Forbes: Football earnings in Big 12

[Heywood]

Who was talking about selling out?

[video=youtube;DyVeQaFGOGo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyVeQaFGOGo[/video]

 

[bigbang]

Adding sports, any sports, would be a revenue drain, not the opposite. There might be some Division I baseball programs that make money, but my guess is there aren't. See the Cal Athletic Department for an example of how costly non-revenue programs can be. (Don't get me wrong, I'd love a baseball team at CU, I'm just saying having one is not going to make us Texas-sized revenue or even move us in that direction).

It is a long term investment. And you are right it is a revenue drain, but revenue is also going to be generated from those extra sports, and if we get really good, the fans will come out in large numbers from all over the state. We can build great facillies, maybe convert Folsom field into a baseball park during the spring time or build a brand new sports facility for baseball and softball, that should be a major revenue generator.

 

[Darth Snow]

It is a long term investment. And you are right it is a revenue drain, but revenue is also going to be generated from those extra sports, and if we get really good, the fans will come out in large numbers from all over the state. We can build great facillies, maybe convert Folsom field into a baseball park during the spring time or build a brand new sports facility for baseball and softball, that should be a major revenue generator.

You a lawyer?

And please, pass whatever you are smoking.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

I will be for adding major sports as soon as we add another NC in football.

 

[Tractor]

And you are right it is a revenue drain, but revenue is also going to be generated

.......
Currently we're not in a situation to make this kind of investment. We have to focus on fixing the things that should traditionally generate revenue (Bball and football). Until those get going, we need to run lean and clean.

Speaking of that, what's all this talk of expansion?!?!? We're not in a position to expand! Hell, we're not even selling out our current stadium! Maybe once we stop doing those 4 for $40 deals for conference home games in October, then we can revisit this topic.

 

[unbiasedtruth]

OU started talks and such of repairs and renovations to stadium, including expansion in 1997 and moved on it then. It seemed to work out ok for OU even though they couldnt sell out games during the 90's, maybe if 66 knew about his cellphone things would have been different.

it would be a great time to remodel and renovate Folsom and include an expansion in the plans. its not going to get any cheaper to do this say 5+ years down the road and if you do it now and the football program does start putting up double digits in wins each year you will be ahead of the game with a larger, nicely remodeled stadium....

if the football team doesnt do it with wins its really not going to hurt all that much. 46k tickets sold in a 56k seat stadium versus a 76k seat stadium really doesnt mean anything except only 46k tickets were sold...

 

[Del]

Saw the article today in the BDC that we are scheduled to pay off the 8 million dollar loan in 2019 and may be looking for another "bridge loan" from either the PAC-12 or university for the revenue shortfall for this season. For the university and AD's sake, I hope that the PAC-12 will float us the money so we don't have to get the increased **** storm from the fema- nazi liberals who want nothing more than to cancel the athletic program at CU. The only good thing was the article states the AD will have also paid the university over 1 million dollars in interest once the loan is repaid.

I think we will really be hurting for a while even with the new 2012 TV deal. Unless we can get some donors to step up, I just don't see us making any big time capital improvements on the facility front in the next 3-5 years. I think most of the new money will obviously have to go to paying off the first loan as well as this new bridge loan we will have to take out.

When the day does come that we are ready to make some facility upgrades, I would hope that they start with improvements that will directly help the product on the field i.e. a new practice facility, weight room, treatment upgrades etc. As we all know, the fans will come when there is a good product on the field. This year's basketball season was evidence of that. I think the suites we built in 2003 were a good idea but at this point I think we need to invest in getting the facilities to attract the best players so we can get some more W's. -- If our program can get back to being a perrenial top 25 team with occasional top 10 finishes we could sustain attendance of about 60-65k and would be grounds for a stadium expansion.

