Are you saying that the University should have adequate current cash on hand to cover every long-term liability?
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Hawkins Contract and Buyout
- Thread starter SanDiegoBuff
- Start date
The other end of this is that you don't necessarily have to go by the strict terms of the buyout if you can reach a mutual agreement to resign.
This is done often in both sports and the business world by means of persuading the person you want to get rid of that it is in his best interest to resign under more favorable terms.
This would require that Bohn, or someone above him, make it clear to Hawk that it would make sense for him to negotiate his exit. Generally speaking this is done by convincing him that leaving is better than staying. You tell him that like it or not you are going to make decisions on assistants. You also show him how other elements of the program will no longer be under his control. Essentially you convince him that it is not in his professional best interest to stick around in what will be an uncomfortable position that will surely tarnish his image much further than what has already occured.
You still need to offer him terms that make him willing look at them and accept. You can however significantly alter the net damage in this manner and may be able to make the payout conditions more flexible as well (i.e. payout over a longer time period and or pension benefits in lue of immediate dollars.)
This is done often in both sports and the business world by means of persuading the person you want to get rid of that it is in his best interest to resign under more favorable terms.
This would require that Bohn, or someone above him, make it clear to Hawk that it would make sense for him to negotiate his exit. Generally speaking this is done by convincing him that leaving is better than staying. You tell him that like it or not you are going to make decisions on assistants. You also show him how other elements of the program will no longer be under his control. Essentially you convince him that it is not in his professional best interest to stick around in what will be an uncomfortable position that will surely tarnish his image much further than what has already occured.
You still need to offer him terms that make him willing look at them and accept. You can however significantly alter the net damage in this manner and may be able to make the payout conditions more flexible as well (i.e. payout over a longer time period and or pension benefits in lue of immediate dollars.)
This is another key, the contract says "not to exceed" the above numbers. If it's made clear that it would be tied up in court for so long or there would be other issues in receiving the money, they may reach a settlement for less than the $3.5m
One other thing, Bohn has said that he's talked to Hawkins about taking steps to improve. Does this count as remedial counseling towards firing with cause? We don't know, but it would be intersting to know what's actually going on behind those doors.
Asshole
i wouldn't count on a whole lot of discounting. hawkins has no incentive to accept that.
and, no, being a ****ty ass coach does not equal "cause" in any contract like this that i have ever seen.
"cause" is typically narrowly and specifically defined. it is stuff like breaking the law, breaking ncaa rules, etc. just being bad at your job doesn't generally count as a reason for termination for cause.
neither side is going to play fast with this deal in any case. if there is a separation, it will be done quickly, quietly, and without fuss.
and, no, being a ****ty ass coach does not equal "cause" in any contract like this that i have ever seen.
"cause" is typically narrowly and specifically defined. it is stuff like breaking the law, breaking ncaa rules, etc. just being bad at your job doesn't generally count as a reason for termination for cause.
neither side is going to play fast with this deal in any case. if there is a separation, it will be done quickly, quietly, and without fuss.
Hawk does not have a lot of financial reason to discount but there are other things that could factor in.
If it is made clear that he will be a lame duck and won't be calling the shots he may decide to get out. A lot of times these things come down to a pride issue, "my program, my way." If the AD is firing assistants controlling who gets hired, if the AD undercuts the budget and gets in the way of day to day operation of the program Hawk may do like a lot of other coaches and say "OK, what will you pay me to go away."
With this all put in place Hawk might decide that he would rather be in charge at a mid-major (or even be a coordinator someplace) than feel like he is the head coach in name only in a situation that he sees himself as destined to lose in. In that case he may be willing to discount at least what he could earn in the new job from what CU would owe him. If this means a HC job in the WAC or the MAC or even the Sun Belt he could make 300K+ thus saving CU 700-900K on the buyout.
I don't know if Hawk would do this or be stubborn and stay on in the face of not being welcome but he ends up with the same money and the university pays out a lot less. It has happened a lot of times before.
The only thing that makes me think 'cause' is that Bohn has said he's talked to him about his demeanor. Now, cause takes months to prove generally, and at least 90 days of failure according to the contract, so it's unlikely. Just an idea. Being a ****ty coach is not cause, as much as that sucks.
it is theoretically possible, but practically improbable, imho. i don't expect folks are going to be knocking the door down for his coaching services. and, i think HE thinks he can still turn it around. i think he'll just shake off whatever they try to do to pigeon hole him and he'll work out his contract unless and until they whack him.
where's he going to go? where else will he get this type of $ again?
if they decide to keep him, they'll make him whack some assistants and otherwise eff with his authority. he'll live with it because this is as good as it is going to get for him. this will be bad for the program, of course. a castrated lame duck coach losing at this pace is not going to help the program progress next year. hawkins will also know this and will count on the ad wanting to avoid a ricardo patton situation, i would think.
at least that is my 2 cents. opinions vary, of course.
stupid lawyers and their definition of "cause"...
