Honest thoughts on CSU and where CU needs to look for rivalry

[MtnBuff]

The answer to this is fairly simple. CSU gets the attention of CU fans because unfortunately we have allowed the game to become somewhat competitive. CU has still won more than lost but CSU has won often enough in recent years to put the outcome in doubt.

Add to this the number of games we play in which the outcome is not in doubt. In recent years teams like USC, Stanford, even UCLA and Washington have been able know that even if they played a bad game they would leave the game with a win.

Simply get CU football back to the point it should be. Get us to the point where we are a contender to beat the teams in our league, win often enough that we are getting quality bowl games, and most of our home games are wins.

If we do that we will then be good enough that even in their up years CSU won't be a highly competitive game. Get it back to where the outcome of the CSU game is a boring win for us and an embarrassing loss for their fans and the "rivalry" won't be an issue any more. CU fans won't be that interested and CSU fans won't want to discuss it.

Historically CU has won the game the vast majority of the time with the few CSU wins in close games and most CU wins being blow-outs. Return to that level which we should and all this stuff goes away.

 

[4DemBuffs]

I don't know if this has been addressed earlier in the thread as I skipped over a lot of posts.

However, who cares that the area around Ft. Fun gets to be 1 million people. CU has that base plus some and still can't keep the best players here. They all go out of state. So, if CU can't land them, what in the world makes anyone think that CSU will get them?

C'mon!!!

Plus, they are going to sell out their stadium with a bunch of transplants? CU can't. WTF would you think CSU could?

They would all be transplants and have allegiances elsewhere. Not with Colorado State. They will NOT fill that stadium.

If any of the players in HS in that area are any good, the only program that might have some hope of landing them would be The Buffs. And we all know how that has gone over the last decade.

And some of you think they would sign with CSU over Colorado? Yeah.

No.

 

[MtnBuff]

I don't know if this has been addressed earlier in the thread as I skipped over a lot of posts.

However, who cares that the area around Ft. Fun gets to be 1 million people. CU has that base plus some and still can't keep the best players here. They all go out of state. So, if CU can't land them, what in the world makes anyone think that CSU will get them?

C'mon!!!

Plus, they are going to sell out their stadium with a bunch of transplants? CU can't. WTF would you think CSU could?

They would all be transplants and have allegiances elsewhere. Not with Colorado State. If they are any good, the only program that might have some hope of landing them would be The Buffs. And we all know how that has gone over the last decade.

And some of you think they would sign with CSU over Colorado? Yeah.

No.

Some great points.

The population of the area has been growing for some time. I don't know the numbers but would guess that the population has doubled in the past 20 years, Has their attendance doubled as well? No it has gone down. What makes them think the next bunch of transplants are going to care any more than the last batch of transplants did, and a new stadium isn't going to change that much if any.

 

[Highlander]

When'd you go to school? All it takes is to look at the attendance for that game in both basketball and football to give you that conclusion.

This is confirmation of the fall of CU football. From 87-02 (my glorious 5 years), we played CSU in the first 3 years and beat them without much thought to it - not blow outs, but I have no memory of drama when compared to the Big 8 games.

They fact that CSU attends our home games does not make the game important for CU - it makes it important for them.

If it is important to you, you need a serious attitude adjustment. Just sayin'

 

[Quattro]

This is confirmation of the fall of CU football. From 87-02 (my glorious 5 years), we played CSU in the first 3 years and beat them without much thought to it - not blow outs, but I have no memory of drama when compared to the Big 8 games.

They fact that CSU attends our home games does not make the game important for CU - it makes it important for them.

If it is important to you, you need a serious attitude adjustment. Just sayin'

You do understand the era of CU football I've grown up with, right? Sure I remember the 2001 NU game, but my memories prior to the 2005 Big 12 CCG are few. Most of my memories are from 2006 and on, that is a lot of bad memories. My era of fans and students have only witnessed ****ty football and a drummed up rivalry with CSU. The douches who would try to talk **** in high school who were CSU fans added to that, but if CU was good in football this era I wouldn't have given a damn about them.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Some great points.

The population of the area has been growing for some time. I don't know the numbers but would guess that the population has doubled in the past 20 years, Has their attendance doubled as well? No it has gone down. What makes them think the next bunch of transplants are going to care any more than the last batch of transplants did, and a new stadium isn't going to change that much if any.

