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Games Thread- Women's bball hosts Jacksonville (Sunday, 11/24, 6:00 MT) and Indiana State (Tuesday, 2:00)

buffgal said:
I don't think this non-conference schedule it preparing the team for the Pac-12.
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Frankly, this team just doesn't match up with the top half of the Pac-12 to even have more than a puncher's chance in most conference games this year -- regardless of what they'd done with non-conference scheduling.

The reasonable hopeful expectation for this season is to dominate a weak OOC schedule that banks a ton of wins, then to see steady improvement of the team during conference play with enough wins to deliver a winning record and NIT appearance.

I'd consider that a successful season for the current state of the program and it would give JR some momentum in recruiting with something to sell.
 
The Pac-12 is frustrating. Colorado should be a perennial postseason selection, making at least a 3rd round or Quarterfinals WNIT run every year. It is so difficult to get conf Ws, but we usually aren't post-season eligible. Colorado would win the lesser WBI every season, if we could just actually find Ws to be eligible. The Pac-12 Conference tournament hurts, as Colorado is seeded low, that 19th conf game against a high seed usually a "loss." We beat teams last season that made the WNIT: Pepperdine, Northern Colorado, and we beat Wyoming this season who made last year's WNIT. We beat North Carolina last year and they made the NCAA tourney.

5 games to play in non-conf. With at least 18+1 conference games remaining that means a total of at least 30 games. So we need at least a record of 16-14 overall to be WNIT or WBI eligible. Currently one website has Colorado ranked #35 in RPI (changes constantly). Remaining non-conf opponents are Texas Southern #159, at Xavier #285, Denver #299, neutral-site Alabama-Birmingham #219, neutral-site Tulane #156. We are 6-0. So we need "just" 10 more wins to be postseason eligible. Denver is a trap rivalry game and good making the WNIT last year. Winning out in non-conf gets us 10 wins. So we'd need to finish 5-13 in Pac-12 games heading into Vegas for the Pac-12 tourney to guarantee ourselves WNIT/WBI eligibility with a 15-13 record, as we'll have an eventual loss in the conf tournament (buy hopefully an upset W or two). Therein lies the problem. Even only needing "just" 5 wins in 18 conference games, where do we find the five wins? ESPNw just did a piece naming the top-25 players in women's college basketball. More than 1/3 of the players in the top-25 are Pac-12. In fact 8 of the top 14 are Pac-12. Seemingly, every game we'll be playing against better teams with the top players in the country.

Interestingly, Washington State takes a completely different approach than the Buffs. Instead of padding their non-conference schedule with mid-major patsies like the Buffs, the Cougars prep for Pac-12 play by playing the best teams they can schedule. This season alone Washington State has schedlued Baylor, South Carolina, Indiana, Miami, Gonzaga, Pepperdine, Boise State, BYU. They will certainly be prepared for the gauntlet of the Pac-12. Washington State doesn't care about being postseason eligible for the WNIT. Washington State is trying to sell future recruits that they are going to get a chance to play against the top programs in the country, not just in Pac-12 play, but in non-conference as well. Elite recruits are going to pay attention. Prospects want to play for a program where they can start right away, and prove they can play and win against top programs. My concern is what do the Buffs offer recruits? Come to Colorado, where if we go undefeated in non-conference play, we STILL might not manage to eligible for the WNIT? That's a tough sell.
 
some nice points but I think the goal should not be the WNIT, it should be a consolation prize. DU is not a rivalry game. It is a Co team and usually decent but not really a rival. I have no ideal why the schools schedule who they do but Washington State is also playing in a tourney that has Baylor, Gonzaga and the teams the include Oregon. The Oregon tweeted out a tweet that everybody in the 6-8 team tourney is undefeated so I have a feeling that that inflates the Wash st schedule. I think you have to look at 5 year schedules to see what is going on. i do not care about RPI of every team, what I care about does the preseason get your ready for the conference and CUs has not for a while. I remember one of Ceal's last year after Borkland and Fagan and all those payers left they went through the preseason undefeated and one of the freshman payers were interviewed and was asked if they were prepared for the big 12. After a horrid Big 12 season the reporter talked how they could see in the players eyes they had no ideal what was going to required to win.
CU has a lot to sell, I just do not think they have a staff that can sell big time players about playing here. We shall see if the team is prepared for the pac 12 and if they can make the WNIT. The only reason I thin the WNIT would be good is that it would mean the program has improved.
 
