (to say nothing of previous generations) will tell you, we're a pretty small minority. When I was a kid, the population was roughly half what it is now. I very rarely meet natives over the age of 30 anymore. You see it in car stickers, hats/shirts/jerseys worn by people all over the Front Range, and the way CU (and CSU) is portrayed in the media in CO. That makes for a big difference in the general relevance of the university among the overall population. It's easy to see why UW has a much higher level of support than CU does.

 

[slider]

If CU wasn't in Boulder, or if Boulder wasn't so "hippy/liberal" than we would get a lot more support

 

[Alfred91]

I disagree. That's a copout, imo. This state is chock-full of people who aren't going to support CU no matter what. They either don't care about college sports, they don't care about football/basketball in general, or they care much more about the teams they support "back home" than they do CU. If they're saying anything about "hippies", they're just looking for an excuse.

 

[sackman]

CU has 30,000 undergrads. Future fans, season ticket holders and donors are right there. CU does an abysmal job of cultivating a dedicated fan base. Instead, they treat them like cattle. It's criminal.

 

[gobuffs58]

comparing the wisco and cu athletic programs right now is like comparing lexus vs yugo.... sorry gang thats just the way it is

 

[Dark Bohner]

CU has 30,000 undergrads. Future fans, season ticket holders and donors are right there. CU does an abysmal job of cultivating a dedicated fan base. Instead, they treat them like cattle. It's criminal.

Please press charges then.

 

[sackman]

Please press charges then.

Unfortunately, there isn't a law against treating your customers like sh!t. The results of doing so are evident, though.

 

[MtnBuff]

In many ways Wisconsin and Colorado are comparable but in many other very significant ways they are not even close.

Wisconsin is one of those states where most of the people that live there have strong roots there, the Packers and the Badgers are a part of the identity and there aren't a lot of other things there to distract peoples attention.

Better examples of comparisons are Cal, Udub, and Oregon along with the Zona schools which exist in similar situations to CU. Throw out Oregon due to the Phil Knight factor but the others are comparable. Populations that in large part come from other places, lots of competing recreational and entertainment opportunities, varying amounts of political support for the schools, etc.


What is different is that each of these schools has completed significant facilities upgrades and developed stronger donor bases than CU has over the past couple of decades. I am much less on the "inside" than lots of others here but my impression is that CU has dropped the ball compared to similar institutions. We are never going to be a Texas with higher revenues than every other school or a Nebraska with the university as the social focal point of the entire state. At the same time we can be much more effective and successful both on and off the field (which are related) both athletically and academically than we currently are. Based on other similar schools sources of support exist that are not being effectively developed.


This all means that we either have to work harder at it and be more effective with the resources we have or we have to decide to be content with being a bottom feeder hanging on the tail end of our conference and being an afterthought in the college football world. I like Mike Bohn and think he has done a pretty good job considering who he has for bosses but I also agree that the time has come to either put forward a stronger vision and defined plan or to cut bait and go another direction. What we are doing now is only putting us further behind.

 

[Junction]

I blame the Danish plan on the overall unravelling of our entire society, so I think you're on to something here.

As the grandson of a Danish immigrant, and having spent some time with the Danish relatives, I can safely say that any attempt to implement the Danish plan to ruin our society would have fallen apart when the Danes had to stop 4-5 times a day for "coffee", which would include a full 5 course dinner.....

 

[dio]

In many ways Wisconsin and Colorado are comparable but in many other very significant ways they are not even close.

Wisconsin is one of those states where most of the people that live there have strong roots there, the Packers and the Badgers are a part of the identity and there aren't a lot of other things there to distract peoples attention.

Better examples of comparisons are Cal, Udub, and Oregon along with the Zona schools which exist in similar situations to CU. Throw out Oregon due to the Phil Knight factor but the others are comparable. Populations that in large part come from other places, lots of competing recreational and entertainment opportunities, varying amounts of political support for the schools, etc.


What is different is that each of these schools has completed significant facilities upgrades and developed stronger donor bases than CU has over the past couple of decades. I am much less on the "inside" than lots of others here but my impression is that CU has dropped the ball compared to similar institutions. We are never going to be a Texas with higher revenues than every other school or a Nebraska with the university as the social focal point of the entire state. At the same time we can be much more effective and successful both on and off the field (which are related) both athletically and academically than we currently are. Based on other similar schools sources of support exist that are not being effectively developed.


This all means that we either have to work harder at it and be more effective with the resources we have or we have to decide to be content with being a bottom feeder hanging on the tail end of our conference and being an afterthought in the college football world. I like Mike Bohn and think he has done a pretty good job considering who he has for bosses but I also agree that the time has come to either put forward a stronger vision and defined plan or to cut bait and go another direction. What we are doing now is only putting us further behind.

So you're saying there may be some similarities between the two states, and there might also be some differences that we have to account for?

Good point

 

[Walter White]

In many ways Wisconsin and Colorado are comparable but in many other very significant ways they are not even close.

Wisconsin is one of those states where most of the people that live there have strong roots there, the Packers and the Badgers are a part of the identity and there aren't a lot of other things there to distract peoples attention.