That's the thing, just because the population in the Northern Colorado region is increasing is no guarantee of increased attendance for CSU football games. There are a number of schools in BCS conferences that are located in huge metro areas that don't even draw all that well - GT, Northwestern, BC, TCU, Rutgers, Maryland are a few.

 

[Deleted member 807]

SMU is sitting in the middle of an urban area of 4.5 million that is one of the most fertile recruiting grounds surrounded by among the most football crazy people in the country.

There is a light rail station a quarter mile from the stadium entrance. Their stadium is beautiful, fairly new and on campus. The tailgating scene is encouraged and really fun.

But, alas, sell-outs of are few and far between. They average about 25,000.

If SMU can't consistently fill their 32,000 stadium, then what hope does CSU have?

People want to see meaningful games against BCS level competition.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

This is confirmation of the fall of CU football. From 87-02 (my glorious 5 years), we played CSU in the first 3 years and beat them without much thought to it - not blow outs, but I have no memory of drama when compared to the Big 8 games.

They fact that CSU attends our home games does not make the game important for CU - it makes it important for them.

If it is important to you, you need a serious attitude adjustment. Just sayin'

That was a glorious five years if I am counting right.

 

[SuperD]

I think the drive distance is unfortunately a consideration that many of us ignore when it comes to the rivalry discussion. I'd have to check, but I think we may be in the unique position of being the only P5 school (other than Utah who just got into the club 3 years ago, and they have BYU) that doesn't have another BCS school within 500 miles of us. I think KjucoSu is the closest to us at like 499 miles, and...uh...it's KSU.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

No. That is not more accurate since BYU is a national championship and Heisman winning program that is at a higher level than many BCS programs in support, facilities and following.

How about this one:

What if Syracuse said they were going to start playing Buffalo every year at a neutral site? Or West Virginia did that with Marshall? Or Boston College did that with UMass? Or Ohio State did it with Cincinnati? Or Arkansas did it with Arkansas State? Or LSU did it with Tulane? Or Tennessee did it with Memphis?

Would any of those match ups, in your opinion, elevate the BCS program?

check your neck you have been nik'd.

 

[CsquaredCC]

No. That is not more accurate since BYU is a national championship and Heisman winning program that is at a higher level than many BCS programs in support, facilities and following.

How about this one:

What if Syracuse said they were going to start playing Buffalo every year at a neutral site? Or West Virginia did that with Marshall? Or Boston College did that with UMass? Or Ohio State did it with Cincinnati? Or Arkansas did it with Arkansas State? Or LSU did it with Tulane? Or Tennessee did it with Memphis?

Would any of those match ups, in your opinion, elevate the BCS program?

I generally get your point, but trying to compare CU to Ohio State, Tennessee, LSU and Arkansas is a very large stretch. CU is simply not in that class. Also, I am pretty sure you the number of games West Virginia, Syracuse, Boston College and Syracuse have played against those opponents is small. Which completely ignores how far back the series between CSU and CU stretches.

 

[dio]

The 'rivalry' will end when RG kills this game, and when CU plays meaningful games in the P12

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[Highlander]

That was a glorious five years if I am counting right.

LOL (87-92)

 

[Highlander]

You do understand the era of CU football I've grown up with, right? Sure I remember the 2001 NU game, but my memories prior to the 2005 Big 12 CCG are few. Most of my memories are from 2006 and on, that is a lot of bad memories. My era of fans and students have only witnessed ****ty football and a drummed up rivalry with CSU. The douches who would try to talk **** in high school who were CSU fans added to that, but if CU was good in football this era I wouldn't have given a damn about them.

Then how in hell are you such a hopeless optimist?

 

[Quattro]

Then how in hell are you such a hopeless optimist?

I prefer to look on the positive side of things

 

[Deleted member 807]

I generally get your point, but trying to compare CU to Ohio State, Tennessee, LSU and Arkansas is a very large stretch. CU is simply not in that class. Also, I am pretty sure you the number of games West Virginia, Syracuse, Boston College and Syracuse have played against those opponents is small. Which completely ignores how far back the series between CSU and CU stretches.

Team 1 and team 2 both BCS schools and flagship universities for their respective states. You claim that it would be a large stretch to put one university in the same class as the other.

