It's this kind of stuff that makes me like MacIntyre

[Deleted member 807]

I am looking at the CU coaching job from the perspective of a healthcare model following an accident.

The first responder does the triage.
Then you get an ER doctor that stabilizes the patient. Then the patient is handed over to the surgeons that deal with reconstructing and removing pathogens. Finally you are handed back to a general practitioner who manages rehab and ongoing general health.

As a patient, you do not want the same doctor to handle all of these different roles.

MacIntyre was hired as a turn-around artist. Using this doctor metaphor, Mac is the ER doc who is stabilizing the program.

At some point soon CU needs a specialist who can recruit with surgical precision in recruiting hotbeds. This person needs to be hired for having a network/Rolodex with highschool coaches and a staff of recruiters who know how to identify a stud prospect and then charm the family into getting a bunch of football unicorns to come to Boulder.

I see Art Briles as the quintessential prototype as a recruiting specialist. Every HS coach in Texas will take a call from Art. How else could players willfully agree to play ball in the ****hole that is Waco? (By no means is this an endorsement of Briles moral character following the inexcusable Sam Ukwuachu rape coverup).

No matter how long CU gives Mac, he simply will not out recruit Briles in Texas. We need someone who can out recruit 9 out of 12 other PAC12 coaches in Southern Cal and lock the borders down in Colorado. I just don't see how MacIntyre will become that man given his track record.

I thank MacIntyre for saving the program from death. But I don't think he is the person who has the connections and gravity to recruit at the level CU needs to take things to the next level.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

I am looking at the CU coaching job from the perspective of a healthcare model following an accident.

The first responder does the triage.
Then you get an ER doctor that stabilizes the patient. Then the patient is handed over to the surgeons, who deal with reconstructing and removing pathogens. Finally you are handed back to a general practitioner who manages rehab and ongoing general health.

As a patient, you do not want the same doctor to handle all of these different roles.

MacIntyre was hired as a turn-around artist. Using this doctor metaphor, Mac is the ER doc who is stabilizing the program.

At some point CU needs a specialist who can recruit with surgical precision in recruiting hotbeds. This person needs to be hired for having a network/Rolodex with highschool coaches and networks of recruiters who know who is a stud and is able to charm the family into coming to Boulder.

I see Art Briles as the quintessential prototype as a recruiting specialist. Every HS coach in Texas will take a call from Art. How else could players willfully agree to play ball in the ****hole that is Waco? (By no means is this an endorsement of Briles moral character following the inexcusable Sam Ukwuachu rape coverup).

No matter how long CU gives Mac, he simply will not out recruit Briles in Texas. We need someone who can out recruit 9 out of 12 other PAC12 coaches in Los Angeles and Southern Cal and lock the borders down in Colorado. I just don't see how MacIntyre will be that man given his history.

I thank MacIntyre for saving the program from death. But I don't think he has the background to recruit at the level CU needs to take things to the next level.

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree....only in that it is yet unproven one way or the other.
Briles turned a perennial ****ty team into a winner....so is he both? or did he turn the corner and that made it easier for him to attract better talent? He had a system and was very connected to TX high school coaches that felt they had a vested interest in him. But Briles (as you mention) has some things about him that would be intolerable to me as the HC of CU.
I think, that MM can do both.....the RIGHT way, much like McCartney did....but he has to win first.

 

[BUFFS14]

No matter how long CU gives Mac, he simply will not out recruit Briles in Texas. We need someone who can out recruit 9 out of 12 other PAC12 coaches in Los Angeles and Southern Cal and lock the borders down in Colorado. I just don't see how MacIntyre will be that man given his history.

I thank MacIntyre for saving the program from death. But I don't think he has the background to recruit at the level CU needs to take things to the next level.