Better examples of comparisons are Cal, Udub, and Oregon along with the Zona schools which exist in similar situations to CU. Throw out Oregon due to the Phil Knight factor but the others are comparable. Populations that in large part come from other places, lots of competing recreational and entertainment opportunities, varying amounts of political support for the schools, etc.


What is different is that each of these schools has completed significant facilities upgrades and developed stronger donor bases than CU has over the past couple of decades. I am much less on the "inside" than lots of others here but my impression is that CU has dropped the ball compared to similar institutions. We are never going to be a Texas with higher revenues than every other school or a Nebraska with the university as the social focal point of the entire state. At the same time we can be much more effective and successful both on and off the field (which are related) both athletically and academically than we currently are. Based on other similar schools sources of support exist that are not being effectively developed.


This all means that we either have to work harder at it and be more effective with the resources we have or we have to decide to be content with being a bottom feeder hanging on the tail end of our conference and being an afterthought in the college football world. I like Mike Bohn and think he has done a pretty good job considering who he has for bosses but I also agree that the time has come to either put forward a stronger vision and defined plan or to cut bait and go another direction. What we are doing now is only putting us further behind.

Excellent analysis. You are exactly right about cultural differences in Wisconsin and Neb.

I think the most comparable school for CU is Washington. It seems like they are doing a lot of things the right way, but that only shows how hard it is to get to a nine win kind of level. Much less maintaining that level. I think CU's base level of expectations should be to be on the right side of the .500 winning percentage. It doesn't sound like much, but it's not that easy when every school is working hard and spending millions. It's a zero sum game.

 

[Quattro]

Anything less than 7-5 average is unacceptable

 

[tante]

Excellent analysis. You are exactly right about cultural differences in Wisconsin and Neb.

I think the most comparable school for CU is Washington. It seems like they are doing a lot of things the right way, but that only shows how hard it is to get to a nine win kind of level. Much less maintaining that level. I think CU's base level of expectations should be to be on the right side of the .500 winning percentage. It doesn't sound like much, but it's not that easy when every school is working hard and spending millions. It's a zero sum game.

I feel like Washington gets more local support. Seattle has a higher density and a higher population. The school is located closer to downtown and they are building a mass transit stop right outside of the stadium. I wouldn't be surprised if support for both teams is equal as I would assume that Seattle has a high population of transplants.

 

[77buff]

Anything less than 7-5 average is unacceptable

That's something that will take some time to accomplish.

 

[BlackNGold]

I don't buy the transplant thing that much. A Lot of people move to Colorado and become die-hard Bronco fans. Only 40% of the existing season ticket holders are CU alums. CU just does a crummy job of reaching out to fans and getting them engaged. There is no one answer but CU could do more. There methods of notification are inconsistent and they seem to have varying lists. My brother gets notified of way more CU events than I do but our season tickets are in my name. Weird. I have purchased tables for both the recruiting luncheon and the kick-off luncheon in the past but I never get a notification of the events until the last minute. So if I want to buy a table I have to remember to go check to see when the sign up is open. It is little things but add up to ineffective connecting with the fans.

 

[MtnBuff]

I don't buy the transplant thing that much. A Lot of people move to Colorado and become die-hard Bronco fans. Only 40% of the existing season ticket holders are CU alums. CU just does a crummy job of reaching out to fans and getting them engaged. There is no one answer but CU could do more. There methods of notification are inconsistent and they seem to have varying lists. My brother gets notified of way more CU events than I do but our season tickets are in my name. Weird. I have purchased tables for both the recruiting luncheon and the kick-off luncheon in the past but I never get a notification of the events until the last minute. So if I want to buy a table I have to remember to go check to see when the sign up is open. It is little things but add up to ineffective connecting with the fans.

This is part of my point.

CU can be a significant player in the Colorado sports scene. Unlike some other places however it isn't going to "just happen." CU needs to have and implement a solid plan to put CU in the minds (and wallets) of the Colorado fans. The Broncos will always be #1 but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for CU to effectively be a major part of the conversation in this state. They just have to make it happen and it won't happen on it's own.

 

[gobuffs58]

I don't buy the transplant thing that much. A Lot of people move to Colorado and become die-hard Bronco fans. Only 40% of the existing season ticket holders are CU alums. CU just does a crummy job of reaching out to fans and getting them engaged. There is no one answer but CU could do more. There methods of notification are inconsistent and they seem to have varying lists. My brother gets notified of way more CU events than I do but our season tickets are in my name. Weird. I have purchased tables for both the recruiting luncheon and the kick-off luncheon in the past but I never get a notification of the events until the last minute. So if I want to buy a table I have to remember to go check to see when the sign up is open. It is little things but add up to ineffective connecting with the fans.

agree!... i have now donated over 3k a year for the past 4 years and have not gotton so much as a phone call from anyone over in the republic of boulder

 

[Deleted member 807]

I don't buy the transplant thing that much. A Lot of people move to Colorado and become die-hard Bronco fans. Only 40% of the existing season ticket holders are CU alums. CU just does a crummy job of reaching out to fans and getting them engaged. There is no one [silver bullet] but CU could do more. Thier methods of notification are inconsistent and they seem to have varying lists. It is little things but add up to ineffective connecting with the fans.