BlackNGold
Club Member
You are exactly right...not only does Hawkins believe he can turn it around, he has to turn it around. If he gets fired from CU he will never get a major HC position again. Fighting to stay is really Hawkins only option.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Cash for clunkers!:thumbsup:
77buff
Well-Known Member
What's the alternative - poor attendence
decrease in fan merchandise sales
decrease in athletic fund
decrease in media revenue
fan apathy
loss of local business revenue restaurant and bar
loss of athletic dept jobs and possibly teams
Buttermaker
Active Member
poor attendence
- We have far better attendance than the GB era. This is post the addition of the club seats.
decrease in fan merchandise sales
- This has been on the decline since the fall of the Crips and Bloods
decrease in media revenue
- We have been on TV almost every week
fan apathy
- Where to start. Half full student sections when the team is "good"? Big XII championship games with less than 10k fans? Salam breaks 2000 in front of 35,000?
loss of local business revenue restaurant and bar
- Hasn't Boulder been working on this already?
loss of athletic dept jobs and possibly teams
- Maybe. Let's drop the FB program, continue to ski, join the Big West with a great baseball program
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Nope. Just that they should have reserved funds for liabilities that are not secured by any physical asset and that there is a possibility that the full balance of the liability can be accelerated.
I understand that this isn't always possible, but it is foolish to sign up for these contracts without any viable means to terminate the contract at your own discretion.
77buff
Well-Known Member
Do you think fans are going to continue to buy tickets when we put a losing product on the field?
Decrease in sales of fan merchandise? Ha Ha, yeah, just tell that to Florida, USC, Alabama, and LSU.:wow:
Televised games, I don't think ESPN, CBS, or ABC have CU on their short list for 2010. We did get on ESPN a couple of times, but with 4 straight losing seasons - what appeal are we going to have? Some lesser, obscure networks - yes.
Consult a CU media guide for the 1994 season when Salaam had 2074 yards - the smallest home crowd was 46,000 vs ISU. There was a game with 35,000 but that game was at Kansas. Back in those days, that was a damn good attendance figure for a Jayhawk home game.:lol:
Lastly, and none of you _uckers ever answer my question. Tell me what Dan Hawkins has produced in almost 4 years to keep his loser a_ _ around for year 5?
The only positive I can think of is our students get to rush the field when we win a game - regardless of the opponent.
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Lastly, and none of you _uckers ever answer my question. Tell me what Dan Hawkins has produced in almost 4 years to keep his loser a_ _ around for year 5?
The only positive I can think of is our students get to rush the field when we win a game - regardless of the opponent.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention 15 wins and good student atheletes / model citizens.
The only positive I can think of is our students get to rush the field when we win a game - regardless of the opponent.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention 15 wins and good student atheletes / model citizens.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
Here are a few reasons to KEEP Dan Hawkins.
#1 - it is cheaper to keep him than to fire him.
#2 - From a PR standpoint, he has never done anything to HURT the University. He doesn't always say the best things - but he never says the WRONG things. i.e. we don't have to worry about a "Not only was she a girl, she was terrible" comment from Dan Hawkins.
#3 - For the most part he keeps his players in line. There are rarely players in the police blotters, and the ones who are, generally receive a harsh punishment.
#4 - He is friendly with the University. i.e. he does things that the professors, staff, etc. like.
#5 - There is little danger that he is going to leave the University of Colorado.
#1 - it is cheaper to keep him than to fire him.
#2 - From a PR standpoint, he has never done anything to HURT the University. He doesn't always say the best things - but he never says the WRONG things. i.e. we don't have to worry about a "Not only was she a girl, she was terrible" comment from Dan Hawkins.
#3 - For the most part he keeps his players in line. There are rarely players in the police blotters, and the ones who are, generally receive a harsh punishment.
#4 - He is friendly with the University. i.e. he does things that the professors, staff, etc. like.
#5 - There is little danger that he is going to leave the University of Colorado.
calibuff81
New Member
Quite honestly I think Hawkins stays, there's no way all these recruits are committing unless they've gotten a firm committment from Hawkins and Bohn that he will be around next year. As much as we all would like to see Bohn replace Hawkins I just don't think it's happening. If Hawkins goes so will some or most of the recruits unless a new coaching staff can be brought in right away and salvage what's left of what we can hold on to. This time last year we were nowhere close to having this number of recruits.
I think you must be correct. The recruits have got to be hearing [from the internet, other coaches] that Hawk may be gone after this season, it makes sense that Bohn has spoken to those with questions and told them that Hawk will be here next season [and probably longer.]