I kind of disagree, we don't know how he can recruit with a program on the rise and the new facilities. His recruiting has been questionable so far,(Although I like most of the current commitments) but what 17 year old kid who thinks he is awesome would want to come here and get his teeth kicked in every week. I believe this is changing, you can walk into So Cal or Texas and tell these kids you want to play or sit for 4 years until you get your turn at any position......get them to come for a visit, see what we have to offer and we can turn this ship around.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I am looking at the CU coaching job from the perspective of a healthcare model following an accident.

The first responder does the triage.
Then you get an ER doctor that stabilizes the patient. Then the patient is handed over to the surgeons, who deal with reconstructing and removing pathogens. Finally you are handed back to a general practitioner who manages rehab and ongoing general health.

As a patient, you do not want the same doctor to handle all of these different roles.

MacIntyre was hired as a turn-around artist. Using this doctor metaphor, Mac is the ER doc who is stabilizing the program.

At some point CU needs a specialist who can recruit with surgical precision in recruiting hotbeds. This person needs to be hired for having a network/Rolodex with highschool coaches and networks of recruiters who know who is a stud and is able to charm the family into coming to Boulder.

I see Art Briles as the quintessential prototype as a recruiting specialist. Every HS coach in Texas will take a call from Art. How else could players willfully agree to play ball in the ****hole that is Waco? (By no means is this an endorsement of Briles moral character following the inexcusable Sam Ukwuachu rape coverup).

No matter how long CU gives Mac, he simply will not out recruit Briles in Texas. We need someone who can out recruit 9 out of 12 other PAC12 coaches in Los Angeles and Southern Cal and lock the borders down in Colorado. I just don't see how MacIntyre will be that man given his history.

I thank MacIntyre for saving the program from death. But I don't think he has the background to recruit at the level CU needs to take things to the next level.

These analogies, tho. I like them. The one about progress being relative comparing the program to your colleague's handicapped son was gold!

As it relates to this one, what if MM is the President of a new hospital and he is slowly weeding out the bad ER doctors, surgeons and general practitioners, in favor of ones with years of experience and proven track records of success?

He dropped some dead weight and brought in some surgical recruiters who definitely know how to coach and he could very well be headed for similar changes on the other side of the ball.

The real issue is how much time does the President get to make all these changes and get the hospital up and running as efficiently as the locals want?

 

[BorrachoBuff]

These analogies, tho. I like them. The one about progress being relative comparing the program to your colleague's handicapped son was gold!

As it relates to this one, what if MM is the President of a new hospital and he is slowly weeding out the bad ER doctors, surgeons and general practitioners, in favor of ones with years of experience and proven track records of success?

He dropped some dead weight and brought in some surgical recruiters who definitely know how to coach and he could very well be headed for similar changes on the other side of the ball.

The real issue is how much time does the President get to make all these changes and get the hospital up and running as efficiently as the locals want?

It is all relative. Our barometer for progress should be the relative success of our peers. I look at Washington State; they are sitting at 5-2 right now after losing to Sacramento State in week 1. WSU has seemingly improved more in 8 weeks weeks than CU has in the last 8 years! I fully recognize that our program has been "burned to the ground" multiple times in the last decade, but I firmly believe that there are alot of good coaches out there that could turn this ship around much faster then the current regime. Washington State did what they had to do, and hired a proven coach in Mike Leach. Yea, he's a goofball Pirate who might have Asberger's, but he knows how to WIN with limited talent/resources.

 

[Deleted member 807]

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree....only in that it is yet unproven one way or the other.
Briles turned a perennial ****ty team into a winner....so is he both? or did he turn the corner and that made it easier for him to attract better talent? He had a system and was very connected to TX high school coaches that felt they had a vested interest in him. But Briles (as you mention) has some things about him that would be intolerable to me as the HC of CU.
I think, that MM can do both.....the RIGHT way, much like McCartney did....but he has to win first.

I agree the character of Briles took a fatal hit after Sam Ukwuachu's rape conviction, at least so far as being considered as a coaching option at any public school that actually tries to follow the spirit and letter of NCAA compliance.