Please explain your logic when asserting it is a large stretch to compare Team 1 and 2.

Team 1
All-time record 682–464–40 (.592)
Postseason bowl record13–23–3 (.372)
Claimed national titles1
Conference titles13
Heisman winners0
Consensus All-Americans23


Team 2
All-time record 675–463–36 (.590)
Postseason bowl record12–16 (.429)
Claimed national titles 1
Conference titles 26
Division titles 4
Heisman winners 1
Consensus All-Americans 30

Seems to me that team 1 and team 2 are very much in the same class.

 

[Darth Snow]

Arkansas is a very comparable team to CU.

 

[Buffnik]

I generally get your point, but trying to compare CU to Ohio State, Tennessee, LSU and Arkansas is a very large stretch. CU is simply not in that class. Also, I am pretty sure you the number of games West Virginia, Syracuse, Boston College and Syracuse have played against those opponents is small. Which completely ignores how far back the series between CSU and CU stretches.

The fact that you said Arkansas being comparable to CU "is a very large stretch" says a lot about a misconception of where CU is on the college football landscape. There's too much tearing down of CU among the CSU fan base and there seems to be a view that's not based in reality.

Arkansas is an excellent football program with a lot of history. Here's a quick comparison with Colorado:

	Arkansas	Colorado
All-Time Wins	685 (#22)	679 (#24)
All-Time Win %	.58988 (#28)	.58769 (#29)
National Titles	1 (1964)	1 (1990)
Conference Titles	13	26
Consensus All-Americans	23	30
Heisman Trophy Winners	0	1
Other National Player Awards	6	9

That may be the most similar program to Colorado there is. (As a side note, we both also walked away from a conference affiliation with Texas so I've got extra respect for the Razorbacks.)

Syracuse's success is right there with both of us, too. Better on some measures. The old Eastern independents never get respect outside of their region, but that's another story.

Anyway, I do agree that there is a lot of history. Similar to the Stanford-SJSU series. But people in CO care more about the CU-CSU series than folks in the Bay Area care about that one. So that is a consideration.

In my consideration, CU has moved on from other historical connections such as we had with the Big 8 teams. There is recent precedent that says history is not what should drive these decisions. CU has to do what is best for its program in the here and now. Your post only underscored for me how much the CSU link diminishes the perception of CU.

 

[Darth Snow]

Yup, Csquared pretty much cemented that CU needs to end this series with that statement. Even the smart CSU fans tear down CU because of it.

 

[Quattro]

CU and UDub are similar historically as well

 

[Dark Bohner]

Team 1 and team 2 both BCS schools and flagship universities for their respective states. You claim that it would be a large stretch to put one university in the same class as the other.

Please explain your logic when asserting it is a large stretch to compare Team 1 and 2.

Team 1
All-time record 682–464–40 (.592)
Postseason bowl record13–23–3 (.372)
Claimed national titles1
Conference titles13
Heisman winners0
Consensus All-Americans23


Team 2
All-time record 675–463–36 (.590)
Postseason bowl record12–16 (.429)
Claimed national titles 1
Conference titles 26
Division titles 4
Heisman winners 1
Consensus All-Americans 30

Seems to me that team 1 and team 2 are very much in the same class.

Boom!

 

[CUAviator]

...

 

[CUAviator]

The bolded statement is a complete bald faced lie which you have been called out on numerous times, but still attempt to state as a fact over and over again. Just stop already. Its embarrassing at this point.

CSU has multiple occassions when they were successful of being the lowest rated bowl game not including a Sun Belt team. Their TV rating when on ESPN, etc. have also been terrible. Their average home attendance in the glory years of Sonny didn't break 30k and now is pushing below 20k.

The support, financially and otherwise simply isn't there. They can't generate enough paying eyes to justify inclusion into a major conference and the payout that would generate.

Here are the numbers from CSU.

I am not going to waste my time to see if all the numbers match with the NCAA - but they have 2006 average at 24,183.



Regardless, CSU is not getting a P5 invite. With or without a stadium. And if Stryker or someone else doesn't come in with a monster donation, issuing bonds for half or more than half of that thing based on projections that would make fantasy land blush - is going to be a huge mistake. I will take no pleasure in the story about how the University and the State got stuck with the bill.

