It appears that Woody Paige is a avid reader of AllBuffs

[Mick Ronson]

Carolina:

For conference balance, you went straight to the top when discussing the Big 12. And that's the problem. USC is definitely the top dog in the Pac, but other programs also have their moments/runs. Stanford probably the least likely due to academic constraints, but they've been a top 25 team and also fielded some great basketball programs (while being a powerhouse AD when evaluated across the board). The Pac does not have programs like Iowa State and Baylor.

i respectfully don't agree with the claim that the Pac 10 is stronger top to bottom. but, we talked about this a week or so ago if i recall and no need to rehash. 10 of the 12 big XII teams have played in either a BCS Bowl, the Cotton Bowl or the Holiday Bowl. 6 Big XII teams have played in a BCS bowl with Tech, Missouri, and OSU all one win away in each of the last 3 years. the Holiday Bowl, prior to last years changes, pitted the Big XII #3 (usually #4 if there were 2 BCS bids) against the Pac #2. the way you focus on Baylor and ISU is simply the inverse of Carolina's focus on the top (as you say). you bring up WSU as the "doormat" but Stanford, UCLA, OSU and UW have all been consistently no better than .500 and mostly below teams for most the last decade. what Wazzou did 7-8 years ago isn't a convincing generalization from a particular point to me.

i agree whole-heartedly with your second point (not quoted here) abotu time-zones and making the move to the Pac if possible.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Keep in mind the Pac 10 plays an extra conference game. That means those teams get to play less pansies and dont get to schedule 8 homes games like some Big 12 schools. Without a conference championship game they are less likely to get two BCS bids as well.

 

[Liver]

the p10 has done pretty well head to head against other bcs teams, especially in bowl games.

they also put a ton of players into the league.

i think they get a bad rap for not being a tough league and not being as good as the b12, for example.

i think the sec is clearly the best conference from a talent and competitiveness perspective, but i do not aspire to be like them in any case. the b10 certainly can't hang with either the p10 or sec, especially in big games. i'd say the b10 is the most overrated of the 4 biggies (sec, b12, p10, b10).

the p10's biggest problem isn't fact (imho), it is perception... the east coast media bias, coupled with the fact they don't see a lot of west coast games = an assumption that the p10 is soft. hell, those fools in the media along the east coast actually believe penn state and teams like wvu and rutgers are good. they aren't. if penn state had to play in the b12 or p10, it would struggle mightily. if it played in the sec, it wouldn't have a winning conf. record most years.

the p10 has shown in ooc games and bowl games that it can hang with anyone, despite all the tired cliches about being soft. how soft was oregon when they effin' destroyed our Buffs in 2001 (and that was a damned good CU team, too)?

 

[Johnny Juzang]

the p10 has done pretty well head to head against other bcs teams, especially in bowl games.

they also put a ton of players into the league.

i think they get a bad rap for not being a tough league and not being as good as the b12, for example.

i think the sec is clearly the best conference from a talent and competitiveness perspective, but i do not aspire to be like them in any case. the b10 certainly can't hang with either the p10 or sec, especially in big games. i'd say the b10 is the most overrated of the 4 biggies (sec, b12, p10, b10).

the p10's biggest problem isn't fact (imho), it is perception... the east coast media bias, coupled with the fact they don't see a lot of west coast games = an assumption that the p10 is soft. hell, those fools in the media along the east coast actually believe penn state and teams like wvu and rutgers are good. they aren't. if penn state had to play in the b12 or p10, it would struggle mightily. if it played in the sec, it wouldn't have a winning conf. record most years.

the p10 has shown in ooc games and bowl games that it can hang with anyone, despite all the tired cliches about being soft. how soft was oregon when they effin' destroyed our Buffs in 2001 (and that was a damned good CU team, too)?

Good enough to hang 62 and pound the hell out of then #1 Nuhbraska and then go to Texas and beat them at home.