 

[66BUFF]

OU started talks and such of repairs and renovations to stadium, including expansion in 1997 and moved on it then. It seemed to work out ok for OU even though they couldnt sell out games during the 90's, maybe if 66 knew about his cellphone things would have been different.

it would be a great time to remodel and renovate Folsom and include an expansion in the plans. its not going to get any cheaper to do this say 5+ years down the road and if you do it now and the football program does start putting up double digits in wins each year you will be ahead of the game with a larger, nicely remodeled stadium....

if the football team doesnt do it with wins its really not going to hurt all that much. 46k tickets sold in a 56k seat stadium versus a 76k seat stadium really doesnt mean anything except only 46k tickets were sold...

cellphone?????????????

 

[GregInArlington]

Ticket sales and stadium revenue is a small portion of the pie. The big reason why Texas makes all that money, is because there alumns donate a lot of money to the program, and they have a major tv deal with the Big 12, that is why Nebraska left the Big 12 because they were tired of the deal texas is getting in terms of revenuse. That is why you hear people call the new conference the texas 10. The make matters worse, Texas is going to earn even more money after signing a deal with ESPN. It is unfair, the competitive advantage texas is getting. Texas also invested in alot of sports. What we need to do as a program, is to get better in Basketball, track and field, and invest in more sports teams, maybe add Baseball and Softball.

Stadium revenue is a HUGE piece of the pie!

$80 per ticket (minimum) x 102,000 per game = $8,160,000 per game. That x 7 home games = $57,120,000. This is before adding in additional concessions, merchandise, or higher ticket prices that aren't in the upper deck, suites, etc...

The stadium revenue is most of the pie.

 

[absinthe]

two seasons in a row with 7 home games, avg attendance over 52K and we can talk expansion.

 

[bigbang]

Stadium revenue is a HUGE piece of the pie!

$80 per ticket (minimum) x 102,000 per game = $8,160,000 per game. That x 7 home games = $57,120,000. This is before adding in additional concessions, merchandise, or higher ticket prices that aren't in the upper deck, suites, etc...

The stadium revenue is most of the pie.

That can't be right. Students can't afford that price, and plus you have to account for expenses.

 

[GoldenBuff]

I just don't see us making any big time capital improvements on the facility front in the next 3-5 years. I think most of the new money will obviously have to go to paying off the first loan as well as this new bridge loan we will have to take out.

When the day does come that we are ready to make some facility upgrades, I would hope that they start with improvements that will directly help the product on the field i.e. a new practice facility, weight room, treatment upgrades etc. As we all know, the fans will come when there is a good product on the field. This year's basketball season was evidence of that. I think the suites we built in 2003 were a good idea but at this point I think we need to invest in getting the facilities to attract the best players so we can get some more W's. -- If our program can get back to being a perrenial top 25 team with occasional top 10 finishes we could sustain attendance of about 60-65k and would be grounds for a stadium expansion.

While we won't see stadium expansion anytime soon, I do know that there will be athletic facility improvements during the next decade. Here are some relevant quotes from the latest university master plan:

3. Athletics Capital Improvements
The space needs analysis (IV.A) identified a shortage of at least 134,000 assignable
square feet of indoor space for athletics programs. The primary project to address this
shortage is a new fieldhouse, and a number of other projects are also proposed to
upgrade or add facilities:
• Balch Fieldhouse Renovation: Renovations of the existing Balch Fieldhouse
would include upgrades or replacement of the pressbox, gates and plazas, and
concession facilities.
• Dal Ward Athletic Center Expansion for Women’s Sports: An expansion of the
Dal Ward complex would provide additional training, office, and student athlete
support areas at the northeast corner of the stadium. Also planned are additional
stadium seats in this area to replace those that were removed due to unstable soil.
• Fieldhouse and Parking Structure: An indoor practice facility, primarily for
football, is envisioned north of Franklin Field, adjoining the stadium complex. About
400 to 600 structured parking spaces are planned to be included. Uses now in
Carlson Gymnasium and Balch Fieldhouse may be relocated to the new
fieldhouse. Relocation of Facilities Management grounds and recycling operations
on the new fieldhouse site will be necessary as part of the project. An alternative
site for the fieldhouse could be north of Boulder Creek, near the football practice
fields.
• Performance Facility for Soccer and Lacrosse: This is seen as a replacement
facility for the current uses at Prentup Field. Replacement of this field is likely as
the East Campus is developed for academic uses over the next 10 years.
Replacement fields could be developed north of Boulder Creek or at CU-Boulder
South.
• Track and Field Facility: This is planned as a replacement for Potts Field.
Relocation and replacement of existing track and field facilities is likely as the East
Campus is developed for academic uses over the next 10 years. Replacement
fields could be developed north of Boulder Creek or at CU-Boulder South.
• Other Outdoor Fields and Courts: Substantial improvements to existing outdoor
facilities, and some new construction, will be necessary in order to remain
competitive in the Pac-12 Conference and the NCAA as a whole. Depending upon
which sports are added, additional facilities and land will be required. CU-Boulder
South is the most likely site for significant new outdoor practice facilities.
• Indoor Tennis Facility: This may be developed in cooperation with Recreation
Services. A site or sites have not been chosen. Development of this facility in
conjunction with the proposed new fieldhouse could be considered to share
various support facilities required for each.

Location, timing, square footage, and cost estimates for these proposed capital
improvements are detailed in the building plan (V.A). Most of these athletics capital
projects are not related to the projected student growth, with the notable exception of
the additional stadium seats (northeast corner) which may be desired to help
accommodate the student body at stadium functions.

On Parking:

ii. Folsom Street/Stadium Drive
This would be located south of Boulder Creek and north of
Franklin Field. A site study sponsored by the Department
of Intercollegiate Athletics projected that the facility could
accommodate up to 1,000 spaces and would serve as
the foundation for a new Fieldhouse building. Stadium
Drive would be relocated north along Boulder Creek to
connect to Folsom opposite Taft Drive. The Grounds
Building and several smaller storage buildings would be
removed. This would open up a rectangular site at the north end of
Franklin Field that is very large with a grade difference
that allows for a four-level parking structure holding approximately 1,000
spaces. This site is in a good location to intercept traffic
coming from the north and is relatively close to buildings
located on the north end of campus. Its proximity to Folsom
Stadium makes it very attractive for stadium events. There are significant floodplain and
access issues that would have to be resolved to make this site feasible.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

That can't be right. Students can't afford that price, and plus you have to account for expenses.

No, student tickets are probably much cheaper. But at the same time, there are probably tickets that are a lot more.

And he's only talking about REVENUE -- not expenses.


But if you look at that link to the ESPN information, for 2010, Texas had $56 million in ticket sales, and $37 million in donations, contributions, etc.

 

[GregInArlington]

That can't be right. Students can't afford that price, and plus you have to account for expenses.

It looks like you are right on the student end - about $150 for student tickets. $65 per ticket for student single game guest tickets.

Expenses aren't counted in revenue however. And the suites and everything in the lower deck makes a ****load of cash.

 

[14ers4me]

Damnit. If one more person feels the need to chime in with "We don't sell out now, we shouldn't even be thinking about expansion". I'm gonna go berzerk. We're NOT talking about expansion now. The point is that places like UT make so much money partly because they have 100,000+ seat stadiums that they fill. We need to be at a point where we can fill an 80,000 seat stadium in order to compete at that level. This has nothing to do with any kind of discussion about stadium expansion right now. Don't read things that aren't there.

Sacky-what in CU's history makes you think they'll ever get to that point? Even in the best years we never sold out every game every year. To think we'll ever be able to sell out an 80-100,000 seat stadium is unrealistic. Personally I'd love it if we could. Bigger crowds, more enthusiam and definately more money, but an expansion to that size is not going to happen. Perhaps something in the 60-65K range would make sense, but even that is unlikely to sell out for the foreseeable future. What timeline do you see it as possible? 10 years? 20?