That said, you cannot deny Art Brile's pedigree in Texas football as a HS coach and in college at Cougar High as a major contributing factor to Baylor's success. Briles snagged RG3 and **** Bailer was off to the races.

MacIntyre landed David Fales at SJSU after David bounced around various campuses. I am waiting to see MacIntyre duplicate his Fales fortune at CU. Thus far, Sefo is no Fales.

In my opinion, any parallels between MacIntyre and the extension McCartney is lazy and inappropriate. This is not the 1980s.

If you've ever heard Bill McCartney speak, you recognize really fast that his charisma is off the charts. There is no way Mike can captivate a room like Bill can/could.

It's unfair to compare recruiting skills between the two. It's unfair to compare the times. No social media existed back then. Different recruiting rules were in place. TV coverage was different.

Bottom line is that MacIntyre appears unlikely to out recruit Helfrich, Mora, Graham, Rich Rod, Shaw, Dy.kes, Petterson, Whittingham and whoever USC hires in California in the foreseeable future. A signature win in the next few weeks wouldn't hurt. But when it comes to a recruiting ceiling, we can only expect so much from a MWC pedigree.

Leavitt is more like Bill McCartney when it comes to charisma. Jim also has inroads in Florida that are paying off this recruiting cycle. I'm glad to have Florida talent coming to Boulder. But at some point, you have to recruit at a high level inside the P12 footprint to be elite inside the P12 conference.

If Mike is able to step up his recruiting game and become more effective, I'd be curious to hear what will be different than what he's doing now.

I really hope Montez will be in the same league as Fales. Otherwise if Mac gets a year 4 and 5, the progress could be glacial.

 

[MtnBuff]

No coach can be great or even good at everything. Some kill it in recruitng, some are organizers and leaders, some are better at preparing a team for a season and for individual games.

MacIntyre isn't a dynamic recruiter. Frankly I don't think he needs to be.

What he has to do is make up for his weaknesses in selecting his staff. The addition of Leavitt and Tomkins has shown that the right guys can recruit to CU. All of the sudden we have recruits from a state we haven't had a lot of success in who have offer list more impressive that some of our recent entire classes have had. I don't think the entire staff has to be great recruiters but they all have to at least pull their weight and we do need at least a couple more difference makers.

I am interested to see what if any staff changes M2 makes after LOI day. That will tell me a lot about how much longer he is with the program and how successfull we will be.

 

[Deleted member 807]

These analogies, tho. I like them. The one about progress being relative comparing the program to your colleague's handicapped son was gold!

As it relates to this one, what if MM is the President of a new hospital and he is slowly weeding out the bad ER doctors, surgeons and general practitioners, in favor of ones with years of experience and proven track records of success?

He dropped some dead weight and brought in some surgical recruiters who definitely know how to coach and he could very well be headed for similar changes on the other side of the ball.

The real issue is how much time does the President get to make all these changes and get the hospital up and running as efficiently as the locals want?

RG is the president.
The bad ER doctors were MM hires.
MM put a premium on his SJSU crew and took a gamble that loyalty and continuity was more important that finding recruiting sharpshooters.
That strategy has been exposed and is a liability.

If MM gets a year 4 and 5, there needs to be an overhaul in MM's approach to recruiting. Jimmies and Joes for the win.

 

[BlackNGold]

I have no doubt that Coach Mac is a wonderful guy. I tell you someone else who was a wonderful guy, Mike Bohn.

Anyone who has owned or ran a business knows that reward or terminate employees based upon performance.

 

[Buffnik]

I have no doubt that Coach Mac is a wonderful guy. I tell you someone else who was a wonderful guy, Mike Bohn.

Anyone who has owned or ran a business knows that reward or terminate employees based upon performance.

You'll get no argument from me. My OP wasn't arguing against that, just highlighting this reminder that came through loud and clear in his presser of why I think he's a wonderful guy and that I hope hard for success with a guy like that.