 

[Buffsfan09]

I agree 110% with Woody on this...I do not want to join the Michelob Ultra 12-Pac Conference!! Big 12 is big time, PAC-10/12 is a step down, no question about it.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Maybe it's because I live on Pac 10 country, but I really don't see the Pac 10 as an inferior conference at all. Hell, from top to bottom I think it's better than most conferences. They had a bad postseason this last year, but the year before that didn't they go undefeated in bowl play? Not to mention USC would be right there with Florida if you want to talk about the best college football team of the last decade. UCLA is down, but they won't be forever. Washington is a lot like us, some pretty rich history with some not so great coaching hires as of recent. ASU has it's moments, Arizona might become decent. The Oregon schools are both pretty set up to have some nice runs. WSU is by far the worst team and they still have done a lot more than most teams in the country in the last 15 years.

 

[Buffnik]

I agree 110% with Woody on this...I do not want to join the Michelob Ultra 12-Pac Conference!! Big 12 is big time, PAC-10/12 is a step down, no question about it.

Are you just talking about football?

I don't think anyone can touch the Big 12 at the top. I don't think any other conference has 3 teams among the all-time top 10 (Oklahoma, Nebraska and Texas).

Here are how the conferences stack up on the ESPN All-Time Prestige rankings of its programs (prior to 2009 season). I'm going to leave #22 CU out of the Big 12 for the comparison so that the Buffs don't skew things in the Big 12's favor:

Big 12
1. Oklahoma
5. Nebraska
7. Texas
20. Texas A&M
36. Missouri
42. Texas Tech
63. Baylor
65. Oklahoma State
69. Kansas
76. Kansas State
114. Iowa State

Mean Average = 45.3
Median Average = 42

If Missouri leaves for Big 10 (before adding new program):
Mean Average = 46.2
Median Average = 52.5

Pac 10
2. USC
16. UCLA
17. Washington
28. Arizona State
44. California
45 Stanford
53. Oregon
56. Oregon State
60. Arizona
77. Washington State

Mean Average = 40.8
Median Average = 44.5

If you include Utah (#43 and likely to come with CU):
Mean Average = 41
Median Average = 44

*************************

Obviously this is just 1 way of looking at it and there are other ways of comparing the conferences for football (some surely better than what I just did). From this perspective: PAC has only 1 elite program instead of 3 for the Big 12, but it's also got only 2 programs ranked 60 or below while the Big 12 has 5 in that category. Also, the PAC has 2 programs in the 2nd tier (all-time great and top 25, but not elite level) with UCLA and Washington, while the Big 12 only has 1 with TAMU if we don't include CU.

I guess what I'd argue based on this data is that the conferences look pretty equivalent from a "prestige of its programs" standpoint. Slight prestige edge to whichever conference has Colorado in it.

As an aside: Big 12 could actually lose both CU and Mizzou (#22 and #36) without taking a hit to its prestige if it replaced with #25 BYU and #31 TCU (or even #47 Houston). I think that's what Texas is thinking, fwiw, when they said they'd stick with the Big 12 and replace the teams they lost. Move OU and OSU to the North, add TCU and Houston, have a South that UT more easily dominates, and set up an annual cross-division game like the SEC model so that UT and OU meet in the Red River Rivalry every year with a likely rematch in the Big 12 Championship. For UT, that means even more money, since they would get the championship game tv cash just about every year.

 

[buffaholic]

So when is the spring game?

 

[Darian3Hagan]

So when is the spring game?

The last spring game in the Big 12 conference?

 

[Idot Buff]

The last spring game in the Big 12 conference?

What? Even if the Buffs bolt for the PAC-12, it won't be for 2 years, correct?

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Obviously anything is possible but I was just playing around.

 

[Mick Ronson]

Slight prestige edge to whichever conference has Colorado in it.
.

that goes without saying. boo ya.

interesting statistical comparison, though. i still think right now, today....the XII has been stronger than the Pac. I will agree that the Pac is usually underrated. like others have noted....*every single serious Pac 10 football fan* i've ever met has railed endlessly about how 1. the east coast media peeps continually downgrade them since the sports writers are usually too drunk or asleep or both to properly watch games since their alma mater (if they have one) has already played and 2. that the Big 10/Big 8 or XII/SEC (groan) people think the Pac teams are basically the Beach Boys goofing around and not playing defense when they aren't having a luau or smoking the reefer. and also cheating by using that sneaky forward pass (more circa the 80's-90's, but still SEC fan who is mos def stuck in the 80's or 90's).