Once again I agree with you.

The excuses that CU fans roll out whenever we have these debates are predictable and rather pathetic. It's sad that how no matter how bad the recruiting or the on field performance or the coaching might be, it always boils down to being the fault of the fans. And the fans follow up with a miserable litany of excuses.

Here is a cringe-worthy honor roll of excuses often masquerading as fact:

1) Colorado is a state made up of transients who bring their loyalties with them

2) There are lots of recreational and entertainment options in Colorado that draw attention away from the Buffs

3) Colorado fans are cheap

4) The legislature and Tabor keep CU down.


My rebuttal:
1). The story of America involves transients. People move around a lot. Every western, southwestern city, as well as a few southern cities are made up of transients in levels similar to CU. You are going to have to show me census facts that compare transient rates between Denver-Boulder versus Los Angeles, the Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Boise, Salt Lake, Phoenix, Austin, Dallas or Atlanta. Guess what? People move around for their jobs. This is not unique to Denver/Boulder.

2) Colorado has no beach and no ocean. The entire west coast has ocean AND mountains. Everywhere has golf, hunting, fishing, boating, camping, movies, museums, shopping, bowling, grilling, beer, satellite TV, dogs, family, and a multitude of activities that compete with football. Nearly everybody has access to an airport that can take people to the beach or to the resort or to Disneyland or Hawaii or Europe. This includes people in Alabama, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Nebraska.

3) Aspen, Boulder, Vail, Douglas County, Cherry Creek, and areas around Evergreen and Colo Springs are very well off, and rate amongst cities with the best standard of living in the nation. Thousands of Colorado homes cost over $500,000 and over a million dollars. Residents in Colorado's premier neighborhoods include business owners, land owners, people who have access to cash to buy nice things and live well. No way Coloradoans are less well off than residents in most SEC states.

4) Explain how CU got around the legislature and Tabor to build the Anshutz Medical Campus. This is a massive $4B investment that was made possible with public and private donations. The statutes limiting contact employees applies at the Medical Center just like at the Dal Ward. When CU leadership really wants to do something, it gets done.

Its rediculous to blame the Dal Ward construction and East Luxury Box financing on cheap fans without also pointing out that the leadership at the time didn't do the necesary planning to execute a best in class capital campaign.

The bottom line is that when people up and down an organization from the President to the ticket holder are on the same page pushing in the same direction great things can happen. Where there are excuses for failure, a lack of vision, low levels of trust and transparency and no accountability, then failure will follow.

We can believe that CU can succeed or CU will fail. Either way, we'd be correct.

 

[DBT]

We wouldn't have put facilities in the contract if we didn't have something in place.

 

[Walter White]

CU, apparently, could do a better job with alums, but that doesn't change the fact that CU is fighting uphill when other schools are not. CU sits in the vast expanse of a football recruiting desert; however CU does not enjoy the full-force support from the state like other schools who are also isolated, like Neb and Wisconsin.

 

[MtnBuff]

We can believe that CU can succeed or CU will fail. Either way, we'd be correct.

CU has been successful in the past and can be successful in the future. We will never be one of those schools that dominates the sports scene in our state but we don't have to be to be successful both financially and competitively.

My point is unlike some places CU has to have a plan and work for that success, nothing is going to be given to CU just for showing up.

The school/athletic department have to take some serious steps investing the time, money, and effort to make athletics successful and to benefit the entire school.

1. They have to be much more effective a communication and responding to the concerns of those who are already donating and supporting the programs. When I hear people say that they have donated any amount of money much less in the 4, 5, 6, figure ranges and have not heard appropriate thanks or been provided with information that would lead them to believe that the money is being used wisely and in a positive manner it makes me wonder WTF is going on. Every business that is successful knows that it is easier and more effective to keep an existing customer than to generate new ones.

2. Indentify alums and other potentially interested donors and encourage them to start a habit of donating and developing an attachment for the program. If someone in their 20's can be developed as a $25.00 or $50.00 a year donor and feel like they are a part of something the school wins. If most of the donation goes toward the cost of generating it and supporting it you still have a winning situation. These people have their income potential in front of them. handle it right and 10 years down the road the $25.00 becomes $250.00 and another 10 years later it can become $2500.00. Take a long term view.

3. Invest in facilities and programs. Nothing generates positive publicity for the school like winning programs. Even the teams playing in minor bowls couldn't buy the attention and publicity they are recieving as a result. Give your supporters something to be proud of, something to talk about around the water cooler or in the clubhouse.

4. Be fan friendly. Tickets sold are revenue produced. Get fans in the seats and you have better access to their wallets. Make buying tickets friendly and easy, treat your renewing ticket buyers like you really care, make buying tickets and getting information for new purchasers as simple and available as possible.

In short, stop selling and start marketing. Recognize the wants and desires of your target market and satisfy those wants and desires. Do this and all the other challenges won't matter. The program will never take the place of the Broncos but it doesn't have to, it just has to reach it's potential, and it is grossly short of that now.