I don't think anyone is saying that he should be retained if he isn't able to get the job done because he's a good man. However, I think most of us would be happier if we saw CU return to excellence with a guy we'd want our kids playing for.

 

[DBT]

I have no doubt that Coach Mac is a wonderful guy. I tell you someone else who was a wonderful guy, Mike Bohn.

Anyone who has owned or ran a business knows that reward or terminate employees based upon performance.

And if he doesn't perform, he will have to move on. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Correct?

 

[skibum]

MM is not a dynamic recruiter. That's not even debatable at this point. If he were, recruiting would have looked better the past couple years.

Hopefully his experience with new, great recruiting assistants last year emboldens him to add a few more to the staff this year - and I don't think you wait until after LOI day - you pull the trigger during the early January dead period. [If we're shedding recruiting dead weight, presumably we wouldn't be losing any coaches that are "key" to the better guys in this class].

If he stays pat with his staff this off-season, I think it's a problem. You can't have that large 2017 class be a dud - if it is, we'll be hovering around .500 for several years. And if you want that 2017 class to be great, you have to bring those dynamic recruiters in this winter, not next.

 

[BuffLuke80]

And if he doesn't perform, he will have to move on. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Correct?

I know I'm not, it's a cutthroat business. I don't envy anybody that has to hire and fire people. I've done it and it sucked very bad especially family men. Part of the job unfortunately.

 

[pcbuff]

It is all relative. Our barometer for progress should be the relative success of our peers. I look at Washington State; they are sitting at 5-2 right now after losing to Sacramento State in week 1. WSU has seemingly improved more in 8 weeks weeks than CU has in the last 8 years! I fully recognize that our program has been "burned to the ground" multiple times in the last decade, but I firmly believe that there are alot of good coaches out there that could turn this ship around much faster then the current regime. Washington State did what they had to do, and hired a proven coach in Mike Leach. Yea, he's a goofball Pirate who might have Asberger's, but he knows how to WIN with limited talent/resources.

I don't like the Pirates O for Boulder. That said, I do like the cache of his name for recruiting. When Bohn struck out on his first choices, he ended with a guy who was a good coach on the rise. He had no P 5 level recruiting ties and certainly no hot name value to make him exciting to stud recruits. His loyalty to his Staff was great, but misguided. It is his biggest mis step so far.

 

[aik]

All a HC might do is scream over his headset, "Get Lindsay back in the damn game and feed him the damn rock!"

Maybe MacIntyre should be doing that.

 

[8Jah]

If MM is a good guy and better than decent coach then we are better off waiting it out.

All you have to do is wait a year or two and some of the other Pac12 teams will cycle down...some programs will implode. May already be happening at Arizona and Oregon. Only immune team is USC.

 

[somebody]

If MM is a good guy and better than decent coach then we are better off waiting it out.

All you have to do is wait a year or two and some of the other Pac12 teams will cycle down...some programs will implode. May already be happening at Arizona and Oregon. Only immune team is USC.

SJSU would agree with that, but I don't think we've seen evidence of it yet. Witness the loss at Hawaii and the failure to finish against OU and Who of A.

 

[DBT]

I doubt if most recruits give a rat's ass how great a guy the coach is. They are all "great" guys prior to the first Wednesday in February. Now, the kid's mom may care. The 4/5 star kids, and probably their parents, care, mainly, about which coach/program gives them the best chance to succeed at football. I doubt if, especially, the recruits consider which coach will care about him the most and make him a better person.

 

[slider]

Meh. Just win.

 

[DBT]

Meh. Just win.

And there's that.

 

[TDbuff]

Maybe MacIntyre should be doing that.

Another hole in the coaching staff. Our "ahead of the game" TE/RB position coach we pay 6 figures, that screws our recruiting and coaching at both positions.

Good thing this idea left room for Neinas.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

I agree the character of Briles took a fatal hit after Sam Ukwuachu's rape conviction, at least so far as being considered as a coaching option at any public school that actually tries to follow the spirit and letter of NCAA compliance.

