Discussion in 'Colorado Football Message Board' started by Daaah, Nov 1, 2008.
After the season, after signing day, now?
Which assistants are after which recruits?
Get rid of the whole bunch now and beat the Christmas rush.
Hey, shouldn't you be watching your football game, and worrying about your team's staff? It's 11:26 remaining in the first quarter, the huskers are down 14 to 0 and just committed their 2nd turnover. Sounds like a well-coached team.
28-0 but who's counting
Hawk needs to make a statement RIGHT NOW that he is serious about winning... I am so ****ing sick of the excuses... were young, were hurt, we need to polish the offense. Get the **** off of it. Look at CSU. Guys without the talent that most of our guys have in their pinkies... Taking BYU to the final minute. They are better because they ****ing coach at CSU with half the talent and look what they almost did tonight... I'm sick of it, if Hawk feels his loyalty to his assistants is more important than his football team then all I have to say is...:wave2:
He needs to start firing guys now, and it's not like it's going to hurt recruiting because if you haven't noticed... not moving very fast as it is.
PS-Barnett was fired because he couldn't recruit. But what good is recruiting when you can't coach yourself back to your own house?
I have been a Hawk supporter from day one, i have tried to stay positive but only putting 17 up on the worst defense in the big 12 and seeing what CSU has done in 7 weeks makes me... issed3:
Doing it right now is not going to work. Take for instance, Helfrich. You fire him now, and who is going to coach Hansen as he tries to navigate his way through the rest of the season?
What Hawk can do is think about giving someone else the playcalling duties. Just a thought though.
Sad, sad day.
I think CSU does show us the level of coaches that are on the CU staff right now. That team is EXTREMELY BARE this year. Coaches were quoted in the beginning of the year saying that their team (CSU that is) had very little talent this season. But, hell, look what that staff is doing.
Come on now, CSU has competed with BOTH BYU and TCU!!! That team is 4-5, who would have thought?? I'm just saying, the coaching staff at CU is looking like a joke right now.
He won't make changes... he just won't. But if we can all see it through a fruckin' radio, it amazes me that Hawk can't see it right in front of him.
You get an A+ on your assessment
2HellNback, you're right, I don't know if Hawk is willing to fire friends. That's the crappy part about football, and why you can't always surround yourself with guys that are THAT close.
I'm not saying you can't bring in guys that you have some familiarity with, but you can't give positions out to guys that are friends. I don't care if he has been with those guys from the start, if they don't have Big 12 ability he has to let them go.
Worst thing is, it's been said that Hawk felt that some of them didn't have the experience or the COMMITTMENT to coach at the Big 12 level, but made them promise to become more committed and work harder to improve. WOW, is all I have to say. Sorry, this is not a middle school dating game, this is high level college football. You can be a friendly guy and give your guys a chance, but you better be able to recognize that you are sacraficing yourself as well.
Everyone who knows me knows that there isn't anyone more fond of Hawk than I... But if he is more worried about losing a friend or two than his job than he isn't cut out to coach at this level. I hate to use this example, but if Bill Callahan had been willing to fire his friends he might still be the coach at NU
I really don't understand how any of you dudes are comparing CU's situation to CSU's.
Apples and Oranges
They would be 1 and 8 with this schedule and circumstances
Exactly! I'm curious why Hawk himself doesn't call a play or two. Exactly what does he do on the sideline during a game? He doesn't call plays. He doesn't seem to really motivate or come down on the players when the time calls for it. What does he do during the game then?
Last night during the NU game, a frosh husker got a personal foul penalty and Bo was right in his face obviously having some harsh words. I'm not saying he needs to be like Bobby Knight was at TT and throw **** and be crazy, but for the love of f-ing god, show just a smidge of god damn emotion once in a while.
I think Helfrich is not the guy for this team, and this level of competition. You cannot run a friggen end around over and over that doesn't gain anything but 5-7 yards, yet a screen pass tha goes for 20+ doesn't get called again. At what point does Hawk step in and say, this is the play we're running? When does he become the smashmouth, running coach we saw torch OU last year? The Oline arugement is bull**** at this point. How hard is it for a 300 lb hogmolly to push someone on the other side of him?
I wonder how much momemtum the program has lost over all. I mean, boosters, fanbase, media, and recruits that are now questioning DH and his ways.
I think alot of the gains DH has made in his first 2 yrs has been lost this season by the current state. From what I've read in the comments here, Netbuffs, local media, and response to those articles there seems to be a lot of dissent.