Part of the non-conference scheduling problem from what I have read is that JR and Tad both have problems getting good teams to do home and home games. So that leaves us with filler teams and filler tournaments.

The last tournament CU hosted didn't have good teams in it and the tournament hadn't for some time.

If memory serves, both KMM and Lappe had teams go through the non-conference undefeated and it did not translate in to a winning conference season.

CU has been in or near the cellar of either the Big 12 or Pac-12 for years. We also don't pay our coach very well. Limiting the salary limits who will come to CU and coach.

I don't know how we get and keep good players at CU, but it hasn't happened in many years now.
 
Our big problem is offense. Do we have a player who can go off some night for 30 points? Or 25 points?

Free throw shooting has not been good and they need to guard the 3 point shot.
 
buffgal said:
Our big problem is offense. Do we have a player who can go off some night for 30 points? Or 25 points?

Free throw shooting has not been good and they need to guard the 3 point shot.
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I think you are right. To me Mia might be their best scorer and Whitaker could become a really good consistent scorer but I really think their ceiling is 25pts at most and only once in a while. They are more in the 15pts per game range. Got to hit free throws. The reason the men beat Clemson was they were 90% from the FT lane.
 
Whitaker is fun to watch isn't she? In just 16 minute a game so far, Charlotte Whittaker is averaging 8.3 points and 3.0 rebounds. I wanted to check against my memory so I looked up the best production from forward/centers for the Buffs each season since the Brittany Spears's left:

'18/19 Peanut Tuitele 7.3 points and 5.4 rebounds
'17/18 Janea Bunn 9.1 points 6.7 rebounds
'16/17 Makenzie Ellis 6.4 points and 4.2 rebounds
'15/16 Jamie Swann 13.5 points and 7.0 rebounds
'14/15 Jamie Swann 13.2 points and 7.9 rebounds
'13/14 Arielle Roberson 12.0 points and 8.3 rebounds
'12/13 Arielle Roberson 12.1 points and 6.2 rebounds
'11/12 Julie Seabrook 7.3 points and 5.2 rebounds

Whittaker had some foul trouble getting used to the speed of the game, and let's be honest, American basketball. She'll figure that out. Project her minutes to starter level (around 32min/game) and with zero improvement we're looking at a player averaging almost 17 points a game and 6 rebounds. I'd say she's already a great post player for us, especially by the recent standards of this program. She reminds me of Shannon Coffee of Stanford, only Tara couldn't begin to figure out how to effectively use or incorporate Coffee for the Cardinal. Once she went pro, Coffee averages 19.7 points and 12.3 rebounds for Nayon Basket now. JR Payne won't make the same mistakes VanDerveer made with Coffee, and already is giving teams fits with good spacing, wings that can shoot and pass, and Whittaker destroying it with the left hand inside. Maybe most impressive is how quickly Whittaker is closing out on help defense outside.
 
Buffapalooza said:
Whitaker is fun to watch isn't she? In just 16 minute a game so far, Charlotte Whittaker is averaging 8.3 points and 3.0 rebounds. I wanted to check against my memory so I looked up the best production from forward/centers for the Buffs each season since the Brittany Spears's left:

'18/19 Peanut Tuitele 7.3 points and 5.4 rebounds
'17/18 Janea Bunn 9.1 points 6.7 rebounds
'16/17 Makenzie Ellis 6.4 points and 4.2 rebounds
'15/16 Jamie Swann 13.5 points and 7.0 rebounds
'14/15 Jamie Swann 13.2 points and 7.9 rebounds
'13/14 Arielle Roberson 12.0 points and 8.3 rebounds
'12/13 Arielle Roberson 12.1 points and 6.2 rebounds
'11/12 Julie Seabrook 7.3 points and 5.2 rebounds