That said, you cannot deny Art Brile's pedigree in Texas football as a HS coach and in college at Cougar High as a major contributing factor to Baylor's success. Briles snagged RG3 and **** Bailer was off to the races.

MacIntyre landed David Fales at SJSU after David bounced around various campuses. I am waiting to see MacIntyre duplicate his Fales fortune at CU. Thus far, Sefo is no Fales.

In my opinion, any parallels between MacIntyre and the extension McCartney is lazy and inappropriate. This is not the 1980s.

If you've ever heard Bill McCartney speak, you recognize really fast that his charisma is off the charts. There is no way Mike can captivate a room like Bill can/could.

It's unfair to compare recruiting skills between the two. It's unfair to compare the times. No social media existed back then. Different recruiting rules were in place. TV coverage was different.

Bottom line is that MacIntyre appears unlikely to out recruit Helfrich, Mora, Graham, Rich Rod, Shaw, Dy.kes, Petterson, Whittingham and whoever USC hires in California in the foreseeable future. A signature win in the next few weeks wouldn't hurt. But when it comes to a recruiting ceiling, we can only expect so much from a MWC pedigree.

Leavitt is more like Bill McCartney when it comes to charisma. Jim also has inroads in Florida that are paying off this recruiting cycle. I'm glad to have Florida talent coming to Boulder. But at some point, you have to recruit at a high level inside the P12 footprint to be elite inside the P12 conference.

If Mike is able to step up his recruiting game and become more effective, I'd be curious to hear what will be different than what he's doing now.

I really hope Montez will be in the same league as Fales. Otherwise if Mac gets a year 4 and 5, the progress could be glacial.

I think you're misconstruing my point.....which is that MM is building a foundation of continuity, and a different culture, that is something that has been lacking since Barnett. Freshman and sophomores can't consistently (read as being the norm) compete at the P5 level....and we're moving away from that for the first time in recent history. Something which MM has achieved by developing a deep relationship with his players which is also something that McCartney was great at, and it developed a foundation and culture that lasted in Dal Ward/Locker room for years after his departure. That is the only comparison that could be made between the two IMO (And yes, I have heard McCartney speak many a time and know him, and yes times are different).

The interesting thing to me is that people (I'm not saying you are doing this) somehow believe that a "dynamic" recruiter could have turned this ship years ago....and could do it instantly today, as if ignoring how ****ing terrible we've represented ourselves as a program, and the impact that has on recruits. The interesting thing about McCartney that no one discusses, is that he had an assistant or two that cut corners (to be kind) when we turned it around and put this program at real risk....Those assistants got recruits in the door, and those players paid HUGE dividends. It was not all McCartney charisma, and fire behind those recruiting results. McCartney subsequently found out about what they were doing and let them go and wouldn't associate with them again. A truth that remains today, is that if you get a so called "dynamic recruiter" that is all of a sudden getting a lot of highly recruited players to come to a perennial doormat, with crappy facilities, I'd be willing to bet significant money that there was measurable cheating behind those recruiting results.

The reality is that 18 year old kids, and their parents, still care a lot about the type of people they're going to be associating with during their college career. To project that all these highly recruited kids only care about getting to the NFL, is selling them and their parents drastically short. They're real people, that generally have values that you share. Sure there are those out there, but those aren't the kids you want....they're talented kids to be sure, but they're not winners. MM is developing a culture that is highly attractive to kids and their parents....which will pay HUGE dividends on the recruiting front....IF we can start winning.

 

[dpnoffs]

Very well said and add what Mtn said that if doing it the right way can't work then maybe I need to find a different sport to follow.

 

[Deleted member 807]

@Bill Cody
Good post and nice job clarifying your point.

I'd point out that CU fans and the CU culture puts a premium on the Head Coach being the figurehead that sets the tone and delivers the culture. Certainly Bill McCartney was and to some degree still is the cornerstone of CU faith. It was McCartney who famously said, "The pride and tradition of the Colorado Buffaloes shall not be entrusted to the timid or the weak."