 

[Del]

Hi Golden Buff - That is encouraging that they are including it in the masterplan and I hope that we see some of that but honestly a lot of that stuff was in the 2001 masterplan as well. Hopefully we can get the practice facility and sell it with the parking structure for increased revenue and also being able to be used by the track team since it would have a running track around the field.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

An indoor practice facility, primarily for football, is envisioned north of Franklin Field, adjoining the stadium complex.

Where would they fit this? Do they mean on Franklin Field?

 

[sackman]

Sacky-what in CU's history makes you think they'll ever get to that point? Even in the best years we never sold out every game every year. To think we'll ever be able to sell out an 80-100,000 seat stadium is unrealistic. Personally I'd love it if we could. Bigger crowds, more enthusiam and definately more money, but an expansion to that size is not going to happen. Perhaps something in the 60-65K range would make sense, but even that is unlikely to sell out for the foreseeable future. What timeline do you see it as possible? 10 years? 20?

Several things. One, the University itself has grown a lot in the last 20 years. There's over 30,000 students at CU-Boulder now and they're planning on adding another 5-6,000 in the next 10 years.
Two - the overall population of the area has also grown incredibly in the last 20 years. And it's expected to continue to grow.
Three - we were at 95% of capacity last year with Dan Hawkins running the show. Put a halfway decent product on the field and the demand for tickets will increase.
Four, and possibly the most important - There's been a visible effort on the part of the AD and the school to re-connect and re-engage alumni. Alumni are the people who will be responsible for the largest increase in ticket demand. This is a process that takes several years, but is now starting to show some signs of success.
Five - the number needs to be around 80K in order to be large enough to produce the kinds of revenues that will help us compete with the likes of Texas, etc. Not that we'll probably ever get to that point, but we can get close, and that's the best we can hope for.

How long do I think it'll take? Probably another 10-15 years would be my best guess. But UBT is right in that if we at least put the plans together now, it'll make it easier when the time comes.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Several things. One, the University itself has grown a lot in the last 20 years. There's over 30,000 students at CU-Boulder now and they're planning on adding another 5-6,000 in the next 10 years.
Two - the overall population of the area has also grown incredibly in the last 20 years. And it's expected to continue to grow.
Three - we were at 95% of capacity last year with Dan Hawkins running the show. Put a halfway decent product on the field and the demand for tickets will increase.
Four, and possibly the most important - There's been a visible effort on the part of the AD and the school to re-connect and re-engage alumni. Alumni are the people who will be responsible for the largest increase in ticket demand. This is a process that takes several years, but is now starting to show some signs of success.
Five - the number needs to be around 80K in order to be large enough to produce the kinds of revenues that will help us compete with the likes of Texas, etc. Not that we'll probably ever get to that point, but we can get close, and that's the best we can hope for.

How long do I think it'll take? Probably another 10-15 years would be my best guess. But UBT is right in that if we at least put the plans together now, it'll make it easier when the time comes.

Excellent points!!!
:congrats:

 

[Buffnik]

Several things. One, the University itself has grown a lot in the last 20 years. There's over 30,000 students at CU-Boulder now and they're planning on adding another 5-6,000 in the next 10 years.
Two - the overall population of the area has also grown incredibly in the last 20 years. And it's expected to continue to grow.
Three - we were at 95% of capacity last year with Dan Hawkins running the show. Put a halfway decent product on the field and the demand for tickets will increase.
Four, and possibly the most important - There's been a visible effort on the part of the AD and the school to re-connect and re-engage alumni. Alumni are the people who will be responsible for the largest increase in ticket demand. This is a process that takes several years, but is now starting to show some signs of success.
Five - the number needs to be around 80K in order to be large enough to produce the kinds of revenues that will help us compete with the likes of Texas, etc. Not that we'll probably ever get to that point, but we can get close, and that's the best we can hope for.