Depending on how next year goes, it might be DH's last season. Bohn supports DH but he's not an idiot, if he cant fill the seats, sell the suites, nor convince sponsors or boosters then I dont think he'll be backing DH a whole lot.
Sad, but many of us are looking forward to next year and want to forget this year already.
It's how they're losing, not that they're losing at least in my opinion. The natives would feel better if it looked like there was a sense of competence out there. But the output has been close to laughable. I still will give the benefit of the doubt just because I expected this season to be bad, so I'm not surprised and not running around with a pitchfork.
Calling it apples to oranges is incredibly uninformed.
CSU was expected for win 1 game this year with THEIR schedule. The fact that they show continual improvement and are competitive speaks volumes of the differences in coaching.
I think they'd be able to win 4 games with CU's schedule, which is exactly how many CU is going to win this year.
If Helfrich is fired RIGHT THE **** NOW, CU MIGHT win one more. All of CU's remaining opponents regularly score more than 14 points though so I'm not hopeful.
Of course, I thought he should have been fired immediately after the end around at the two with 11 defenders within 3 yards of the line of scrimmage. Might be the single dumbest coaching decision/play call I've ever witnessed (with my ears). I'm actually glad I didn't see that and it wasn't televised...
I saw it from the sideline and wondered what the hell he was doing :sad2:
That's great that they've done better, but they still aren't playing super athletes week in and week out. The one time they did (Cal - and calling them a team of super athletes is a stretch but they have some) they got their butts handed to them.
They beat teams that are worse than they are:
San Diego State 1-8 (One of the worst teams in college football)
UNLV 3-6 (Home Game)
SACRAMENTO STATE (1-AA, Home Game, 3 point win)
Houston 4-4 (Home game, 3 point win, best win so far)
Apples and Oranges
HAHA... you're cute, trying and all. :lol:
Did you forget who CU's wins were against? It's not like CU's wins came aagainst a murderers row of opponents.
Our wins are against:
CSU (not a good team - CU's only real legitimate win, probably on par with SDSU when we played them thanks to the new system and coaches and no talent)
EWU (1AA (and not a good 1AA team either) home game, Should have lost this)
WVU (another game we shouldn't have won against a bad team that somehow out stupided us)
KSU (another game we shouldn't have won, but got out stupided in, probably on par with Houston)
CU's wins are virtually a one-for-one comparison to CSU's wins, and CU was lucky to make it through a couple of those games.
The fact that CU has BARELY made it through four comparible wins with arguably superior talent to CSU, even with the 'circumstances', is damning enough. The fact that CSU competes with ranked teams and CU get;s blown out just adds fuel to the fire.
Again, you're comparing a BCS situation to a non BCS situation and this argument is laughable because of it. They've competed against TCU and BYU. Great! They looked rather out of their league against Cal. Hmmmm!
If CU played CSU's schedule they'd be 7-2 at worst.
ETA: Colorado and CSU's talent levels aren't that far apart. Calling it superior is a stretch
He probably has lost some steam in booster support - and guess what, it's because some boosters have the same, fickle, dumb-ass, knee-jerk reaction that so many of you are having right now. This complete melt-down amongst fans is unwarranted and immature.
All of you demanding people's heads need to calm the **** down. Are you kidding me? Yeah, the end-around was a little dumb, but Helfrich knows more about offense in football than any of us probably will ever know. He's a good mind that just needs to harness his love for the unique and daring. All the fans that arrogantly sit on the couch and play-call due to their self-anointed genius need to shut the **** up. You don't know the players abilities as well as the coaches, and you probably know **** about football.
STOP MELTING DOWN PEOPLE! It's annoying and disheartening, but show some support for your program. Critique it - fine. Asking for heads to roll when we have an injury-plagued and young team??...moronic. Firing people does NOT propel us forward as a program.
Maybe they would. All I was saying is that CSU is overachieving, which is a sign of a good coaching staff and poking holes in your still uninformed arguments.
CU SHOULD be 7-2 with CSU's schedule, the problem is, I don't think they would be because of the coaching. But that's not the point. Right now, CSU would still be 4-5 with CU's schedule, and CSU outright WON their games against similar opponents to CU. CU's 4 wins, as we all look back, were arguably lucky.
The COACHES turned CSU from a 1 win team into a 4-5 win team. The COACHES turned CU from a 7 win team to a 4 win team. In fact, right now, CU loses to CSU, as painful as it is for me to say that. They way they're playing right now, CU is still a 4 win team with CSU's non-BCS schedule. And only the most hardcore sunshine pumping diehards can argue otherwise.