Whittaker had some foul trouble getting used to the speed of the game, and let's be honest, American basketball. She'll figure that out. Project her minutes to starter level (around 32min/game) and with zero improvement we're looking at a player averaging almost 17 points a game and 6 rebounds. I'd say she's already a great post player for us, especially by the recent standards of this program. She reminds me of Shannon Coffee of Stanford, only Tara couldn't begin to figure out how to effectively use or incorporate Coffee for the Cardinal. Once she went pro, Coffee averages 19.7 points and 12.3 rebounds for Nayon Basket now. JR Payne won't make the same mistakes VanDerveer made with Coffee, and already is giving teams fits with good spacing, wings that can shoot and pass, and Whittaker destroying it with the left hand inside. Maybe most impressive is how quickly Whittaker is closing out on help defense outside.
Click to expand...
Easy now; already a great post payer for us?? 6 games in to one of the weakest schedules in the country. Let’s regroup in February before we label anything about this group great or anything else
 
Buffapalooza said:
Whitaker is fun to watch isn't she? In just 16 minute a game so far, Charlotte Whittaker is averaging 8.3 points and 3.0 rebounds. I wanted to check against my memory so I looked up the best production from forward/centers for the Buffs each season since the Brittany Spears's left:

'18/19 Peanut Tuitele 7.3 points and 5.4 rebounds
'17/18 Janea Bunn 9.1 points 6.7 rebounds
'16/17 Makenzie Ellis 6.4 points and 4.2 rebounds
'15/16 Jamie Swann 13.5 points and 7.0 rebounds
'14/15 Jamie Swann 13.2 points and 7.9 rebounds
'13/14 Arielle Roberson 12.0 points and 8.3 rebounds
'12/13 Arielle Roberson 12.1 points and 6.2 rebounds
'11/12 Julie Seabrook 7.3 points and 5.2 rebounds

Whittaker had some foul trouble getting used to the speed of the game, and let's be honest, American basketball. She'll figure that out. Project her minutes to starter level (around 32min/game) and with zero improvement we're looking at a player averaging almost 17 points a game and 6 rebounds. I'd say she's already a great post player for us, especially by the recent standards of this program. She reminds me of Shannon Coffee of Stanford, only Tara couldn't begin to figure out how to effectively use or incorporate Coffee for the Cardinal. Once she went pro, Coffee averages 19.7 points and 12.3 rebounds for Nayon Basket now. JR Payne won't make the same mistakes VanDerveer made with Coffee, and already is giving teams fits with good spacing, wings that can shoot and pass, and Whittaker destroying it with the left hand inside. Maybe most impressive is how quickly Whittaker is closing out on help defense outside.
Click to expand...
Easy now; already a great post payer for us?? 6 games in to one of the weakest schedules in the country. Let’s regroup in February before we label anything about this group great or anything else
 
Its nice they are getting votes but we will see how far this team has come the first week of pac 12 play
 
buffgal said:
Part of the non-conference scheduling problem from what I have read is that JR and Tad both have problems getting good teams to do home and home games. So that leaves us with filler teams and filler tournaments.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. So why is getting a home and home is a sacred cow for JR?

Obviously, it's difficult to prepare for the Pac-12 schedule. Seven or eight of our conference teams deserve to make the NCAA tournament with several making deep Sweet-16, Elite-8 or Final-4 funs. A Pac-12 team should be competitive to win the WNIT every season. Arizona did it last year. It's not really a conference, but rather a Who's Who of NCAA Women's College Basketball for players and teams. In order to prepare for that JR needs to give up on the home and home, if that is her hang up, and schedule whoever she can get that is legitimate even if that means playing on the road. Realistically, Colorado can't prepare to play the #1/1 best team in the Country by both the AP and Coach's poll, as well as #3/3, #5/5, #11/11, and #20/20 by playing teams that are at the bottom end of the 352 women's teams in Division One. It might be time to start scheduling the likes of DePaul, Gonzaga, Missouri State, Syracuse, Florida Gulf Coast, Green Bay, the two South Dakotas, Drake, Creighton, Middle Tennessee State and the likes even if it means we have to play on the road. The reality is the teams waiting for us in conference play are better than any teams we can schedule in non-conference, and we have to play on the road in the Pac-12 anyway. Might as well get used to playing good teams in hostile gyms.
 
If you follow CU's other sports, Tad and Jesse are both having problems getting teams to come to Boulder.
 
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