I'm not exactly sure what the argument is here, or exactly when Lubick was the head coach, but using the years 98-05 and looking at this chart - NO, CSU did not average over 30k for that time span, which would make MTNBuff's statement correct. Using a grasp of the English language, he did not say they didn't avg over 30k in any given year, he said that during the glory YEARS of Lubick's tenure, they didn't avg over 30k (which one May or may not know is the total attendance of all years, divided by number of years).




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[CUAviator]

I generally get your point, but trying to compare CU to Ohio State, Tennessee, LSU and Arkansas is a very large stretch. CU is simply not in that class. Also, I am pretty sure you the number of games West Virginia, Syracuse, Boston College and Syracuse have played against those opponents is small. Which completely ignores how far back the series between CSU and CU stretches.

Why is that comparison a stretch? In all-time wins:
LSU - #15
Arkansas - #26
Florida (for comparison purposes) - #28
CU - #30 (#25 all-time win percentage)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_football_teams_by_wins

http://www.collegefootballresearch.com/winpercent/


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[CUAviator]

This is confirmation of the fall of CU football. From 87-02 (my glorious 5 years), we played CSU in the first 3 years and beat them without much thought to it - not blow outs, but I have no memory of drama when compared to the Big 8 games.

They fact that CSU attends our home games does not make the game important for CU - it makes it important for them.

If it is important to you, you need a serious attitude adjustment. Just sayin'

From 87-02 (my glorious 5 years)

???


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[dply]

After spending Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday morning in the hospital, I went to Shpongle at Red Rocks Saturday night. I almost didn't go because of the weather and the fact that I wasn't in the mood for a concert. It was the perfect escape though and I am so glad I went. (I also forgot the tickets were a chirstmas gift from my wife and I kind of offended her when I was going to cancel it.)

Anyways, during the concert I had a CSU fan come up to me (in my CU hoodie) and just start ripping on CU. Does that school teach hatred for CU in their orientation or something? But seriously, **** that guy. I was finally happy and Douchebag McGee has to come and drum up some drama. **** em.

 

[DrunkRalphie]

After spending Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday morning in the hospital, I went to Shpongle at Red Rocks Saturday night. I almost didn't go because of the weather and the fact that I wasn't in the mood for a concert. It was the perfect escape though and I am so glad I went. (I also forgot the tickets were a chirstmas gift from my wife and I kind of offended her when I was going to cancel it.)

Anyways, during the concert I had a CSU fan come up to me (in my CU hoodie) and just start ripping on CU. Does that school teach hatred from CU in their orientation or something? But seriously, **** that guy. I was finally happy and Douchebag McGee has to come and drum up some drama. **** em.

I have on several occasions had CSU fans come up to me and start talking **** completely unsolicited and without provocation. It's utterly bizarre and something I chalk up to a profound sense of insecurity.

 

[Dark Bohner]

I have on several occasions had CSU fans come up to me and start talking **** completely unsolicited and without provocation. It's utterly bizarre and something I chalk up to a profound sense of insecurity.

Agreed. Anybody that I know that graduated from CSU and follows sports will take every available opportunity to talk trash even when CU has scoreboard in every major sport. Such as this weekend, one guy was bragging about how CSU had a guy drafted higher than PRich. Woopty doo! You got a higher draft pick than CU for the first time in forever! Forget the fact the CU beat CSU on the field by two touchdowns and that guy that was drafted lower completely embarrassed your defense all day.

You just kind of have to shake your head.

 

[tante]

After spending Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday morning in the hospital, I went to Shpongle at Red Rocks Saturday night. I almost didn't go because of the weather and the fact that I wasn't in the mood for a concert. It was the perfect escape though and I am so glad I went. (I also forgot the tickets were a chirstmas gift from my wife and I kind of offended her when I was going to cancel it.)

Anyways, during the concert I had a CSU fan come up to me (in my CU hoodie) and just start ripping on CU. Does that school teach hatred for CU in their orientation or something? But seriously, **** that guy. I was finally happy and Douchebag McGee has to come and drum up some drama. **** em.

I hope you bought your beer from a different vendor.

 

[dply]

I hope you bought your beer from a different vendor.

You apologize for insulting this man right now!

I'm not even lying. That is the guy I always buy my beer from. Great dude.