Don't worry, spend enough time around here, and reality will sink in and you'll see the light. You won't blindly follow CU and Hawk, you'll see through the smoke and mirrors and you'll 'get it'. Sure the injuries play a part, but it's coaching, plain and simple. Bad coaching and bad playcalling.
You can't blame an end-around on the 2 freaking yard line on an injured and young team.
You can't blame the coaches failure to adjust on an injured and young team.
You can't blame the coaches failure to keep the best players on the field on an injured and young team.
It's the coaches who telegraph plays by only putting Scott in for runs, and putting Cody in to pass. It's the coaches who fail to adjust at halftime (glaring again against TAM) It's the coaches who let these players get away with continual mental mistakes and lax attitudes. We had a 20 yard screen yesterday... how many more times did the coaches run a play that worked? NONE But they sure loved the 3 yards and a cloud of dust end-around that never worked.
With the exception of Soldiers destruction at the hands of Mizzou, the O-Line hasn't been an issue for 3 or 4 games.
The youth excuse went out at the beginning of this season, most of the team has at least 2 years in the system.
I'm still curious, maybe I'll start another thread. When the team is healthy and experienced next year, and we're looking at the same crap on the field, what's your excuse gonna be?
I don't need to get it. My posting history will tell you I've got it a lot more than most on this board....
You're not poking holes in any of my arguments because you continue to compare teams in two different worlds which makes your argument ultimately inferior. If you would have brought up another BCS team with similar circumstances (like Iowa, Washington, or Syracuse) that actually was competitive (none are) you're credibility might have been a little bit better but instead you chose to compare a team that plays checkers with a team forced to play chess just about every week.
I don't support this team blindly, but I knew from august that this was going to be a long season. Just a bunch of fans (including yourself) had unrealistic expectations of this team and have gotten over emotional about the results.
Like I've said in other posts...even if the playcalling was perfect this team would still have the same record. The games may have been a little more cleaner and closer, but the outcomes would have been the same. "L" They're a year away from looking competitive and two years from being competitive and three years from actually competing.
I give Hawkins a pass until after the 2009 season. He does need to make changes but he's not on the hot seat.....yet.
CU will continue to lose because of bad coaching and the apologists will continue to be apologists.
I don't care that people point to our record and say "we're 4 and 5 brah, chillax man, that ain't that bad"... we are so close to being 1-7 it's not even funny.
The ONLY game this year that CU outplayed our opponent was CSU. Funny that that also looked like the only game the players were fired up for.
Between pissing off his players, constantly losing, hiring idiot assistants, having players arrested/ineligible right and left, caring more about bull**** philosophy than football, and displaying egregious nepotism, Dan Hawkins sure looks like a home run!
When do the excuses stop? I swear to god this team could lose 78-0 to Florida International Airport and the apologists would be out in full force.
Dan Hawkins doesn't appear to care about losing. While I'm sure that appearances are deceiving in this case, it is still troubling.
The time for rhetoric and bull**** is over. It's time to win or stfu.
'09 OC and DC
So I think it's evident Helfrich and more than likely Collins need to go, and better be gone before next season. Working within CU's monetary constraints and not wanting too great a transition in schemes again, I'd like to see Kiesau get a shot at OC. I'd also like to see Cabral put in charge of the D.
I don't know if firing anyone on the staff is warranted, but I do have my opinions.
All I know is that I better not hear that "ST are going to be electric" in the off-season. If I hear that again I'm going to bash my head against a wall. Less talk, more production.
Re: '09 OC and DC
agree, i think, Cabral can make the jump to DC, and stay lb coach. as far as OC goes, I cant think of anyone off the bat. of course, right now I'm half 'pissed'.
Re: '09 OC and DC
I would say Collins for the most part is doing well. At least well enough to stay on staff. He has called a good game against everyone and the D has played well enough to win all of the games, except for Mizzou. The playcalling in that game set us up to lose from the beginning. You would have thought he would have done better given the disaster that was last year.
However, he does have to work and make sure that tackling is emphasized. aTm had too many big plays and if we stop 3 big plays we win the game. When it came push to shove though, the D forced a 3 and out and we had a chance to win, only to blow it.
But there have been too many times when the D has been put out on an island since the O is struggling. I'm reminded of the '06 season when the D always put us in a position to win, but we could never muster up any points, but had bad stats because they were always on the field and had more plays (on avg) run against them than most other schools in D1.
The one thing he has to stop doing though is rushing 3 and playing zone. How many times are guys open in the flats when we do this? Gah.
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