But fanbases tend to be myopic and look to their own past before seeking out wisdom from other successful programs.

Boise State hasn't become successful because of Houston Nutt or Dick Koetter or Dan Hawkins or Chris Peterson. Boise State's success came from AD Gene Bleymaier and Curt Aspey and campus leadership who created an environment for the Broncos to turn people's heads. The institution supports the coaches, which in turn allows coaches to prevail.

DeLoss Dodds and Bill Powers did a good job plowing the way for the success of Mac Brown up until 4-5 years ago. Charley Stong can't do what Mac Brown did because of a toxic situation between AD, president, and boosters.

The point is that for CU to reclaim past glory, there needs to be leadership from the coach's boss's boss.

When the heart of the football program is a head coach like Bill McCartney (without Gordon Gee), or Joe Paterno, then success can be achieved, but it may be volatile and fleeting.

The desire at CU to "do things right" has been primary to "winning championships." To win championships in the Pac12, you are going to have to out recruit Stanford, USC, ASU, Oregon and the rest. Running a clean ship is just tablestakes. It is not a recruiting strategy.

How many years and what actions need to take place for Coach MacIntyre to be that man?

I fear that loyalty to MacIntyre puts CU in a spin cycle where wins begets recruits that begets wins. As the last three (or dozen) years have proven, this process of building a "do it right" culture could take a while before our OWN fans believe that a scholly from CU is worth more than one from Stanford or USC.

Now that CU has facilities, fantastic conference alligment, an amazing campus, and an AD who had been a game changer, MacIntyre has all the pieces he needs to succeed.

If he can't take advantage of the table that has been set and use CU's assets to recruit better, then someone else deserves that opportunity.

Chido Awuzie deserves to have 20 or 50 teammates surrounding him who are as gifted as he is.

 

[Denver_sc]

It is all relative. Our barometer for progress should be the relative success of our peers. I look at Washington State; they are sitting at 5-2 right now after losing to Sacramento State in week 1. WSU has seemingly improved more in 8 weeks weeks than CU has in the last 8 years! I fully recognize that our program has been "burned to the ground" multiple times in the last decade, but I firmly believe that there are alot of good coaches out there that could turn this ship around much faster then the current regime. Washington State did what they had to do, and hired a proven coach in Mike Leach. Yea, he's a goofball Pirate who might have Asberger's, but he knows how to WIN with limited talent/resources.

PORTLAND State. Go Viks!

 

[aghcsm]

Lots of Mac-love after the conference win. We'll see how everyone's tolerance holds up if the next 5 games go according to consensus outside of Boulder.

Personally I don't have any problem with MM and haven't other than an occasional bonehead move. If he doesn't get 5 years it wasn't a fair evaluation, although I understand that a team regressing at 3 or 4 years may require an immediate change. My only concern now is that there doesn't seem to be the expected degree of improvement from 2014 - many reasons have been suggested, but bottom line is that 2016 needs to show definite improvement - a winning or break-even record.

 

[pcbuff]

If he gets let go, I won't be angry. This is in sharp contrast with the last two staffs where I was furious they weren't let go.

 

[Buffskier]

If he gets let go, I won't be angry. This is in sharp contrast with the last two staffs where I was furious they weren't let go.

this is contradictory... do you mean if he was retained you won't be angry?

 

[pcbuff]

If he stays, I'm okay. (That will also depend on coming games). If he goes, I have more faith in RG to hire a very good replacement, and I'm okay with it. His flaws have not been as glarring, but his strengths have not rendered him irreplaceable.

 

[onealcd]

If he stays, I'm okay. (That will also depend on coming games). If he goes, I have more faith in RG to hire a very good replacement, and I'm okay with it. His flaws have not been as glarring, but his strengths have not rendered him irreplaceable.

Best analysis I have seen in this thread so far.