How long do I think it'll take? Probably another 10-15 years would be my best guess. But UBT is right in that if we at least put the plans together now, it'll make it easier when the time comes.

Spot on.

Go to win and we'll blow this chit out. I think that after the small downturn in freshman enrollment for 2011, they're looking at something crazy by 2020. Total enrollment going up over 10k or something.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Spot on.

Go to win and we'll blow this chit out. I think that after the small downturn in freshman enrollment for 2011, they're looking at something crazy by 2020. Total enrollment going up over 10k or something.

The Pac-12 move is gonna be huge too, especially if we are succesful

 

[GoldenBuff]

An indoor practice facility, primarily for football, is envisioned north of Franklin Field, adjoining the stadium complex.

Where would they fit this? Do they mean on Franklin Field?

Nope. They would take the giant hill between Franklin Field and Stadium Drive and use the difference in grade to build a parking garage. Then they would stick the practice facility on top of that so that ground level would open up onto Franklin Field. Here's a picture from the master plan that shows what the footprint would be.



Basically, it would be located in the area between the north end of Franklin Field and the south border of the red rectangle. At least, that's how I read it anyway...

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Nope. They would take the giant hill between Franklin Field and Stadium Drive and use the difference in grade to build a parking garage. Then they would stick the practice facility on top of that so that ground level would open up onto Franklin Field. Here's a picture from the master plan that shows what the footprint would be.

View attachment 6486

Basically, it would be located in the area between the north end of Franklin Field and the south border of the red rectangle. At least, that's how I read it anyway...

Duh I was thinking south for some reason, I guess I have been gone too long.

 

[Mick Ronson]

GoldenBuff is right, that area between the creek and Franklin Field along the Stadium Drive turn-in is CU's recycling and Facilities Management services. two things that could easily go somewhere else. part of it has stacks of "boulders" sitting there that eventually they place in geometrical, eye-catching places around campus as if they fell out of the sky (they are a bit silly, imo). that area is under-utilized, for sure.

 

[14ers4me]

Several things. One, the University itself has grown a lot in the last 20 years. There's over 30,000 students at CU-Boulder now and they're planning on adding another 5-6,000 in the next 10 years.
Two - the overall population of the area has also grown incredibly in the last 20 years. And it's expected to continue to grow.
Three - we were at 95% of capacity last year with Dan Hawkins running the show. Put a halfway decent product on the field and the demand for tickets will increase.
Four, and possibly the most important - There's been a visible effort on the part of the AD and the school to re-connect and re-engage alumni. Alumni are the people who will be responsible for the largest increase in ticket demand. This is a process that takes several years, but is now starting to show some signs of success.
Five - the number needs to be around 80K in order to be large enough to produce the kinds of revenues that will help us compete with the likes of Texas, etc. Not that we'll probably ever get to that point, but we can get close, and that's the best we can hope for.

How long do I think it'll take? Probably another 10-15 years would be my best guess. But UBT is right in that if we at least put the plans together now, it'll make it easier when the time comes.

To get to 80K as you mention it would have to occur in smaller expansions if it's to be done at all. It would be foolish to do it all at once. No one can forecast what things will be like in 10-15 years and we can plan all we want, but to expect a fan base to sell out 80K when it hasn't done so consistantly at 54K is unrealistic. We say it here all the time-the Denver metro area attracts transplants from other areas and more often than not they are not CU fans. That's why we don't see a lot of new people to the area at the games. They have no attachment to the University. The area has been growing for a long time. Attendance has not. Combine that with the fact the locals have "many more options" on a Saturday than most other places (which we also bemoan when it comes to fan support) and it doesn't add up for that kind of expansion. I agree the AD is doing a much better job at reconnecting w/ alumni, but they aren't going to increase attendance 25-30K a game. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to CU fill a stadium that big. I think 65K is about the most we can expect and that's if all the points you made come true. That would be a nice sized stadium IMHO. I also believe your 95% of capacity is a bit off. We had a number of games last year with about 47K. That's 87%, which considering what D2D put out there is damn good. To average 95% we'd have had to sell out a number of games and that did not happen.

 

[dply]

Spot on.

Go to win and we'll blow this chit out. I think that after the small downturn in freshman enrollment for 2011, they're looking at something crazy by 2020. Total enrollment going up over 10k or something.

3 new computer systems for admissions in the last 2 years. We've had to work each student twice. Decisions for admitted students didn't go out until they already chose a different school. Thing should be better next year.

 

[Unleash Hell]

The north end needs to be enclosed, bigger video boards on each end with smaller vid boards at each corner and another level on the west side by tearing down balch.

 

[The Guest]

The 90's are long gone my friend.

You shut your mouth! You shut your dirty whore mouth!

 

[sackman]

To get to 80K as you mention it would have to occur in smaller expansions if it's to be done at all. It would be foolish to do it all at once. No one can forecast what things will be like in 10-15 years and we can plan all we want, but to expect a fan base to sell out 80K when it hasn't done so consistantly at 54K is unrealistic. We say it here all the time-the Denver metro area attracts transplants from other areas and more often than not they are not CU fans. That's why we don't see a lot of new people to the area at the games. They have no attachment to the University. The area has been growing for a long time. Attendance has not. Combine that with the fact the locals have "many more options" on a Saturday than most other places (which we also bemoan when it comes to fan support) and it doesn't add up for that kind of expansion. I agree the AD is doing a much better job at reconnecting w/ alumni, but they aren't going to increase attendance 25-30K a game. Again, I hope I'm wrong. I'd love to CU fill a stadium that big. I think 65K is about the most we can expect and that's if all the points you made come true. That would be a nice sized stadium IMHO. I also believe your 95% of capacity is a bit off. We had a number of games last year with about 47K. That's 87%, which considering what D2D put out there is damn good. To average 95% we'd have had to sell out a number of games and that did not happen.

I agree that it would have to be done in phases. First go to 60K, then to 70K, then to 80K. The "too many options" excuse is LAME, LAME, LAME. And yes, the increased population has produced increased attendance. In 1980, we were lucky to get 25,000 people in the stadium. In 2010, with a team that was just about as good as the one in 1980, we regularly got double that amount. Look at the numbers, if we're coming close to selling out a 53,000 seat stadium with a Dan Hawkins coached team, what would happen if we had an actual coach with a real team here? They're hoping to produce 25,000 season tickets THIS YEAR. I personally think they'll reach that figure. allbuffs is doubling it's purchase, and a bunch of my friends/family are getting together to buy another six tickets. That's 8 new season tickets from just one source. You think I'm alone? They'll need to expand the stadium if they continue this kind of momentum. 65K is a nice interim goal, but 80K is where we ultimately need to be, IMO. Stop being such a Debbie Downer. It's only impossible if we make it that way.

 

[Unleash Hell]

I agree that it would have to be done in phases. First go to 60K, then to 70K, then to 80K. The "too many options" excuse is LAME, LAME, LAME. And yes, the increased population has produced increased attendance. In 1980, we were lucky to get 25,000 people in the stadium. In 2010, with a team that was just about as good as the one in 1980, we regularly got double that amount. Look at the numbers, if we're coming close to selling out a 53,000 seat stadium with a Dan Hawkins coached team, what would happen if we had an actual coach with a real team here? They're hoping to produce 25,000 season tickets THIS YEAR. I personally think they'll reach that figure. allbuffs is doubling it's purchase, and a bunch of my friends/family are getting together to buy another six tickets. That's 8 new season tickets from just one source. You think I'm alone? They'll need to expand the stadium if they continue this kind of momentum. 65K is a nice interim goal, but 80K is where we ultimately need to be, IMO. Stop being such a Debbie Downer. It's only impossible if we make it that way.

What phases would you like to see done?